Absolute shock and desperation over financial aid letter

<p>Beyond the financial considerations - I just can’t imagine what the OP will do all day if she does not find at least a part-time job. She posted on another thread about her concerns over having an empty nest. If her only child is going away to college and she is an unemployed widow - what on earth is she going to do all day?</p>

<p>I would imagine she could find at least a part-time paid job - whether it be as a receptionist, administrative assistant, perhaps a tutor - depending on what she has been doing at the school where she has been volunteering. It’s not as if she was completely out of the workforce. The school position does give her something to list on a resume and is a source of recommendations. I hope that when she returns from the trip she sorts out her daughter’s college situation and then takes a good look at her own life and sets some goals for herself. At 58 - she is too young to simply sit at home and be sad all day.</p>

<p>d like to protect my funds for the next generation if it’s at all possible, and frankly for my own retirement years as well.</p>

<p>Yes, wouldn’t we all.
:slight_smile:
Fact is though we will be fortunate indeed if we can keep from cannibalizing our assets for emergencies to make it to retirement!</p>

<p>*I’m chaperoning my daughter’s class on their senior trip to Italy. We’ll be in Florence and Rome for about 8 days. *
Which would go even faster if we were taking many trips like this ;)</p>

<p>* I just can’t imagine what the OP will do all day if she does not find at least a part-time job. She posted on another thread about her concerns over having an empty nest. If her only child is going away to college and she is an unemployed widow - what on earth is she going to do all day?</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>LOL…</p>

<p>I think she should rent out her house, move to the town the D will be in, and take classes as well. :)</p>

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<p>Its actually pretty reasonable that GT would take this stance. They are, in effect, following what the IRS expects - bartering services in exchange for something of value is considered income, and one is expected to include the value in their income in the year received.</p>

<p>From [Tax</a> Topics - Topic 420 Bartering Income](<a href=“http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html]Tax”>http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html)</p>

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<p>Are you guys still here talking about this? I figured this thread would have died days ago.</p>

<p>Yep. And you’ve just added to it.</p>

<p>stephenandrew, What difference does it make if the thread dies. If people want to talk on a thread what is that to you. If you don’t like a thread, find another one.</p>

<p>As of right now, we should brainstorm a list of questions to ask Fairfielder when she gets back. My question to Fairfielder was the one about asking the FAO on how they arrived at $51,000.</p>

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<p>Are you serious? Based on your prior posts in this thread, I am really afraid you are. </p>

<p>The OP came here for opinions and perhaps a bit advice, if not compassion. She did receive a healthy dose of all of that, mixed with a bit of second-guessing. </p>

<p>She does not have to put herself through the ordeal of answering a list of questions --that we should not be “brainstorming” about. Fwiw, the advice (given here many times) to obtain a better explanation on her fanily’s financial aid is sound. Based on that explanation, she will be in a better position to plan her daughter’s future, be it at G’town, one of the schools with better financial aid, or place that decision on a hiatus via a gap year. </p>

<p>While it’d be nice for the OP to provide a quick update on her success with Georgetown, she really does not have to broadcast every step or feel compelled to address individual questions. Fwiw, she probably shared TMI as it is.</p>

<p>Sorry, I worded that incorrectly. I meant brainstorm a list of questions for Fairlfielder to ask the FAO not brainstorm a list of questions to ask Fairfielder herself.</p>

<p>I think we can all relate to the horror of learning that we were given incorrect information that seemed logical at the time, so we did not question it. Why would the FAO mislead a parent? I am sure I would have believed the person myself under similar circumstances. </p>

<p>Had I learned that our initial FA estimate (although it was mailed to us as a paper document) was wrong AFTER turning down other schools (which we actually DID DO), I would be beside myself! </p>

<p>When the final FA papers came in, they were actually slightly more generous than the estimate (by about $500; there was a book allowance). </p>

<p>I learned a lot from the board and I think this thread is really educational and contains a lesson for many, even if we never find out how the OP resolves her situation. I hope everything works out for her D this Fall.</p>

<p>Should Fairfielder be offered some type of compensation for the wrong information she received?</p>

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<p>I don’t understand this post at all. She’s clearly able to work. Why should people who are working and saving pay for their kids and hers?</p>

<p>“In fact they take a big chunk of your pay if you do get a job and financial aid is reduced accordingly.”</p>

<p>Yes, that’s what they do. What if everybody just quit and walked away?</p>

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<p>That is an assumption you are making with no facts in evidence. The OP had a phone call with someone at a college. A phone call! And that person made some comments based on verbal information obtained from the OP. That person may have made an honest mistake - it happens to all of us. Or, perhaps the OP mis-heard the full response – who among us hasn’t? Or, perhaps (more likely?), that person on the phone was only provided fafsa numbers, which are incomplete for Profile, i.e., missing Social Security benefits, “retirement” assets paying interest, bartering for free private school tuition, etc.</p>

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Actually, I don’t think that is the case, because there is no way that the college financial aid office would have known about the work-for-tuition arrangement from the FAFSA or the standard CSS Profile questions. So unless the OP volunteered that information somewhere along the line, that is unlikely to be the basis for the financial aid calculation that was so upsetting when it arrived last week.</p>

<p>The issue of the attributed income came up when the OP posted a draft of a proposed appeal letter, and posters on this board pointed out that it was not a good idea to volunteer information about that arrangements, because it could be construed as representing an additional $21K of annual income. </p>

<p>I still think that the OP’s problem is more likely due to an attributed asset value, based on the $32K of income from investments. I pointed out the specific document provided by the College Board that encourages financial aid officers to make such an attribution. Based on what the OP told us, the entire $32K would have shown up on the tax return as being “interest” income – and at current bank rates, it is difficult for even large scale investors to earn even 2% in CD or Money Market accounts. Large investors would more likely opt for bonds, but I think the return on bonds would be reported as dividends rather than interest.</p>

<p>The OP has told us that she has “friends” who took her money as a “loan” and are paying 10% interest – but I don’t know whether (a) she provided that information to the university financial aid department, or (b) whether they believe her, even if she did provide that info. The arrangement is odd enough that I would think any financial aid officer looking into it would ask for documentation, including copies of the promissory notes. </p>

<p>So basically the mom has $300K worth of assets - after deducting the FAFSA asset protection allowance ($20,300 for a parent age 58) – that leaves $279,700 in assets, which would add $15,663 to the parent’s EFC. The income protection allowance for a single parent, with one kid in college, is $16,230, so if you subtract that from $32K worth of income, you get about $3500 from income in the EFC. (Formula: $3,190 + 25% of Adjusted available income over $14,500). So, leaving aside other issues, such as the daughter’s social security benefits, we’ve got a parental contribution of over $19,000 just based on the assets & income. </p>

<p>The mom also told us she is a homeowner with $100k of equity - so you can add another $5600 and now the figures inching closer to $25,000. </p>

<p>But she wrote in the first post that “Our FAFSA EFC was under $4,000. They want me to pay $51,000.” </p>

<p>That makes me think that she didn’t list her assets in the FAFSA<em>, so the FAFSA EFC was based on income only. (</em>It’s possible that her current income fell into a range that the online FAFSA would allow her to skip the assets question; or alternatively, it’s possible that she didn’t see the outstanding debt owed to her as an “asset” as it is not money in the bank. In any case, it’s clear that the FAFSA didn’t take into account the $300K). </p>

<p>Based on what the OP told us, we need to figure where the other $26,000 comes from ($51K that the U. wants less the $25K that the assets as stated by OP would yield). Even if the U. was looking at her $21K tuition benefit as income, that wouldn’t raise the EFC by $26K – so it doesn’t answer our question. However, $465,000 in assets WOULD raise the EFC by that amount – and the university could have gotten pretty close to that figure by assuming a 4.2% rate of interest, which would be reasonable in the current market ($32,000/0.042 = $761,905)</p>

<p>The numbers are more complicated because CSS Profile has some differences in their formula in terms of asset & income protection, so my math above only gives a rough outline of the problem. But it is the first place I’d look.</p>

<p>Does the GU FAO look at the FAFSA, the CCS Profile, or both when determining financial aid awards?</p>

<p>The $9000 figure from the phone call would make sense if the mom had called and asked this question: “My FAFSA EFC is less than $4000. I also have home equity of $100K, and no other assets. How would that affect my EFC?” That figure seems to work out just fine if you leave out the $300K that has been distributed among the OP’s kind & cooperative businessmen “friends”. </p>

<p>The reason I am being a little snarky in my language is that while the OP has explained her “investments” in very sympathetic terms – and her explanation may well be true – I think to the eyes of a financial aid professional this looks like moving around assets to hide them from financial aid. I bet it’s fairly common for financial aid officers at private colleges to see upper middle class families who have moved a few hundred thousand dollars to go live with grandma for the duration of the period that their kids are in college. Then when the kids graduate from college, grandma transfers all that money right back to the parents. </p>

<p>So my expectation is that the college financial aid officers are likely to view the businessmen-friend story with some skepticism. And a lot more skepticism if the OP wasn’t forthright with them from the beginning.</p>

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<p>She didn’t receive ANYTHING in writing that was “wrong”. Bottom line…the ONLY thing that matters is what comes in writing.</p>

<p>Chaos…Georgetown is a PROFILE school. They use the FAFSA to determine eligibility for things like the Pell grant only. Then they use the PROFILE info to determine the awarding of THEIR institutional aid. G’town (and any other Profile school) can use ANY FORMULA THEY WANT TO USE to determine how they award their OWN money. G’town uses a high %age of home equity in the equation, and also adds in things like business expenses for the self employed. </p>

<p>Chaos, most of your questions have been answered in this thread already. The question about what forms G’town uses has been answered a number of times.</p>

<p>MIsterK, it may be YOUR opinion or the opinion of the masses that people should work to pay for their kids’ college, but it is not the presumption in any of the financial aid calculators. I don’t know a single school that will put in a work/income requirement for a parent. Now there are schools that do expect the student to work and/or come up with a certain dollar amount towards their college cost, but they do not have that assumption of the parents beyond what the income was from the prior year. That is the biggest chunk of any financial aid formula; the prior year’s income, whether it comes from work or not. But no school is going to expect a non working parent with zero income or low income to go get a job or make more money. In fact, one of the professional judgments that a financial aid counselor is permitted to make is to take into account unemployed parents who lost their jobs that make up the income in the prior year. </p>

<p>If you make $100K in earnings in 2010, schools expect a decent chunk of that to go towards college costs for your kid. If you make zero, they don’t expect you to go to work and come up with the money. They may not give you the money needed to pay for college, but there is no presumption or expectation that you are going to get a job to pay the gap. That is an alternative you may have if you can find a job.</p>

<p>OP stated that the $300K came from a life insurance settlement and the sale of a house. It seems like they could ask for documentation on those numbers if they are questioning how much she really has. Not that that would preclude there being assets from somewhere else…</p>

<p>OP also stated that she could not have MADE $81K for D’s 4 years of HS tuition in her small town (say $26K/year before taxes, etc.?), so I assume those of you who think she should just get a great paying job to cover this $51K think she should move somewhere else?</p>