<p>Holy cr*p! I missed that story on the UNC 4-wheel bomber. Very sad. Was the attacker also a student at UNC?</p>
<p>I've always been pis*ed that Gore is taken seriously by anyone! They should put him on an island. He could start his own Jurasic Park with his DNA.</p>
<p>OK, my name calling quota for the day is filled now. No facts necessary :D</p>
<p>OOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh...I'm telling Savage. :)</p>
<p>Z - thanks for the response & info.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Conservatism is not a party. It is a set of basic principles. Less government intrusion into our lives. Lower taxes. Smaller government. A strong military. A foundation in faith (not a particular faith, but at least the recognition of a Supreme Being), etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And which of these doesn't apply to McCain?? Which of these principles has he sided w/ the Democrats on? </p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, there is disagreement, but when you start talking crap against your own party and supporting the other one, you're no longer being flexible. You're being a traitor.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So, you can't be honest if you disagree with something in your own party? Can't "reach across the aisle" on anything?</p>
<p>I'm well aware that "Conservatism is not a party", but you make it sound like one can't be in the party unless he toes the line and keeps his mouth shut.</p>
<p>I'll give you the example that comes to mind.</p>
<p>During Campaign 2004, John Kerry (Vietnam veteran, incidentally), actually floated the idea of asking John McCain to run with him as his VP candidate.</p>
<p>Now, two things bother me about this:</p>
<p>1) If John Kerry (Did you know he was in Vietnam?) who is, by all accounts, a fool, a liar, a flip-flopper, an abject traitor to his country, and a screaming liberal (forgive me for repeating myself, there) can so much as consider John McCain as a running mate, just what does that say for McCain's Conservative credentials? After all, please remember that to the left in this country, anything Conservatism is simply a reincarnation of nazism.</p>
<p>2) The fact that McCain actually allowed the possibility to float for a day or two before rejecting it, and even then in only the mildest of terms. He should have stood up and called the offer for what it was: a cynical attempt to add a real hero to a ticket where the first half had already been exposed as a fraud. But NOOOOOOOO...... Johnny LOVES having the media salivate all over him, which is why I still firmly believe that he cares more about himself and what the media thinks of him than he does anything else.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm well aware that "Conservatism is not a party", but you make it sound like one can't be in the party unless he toes the line and keeps his mouth shut.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Funny. I could say the same thing about him.</p>
<p>And no, if you don't generally toe the line and stick with your own side, then you shouldn't be surprised when your side doesn't consider you a reliable member.</p>
<p>Carter, McCain, and Perot. </p>
<p>Sheesh. I wonder what decks they were on at Canoe U.? Must have been something in the water....</p>
<p>
[quote]
Holy cr*p! I missed that story on the UNC 4-wheel bomber. Very sad. Was the attacker also a student at UNC?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not surprised. The last thing the left and the media (I'm repeating myself again) want in this country is to have the people remember that we still have enemies out there (other than Bush, of course, who makes Hitler look like Pope John Paul II). :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I heard one student who was interviewed about the incident, and he said, "I don't understand why he would feel the need to attack US. After all, we're mostly liberals here!"</p>
<p>Now if THAT doesn't say it all, I don't know what does!</p>
<p>I don't recall if the tango was a student or not.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I've always been pis*ed that Gore is taken seriously by anyone! They should put him on an island. He could start his own Jurasic Park with his DNA.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Al Gore has been off his medication since the night he accepted the DNC nomination.</p>
<p>I still remember him chairing some big global-warming conference or other....... on the day the biggest snow storm in years hit New York. Even Letterman was making fun of the idiot.</p>
<p>Good conversation folks.
No one is going to change any minds here but it is fun to discuss every so often. The truth is out there, it doesn't need to be fair or balanced, it is what it is. Everything else is just spin. It's when we let others do our thinking for us that the world gets dangerous.</p>
<p>One final note:---I don't think John Kerry was a good candidate---I had doubts about his ability to lead this nation under the present circumstances. BUT. There is one thing that is not in question--like John McCain, his record of service to his country far outweighs that of most people in Congress or in the White House. To call a man who goes to Vietnam, was wounded in combat, decorated with 3 purple hearts and a bronze star, and honorably discharged, a "traitor" is just plain insulting to the nation. I doubt anyone on this board can boast a record like that. The man deserves that respect, no matter what you think of his "politics".</p>
<p>
[quote]
just what does that say for McCain's Conservative credentials?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Z - you answered your own question:</p>
<p>
[quote]
...what it was: a cynical attempt to add a real hero to a ticket where the first half had already been exposed as a fraud.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
The fact that McCain actually allowed the possibility to float for a day or two before rejecting it, and even then in only the mildest of terms.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hey Zaphod, if a presidential candidate, let's even say John Kerry for example, asked you to be his running mate, how long would you take to reject it? :) And would you reject it in mild terms or in some other way?</p>
<p>Whoops--forgot, Kerry was awarded a silver star in Vietnam as well.
How many war heros are in Congress or the White House (or on this board) that have 3 purple hearts, a bronze star and a silver star they earned while fighting for this country want to stand up and explain why Kerry's service to the nation was less honorable and that he is a traitor? Fact is, most of us couldn't fill his shoes in that respect.</p>
<p>Just because you were a war hero ~35 years ago, doesn't assure you were ever (nevermind...still) viable to lead a nation successfully. I mean come on, the guy can't even talk without the listener thinking he's on a couple separate sets of puppet strings. He probably wasn't like that 30+ years ago!</p>
<p>When I first heard Kerry was running for President, I actually got worried that his presentation (good looks, stature, war record, etc) would threaten Bush for the presidency. But then I watched him speak on the news at different events and in the debates and I realized he blew his chances early. He actually had time to pull it together and turn it around, but every time he opened his mouth, he seemed totally out of touch with all the speculation about his flip-flop style speeches. I liken his ignorance to that of G.W. Bush's "out of touch" loss to Clinton.</p>
<p>Kerry should have retired as a controvertial war hero. I don't think his political retirement will have nearly as much content to look back on.</p>
<p>shogun,
you expressed my personal sentiments perfectly. Thank you.</p>
<p>Being a war hero doesn't automatically qualify you to be president, US Grant was a perfect example. It does however earn you the right not to be smeared because you happen to have a record the other guy fears. </p>
<p>Flip Flops? "W"'s have been a BIT more dangerous:</p>
<ol>
<li>Weapons of Mass Destruction </li>
</ol>
<p>Announcing the invasion of Iraq on March 19, 2003, Mr. Bush said, Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. </p>
<p>Two months into the war, on May 29, 2003, Mr. Bush said weapons of mass destruction had been found. </p>
<p>We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories, Mr. Bush told Polish television. For those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." </p>
<p>On Sept. 9, 2004, in Pennsylvania, Mr. Bush said: I recognize we didn't find the stockpiles [of weapons] we all thought were there. </p>
<hr>
<hr>
<ol>
<li>Nation Building and the War in Iraq </li>
</ol>
<p>During the 2000 campaign, George W. Bush argued against nation building and foreign military entanglements. In the second presidential debate, he said: "I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say, 'This is the way it's got to be.'" </p>
<p>The United States is currently involved in nation building in Iraq on a scale unseen since the years immediately following World War II. </p>
<p>During the 2000 election, Mr. Bush called for U.S. troops to be withdrawn from the NATO peacekeeping mission in the Balkans. His administration now cites such missions as an example of how America must "stay the course." </p>
<ol>
<li>Iraq and the Sept. 11 Attacks </li>
</ol>
<p>In a press conference in September 2002, six months before the invasion of Iraq, President Bush said, you can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror... they're both equally as bad, and equally as evil, and equally as destructive. </p>
<p>In September of 2004, Mr. Bush said: We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11th." Though he added that there's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties, the statement seemingly belied earlier assertions that Saddam and al Qaeda were equally bad. </p>
<p>The Sept. 11 commission found there was no evidence Saddam was linked to the 9/11 attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people. </p>
<ol>
<li>The Sept. 11 Commission </li>
</ol>
<p>President Bush initially opposed the creation of an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 attacks. In May 2002, he said, Since it deals with such sensitive information, in my judgment, it's best for the ongoing war against terror that the investigation be done in the intelligence committee. </p>
<p>Bowing to pressure from victims' families, Mr. Bush reversed his position. The following September, he backed an independent investigation. </p>
<ol>
<li>Free Trade </li>
</ol>
<p>During the 2000 presidential election, Mr. Bush championed free trade. Then, eyeing campaign concerns that allowed him to win West Virginia, he imposed 30 percent tariffs on foreign steel products from Europe and other nations in March 2002. </p>
<p>Twenty-one months later, Mr. Bush changed his mind and rescinded the steel tariffs. Choosing to stand on social issues instead of tariffs in steel country Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia the Bush campaign decided it could afford to upset the steel industry rather than further estrange old alliances. </p>
<ol>
<li>Homeland Security Department </li>
</ol>
<p>President Bush initially opposed creating a new Department of Homeland Security. He wanted Tom Ridge, now the secretary of Homeland Security, to remain an adviser. </p>
<p>Mr. Bush reversed himself and backed the largest expansion of the federal government since the creation of the Defense Department in 1949. </p>
<ol>
<li>Same-Sex Marriage </li>
</ol>
<p>During the 2000 campaign, Mr. Bush said he was against federal intervention regarding the issue of same-sex marriage. In an interview with CNN's Larry King, he said, states "can do what they want to do" on the issue. Vice President Cheney took the same stance. </p>
<p>Four year later, this past February, Mr. Bush announced his support for an amendment to the Constitution that defines marriage as being exclusively between men and women. The amendment would forbid states from doing "what they want to do" on same-sex marriage. </p>
<p>Citing recent decisions by activist judges in states like Massachusetts, Mr. Bush defended his reversal. Critics point out that well before the 2000 presidential race, a judge in Hawaii ruled in December 1996 that there was no compelling reason for withholding marriage from same-sex couples. </p>
<ol>
<li>Winning the War on Terror </li>
</ol>
<p>"I don't think you can win it," Mr. Bush said of the war on terror in August. In an interview on NBC's "Today" show, he said, I think you can create conditions so that . . . those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world." </p>
<p>Before the month closed, Mr. Bush reversed himself at the American Legion national convention in Nashville. He said: "We meet today in a time of war for our country, a war we did not start yet one that we will win." He later added, we are winning, and we will win." </p>
<ol>
<li>Campaign Finance Reform </li>
</ol>
<p>President Bush was initially against the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform bill. He opposed any soft-money limits on individuals to national parties. </p>
<p>But Mr. Bush later signed McCain-Feingold into law. The law, named for Senate sponsors John McCain, R-Ariz., and Russell Feingold, D-Wis., barred both national parties from collecting soft money from individuals. </p>
<p>During the 2000 race, Mr. Bush showed support for the so-called 527 groups right to air advertising. </p>
<p>In March 2000, he told CBS News' "Face the Nation," "There have been ads, independent expenditures, that are saying bad things about me. I don't particularly care when they do, but that's what freedom of speech is all about. </p>
<p>In late August of this year, in an effort to distance himself from controversial anti-Kerry ads by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Mr. Bush reversed his position, announcing he would join McCain in legal action to stop these "shadowy" organizations. </p>
<p>Though it would close the Swift Boat group's funding, court action would also silence well-funded liberal 527 organizations like MoveOn.org and America Coming Together. </p>
<ol>
<li>Gas Prices </li>
</ol>
<p>Mr. Bush was critical of Al Gore in the 2000 campaign for being part of the administration that's been in charge while the price of gasoline has gone steadily upward. In December 1999, in the first Republican primary debate, Mr. Bush said President Clinton must jawbone OPEC members to lower prices. </p>
<p>As gas topped a record level of $50 a barrel this week, Mr. Bush has shown no propensity to personally pressure, or jawbone, Mideast oil producers to increase output. </p>
<p>A spokesman for the president reportedly said in March that Mr. Bush will not personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds. </p>
<p>"the guy <kerry> can't even talk without the listener thinking he's on a couple separate sets of puppet strings"</kerry></p>
<p>Thats funny coming from a "W" supporter! ---everytime he starts talking "off the cue cards," W's staff must get the heebee-jeebies! I still see those images of him sitting there in that 3rd grade class reading that kiddie book while we were being attacked---was he waiting for someone to come and tell him what to do?????</p>
<p>More Flip Flops:</p>
<p>"Bush is against campaign finance reform;
then he's for it.</p>
<p>Bush is against a Homeland Security Department;
then he's for it.</p>
<p>Bush is against a 9/11 commission;
then he's for it.</p>
<p>Bush is against an Iraq WMD investigation;
then he's for it.</p>
<p>Bush is against nation building;
then he's for it.</p>
<p>Bush is against deficits;
then he's for them.</p>
<p>Bush is for slashing overtime pay for American workers
then he is against it.</p>
<p>Bush is for free trade;
then he's for tariffs on steel;
then he's against them again.</p>
<p>Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli
Palestinian conflict;
then he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.</p>
<p>Bush is for states right to decide on gay marriage,
then he is for changing the constitution.</p>
<p>Bush first says he'll provide money for first responders
(fire, police, emergency), then he doesn't.</p>
<p>Bush first says that 'help is on the way' to the military ...
then he cuts benefits.</p>
<p>Bush-"The most important thing is for us to find
Osama bin Laden.
Bush-"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and
I really don't care. </p>
<p>Bush claims to be in favor of the environment and
then secretly starts drilling on Padre Island. </p>
<p>Bush talks about helping education and increases
mandates while cutting funding.</p>
<p>Bush first says the U.S. won't negotiate with North Korea.
Now he will</p>
<p>Bush goes to Bob Jones University.
Then say's he shouldn't have. </p>
<p>Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on
whether to sanction military action against Iraq.
Later Bush announced he would not call for a vote.</p>
<p>Bush said the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by
the sailors. Bush later admits it was his advance team.</p>
<p>Bush was for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who
enter the US. Bush after meeting with Pres. Fox,
he's against it."</p>
<p>We can go on and on and on---it's all just political rhetoric and the "conservatives" are armpit deep in it as well. Values? You won't find many that "stick" among the neo-cons>>>> or the far left<<<<when it comes to reality. It's time to wrestle the hold that both have on the political landscape today.</p>
<p>Damn, those academy applications are really going to drop now...:D</p>
<p><em>&#@^#&!!!!</em>76^#%48___............
Zaphod's ears ringing in his sleep.</p>
<p>I get tired of all the party or left-right crap. I've played that game and I'm done with it. Instead I use my brain and MY values and dictate my beliefs and support who I choose to (which is sometimes nobody).</p>
<p>Someone brought up Al Gore... something I saw in today's paper, made me laugh:</p>
<p>"In front of a crowd in Florida this past weekend, Al Gore said, 'The people of the United States are going to stand up and take our country back.' And then the manager of the karaoke bar took the microphone away and said, 'Either sing or sit down, buddy.'" --Jay Leno. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
To call a man who goes to Vietnam, was wounded in combat, decorated with 3 purple hearts and a bronze star, and honorably discharged, a "traitor" is just plain insulting to the nation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Considering he put himself in for most of his medals, and that many of them are questionable, and one of them is for shooting an unarmed kid in the back, makes him a fraud.</p>
<p>Considering he came back and LIED to the American people about the war, LIED about his fellow troops torturing people, burning villages with the people in them, cutting off ears, cutting of heads, etc., went to France and MET with representatives of the Vietnamese government, etc., makes him a TRAITOR.</p>
<p>You can sit here and recite the talking points of the other side all you want. If you can't face facts, that's your own problem.</p>
<p>Funny. In 1992 and 1996, military service was no big deal to the dims. In 2004, it was all the rage. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Blah, blah, blah...</p>
<p>We can go on and on and on---it's all just political rhetoric and the "conservatives" are armpit deep in it as well. Values? You won't find many that "stick" among the neo-cons>>>> or the far left<<<<when it comes to reality. It's time to wrestle the hold that both have on the political landscape today.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The cut-paste Force is strong in this one....</p>
<p>Still waiting for you to offer an alternative.</p>
<p>All I'm hearing from you is "Bush sucks", which is about the only thing the left has these days. The last original idea they had was back in the 1960's, and we all know how well the Great Society and a foreign policy of "Give the UN 50 chances" has gone.</p>
<p>Waiting......... Waiting......... Waiting......... Waiting........ :rolleyes:</p>
<p>It must really burn your tails that this idiot, frat-boy, flip-flopping, service-avoiding, torturing, murdering, spying, levee-destroying, black-people-drowning, deficit-spending, 35%-approval-rating, prayerful, 9/11-planning, earhtquake-creating, global-warming-ignoring boob has managed to clean the clocks of the best the left has to offer. </p>
<p>Hell, I'd vote for him again in 2008 just to see you folks completely melt down. :D</p>
<p>Is he perfect? Hardly. Not nearly conservative enough for my taste, but like so many others, I was faced with the choice of him or that elitist snob that would have sent us hell-bent on a road toward complete socialism (not that we're that far now), surrender, and defeat.</p>
<p>I didn't spend ten years in uniform standing ready to defend this country just to allow a political party to do to us everything we were ready to fight to prevent having the enemy do to us.</p>
<p>As for the folks in Congress, they're just as spineless, and with few exceptions. The few true conservatives are outnumbered by the "moderates" and vilified by the liberals (who, incidentally, have to run as moderates in order to win almost anywhere except San Francisco, where Conservatism is, of course, illegal and cause for immediate sentencing to a re-education camp called Berkely).</p>
<p>"Still waiting for you to offer an alternative."</p>
<p>The only alternative to someone who is not competent is to cast a ballot in 2008 for someone who is.</p>
<p>Or change the constitution so the competent one can stay longer! :D</p>
<p>
[quote]
The only alternative to someone who is not competent is to cast a ballot in 2008 for someone who is.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Still waiting for a viable alternative....</p>
<p>Guess you don't vote much then, do you?</p>
<p>I've probably voted in more presidential (and other) elections than you have, young zaphod. Sometimes my candidate wins, sometimes he doesn't. Most of the time the winner ends up being fairly competent anyway. I can't remember a bigger disappointment than W, Republican or Democrat.</p>