<p>I'm one of those people with a family income hovering around the 60k threshold (which would make my EFC 0, I think). I was lucky enough to get into Harvard early. I have quite a few questions.</p>
<p>Harvard's CSS and FAFSA is due Feb 1, so is that for this year's tax return, or last year's? My dad has been freaking out because every year our income is around 60k, but last year it was inflated to 78k (long story). He just didn't want that to affect my aid since we don't make that much. That income inflation has already affected all the scholarships I tried to apply for.</p>
<p>Moving on- I was thinking about applying to the other schools I would consider dropping Harvard for: Yale, Stanford, and Penn. To be honest, I would probably still pick Harvard if I got into any of these. But if I do get into say Yale in the RD round, can I haggle with Harvard over financial aid (if Yale gives me more)? Is any one school known for giving better aid? And how would Penn and Stanford compare to Harvard and Yale's aid? I realize this is all hypothetical, but I don't want to waste time doing extra apps if it'll just make the decision harder come April. [Intended concentration at Harvard is Government. I'm into the whole public policy, political science, international relations route. Or communications (but sadly Harvard doesn't offer that)].</p>
<p>And last side question: should I withdraw my application to UVA and Chapel Hill? I feel bad because I definitely won't go to either if I get in, and some other kids from school applied. I didn't pay a fee to apply (got it waived) and I didn't spend THAT much effort on the essays. I'm dealing with the same awkwardness about Michigan, which I got into, and friends who applied getting rejected. Keep in mind, I haven't accepted Harvard's offer.</p>
<p>Thank you! And sorry for the 800 questions; I had no idea what category to place this discussion in haha</p>
<p>Congrats Melissa – we chatted before about Penn. 1) moving from 60K to 78K, you can easily see what the Harvard’s NPC would say. It’s not that much of a difference. From zero EFC – it might move up to a thousand or so. That shouldn’t freak your dad out, I would say. 2) Yale is your best bet for comparable Fin Aid. Penn and Stanford likely won’t be able to beat out H. Sincerely give yourself to applying to those. Something might grab you. (I think I indicated to you earlier my strong suggestion based upon what you said you were looking for in a college selection) It’s nice to have a golden ticket in your back pocket but people do decline Harvard – exactly for schools like Yale, Penn and Stanford. You might be surprised! 3) Yes, you should withdraw your other apps. It’s the polite thing to do.</p>
<p>Harvard’s decision isn’t binding, but if I knew that I wouldn’t attend other schools after getting accepted to Harvard, I’d drop my application out of proper etiquette. It’s your call. </p>
<p>Also, I would like to point out that attending Harvard is worth it maybe even after couple of thousands of dollars in loan. If you are almost positive that your family’s income will drop to 60k next tax cycle, accept Harvard’s offer of admission and keep yourself from worrying about other things. </p>
<p>60k does not make your federal EFC 0. I don’t think 60 is pell eligible depending on how many in your family.</p>
<p>HYP and likely S and M give the best aid and they should be comparable at your income level to each other. No college is known for better aid. I really wouldn’t anticipate that you will have to try and haggle with anyone. You will get generous aid, no loans like most places will make you take. (Fyi my low income dd got exact same expected family amt from 5 colleges only the ivy gave no loans.)</p>
<p>. Your dad doesn’t have any say how his income affects aid. Of course it does. 60k is the cutoff for many outside agencies and other colleges to let you qualify for certain money. At Harvard they will increase it the next year if his income goes down. So you may have to pay a little one year. If you don’t feel you can, then how can you pay an alternate school? You could appeal your package showing old tax returns, but don’t you think some extra money one year could help with that? You can take your fed student loan of 5500 to help pay the family portion if you want.</p>
<p>Aid for academic year 2015-16 is based on 2014 income. Aid for 2016-17is based on 2015 income. Sometimes you use 2013 income for CSS estimate, did you have directions to do that? That is how it work each year except if you appeal for special circumstances, like unusual medical bills.</p>
<p>Why did you not submit the CSS profile with estimates so you could get an estimated package? I would try to do this asap. You dad should file fafsa asap after jan 1. He can correct the fafsa when he files his taxes which he should do as soon as he can. Does he own a business? If no, then yes run the NPC at the 2income levels.</p>
<p>The only way to get better money is to apply for and get a 4 year guaranteed full ride. There are some competitive ones but deadlines likely passed. There are automatic ones at much much lower ranked colleges you could get if deadline didn’t pass. Do you have any interest, say, in univ Alabama at Huntsville because full ride? If not, then drop the fretting, and just do one or two apps in you must.</p>
<p>It is pointless to feel bad about where other people get in. Everyone has to apply to a variety to better their own chances. You just didn’t know where you would get in. Once you are sure you are not going, that you can afford at least one other school you prefer, then decline the school and open the spot.</p>
<p>@BrownParent I’ve barely done any research about Harvard’s financial aid, so this is probably way wrong, but their mailings have been saying “Under 60k and no loan needed” etc. in fact I’m pretty sure that’s for a family of four. I have a family of 5 with 1 in college. (Please correct me if I’m wrong!)</p>
<p>I didn’t submit the CSS earlier to get the estimate because 1) submitting it costs money and I wasn’t sure I’d get in and 2) that info would all have to be updated. My dad was telling me that if we waited for the Feb 1 deadline, he could avoid using last years information. Please correct me if I’m wrong on that.</p>
<p>I did the net price calculator on the website and with the 60k income, I think it came out to $4000 (term time work/student savings, no EFC).</p>
<p>@T26E4 Thank you for your previous advice, and your advice now! I’ve decided to apply to Yale for sure. Still deciding on Stanford and probably not for Penn. </p>
<p>@viphan thanks for your input! I’ll withdraw my other two apps.</p>
<p>If you have time then apply to Yale, Stanford. But I think your family should enjoy the holidays. A few thousand dollars don’t make a lot of difference in life.</p>
<p>This will give you a feel for how generous the various schools are at different family income thresholds.</p>
<p>You can also review College Board’s ‘findthebest’ site and plug in whatever schools you wish to compare. In this link I included HYPS and a poster-child for ‘unaffordable elites’, NYU for an easy side-by-side comparison. (see the ‘net price’ section)</p>
<p>If you are sure that Harvard will be affordable, then you need only apply to the set of colleges that you prefer over Harvard and are likely to be affordable. This set may be the null set, in which case you are done.</p>
<p>If Harvard may not be affordable, then you need to apply to at least a financial safety (probably an automatic full ride scholarship school, since very few other schools will give better need-based financial aid than Harvard).</p>
<p>Hi Melissa and congrats. There should be no money issues at Harvard for you - they are one if the most generous schools around. For the non-ivy schools yes drop your application. They will not come near what harvard offers. </p>
<p>Congrats.
For the CSS, you complete it now, using 2014 estimated numbers.
For the FASFA, you complete it on 1/1/15 using 2014 actual numbers, but maybe they allow estimates? The earlier that you file the FASFA, the more money that is available, so earlier is better. However, most parents don’t do their taxes this early. So really push your dad to get the FASFA in as soon as he can on or after 1/1/15.The amount that your dad made in 2014 is what is going to matter. If it is $78K instead of $60K, then your fin aid package will be a little bit worse, but just a small amount. </p>
<p>Yes, if you apply to other colleges, you can compare their fin aid packages. Yes you may be able to haggle the fin aid packages if you have more than one in hand… </p>
<p>Others can correct me if I’m wrong, you can only haggle with peer institutions. So if you are accepted to YPSCD, then you can present your FA package and they will rework numbers in many cases. As the above poster said, H gives great aid & you probably won’t find a better anywhere else. Unless it’s an Ivy or a school of their ilk.</p>
<p>Don’t call it haggling if you do it, of course. Tell them your “cost of attendance” is lower at a comparable school, and ask if they will “review your FA offer” in light of this information. Be prepared to provide a copy of the other school’s FA package info when you ask for the review, they will probably want to see it.</p>
<p>It’s dubious many other schools will be as affordable for your family as Harvard, except perhaps Yale. If you’re a family of 5 with one in college, the difference in EFC will be negligible. Drop all other schools as they won’t be as affordable and won’t be the same value (what you get for what you pay!) Apply to Yale if you wish to compare packages but I doubt you’ll have to ask Harvard to “reassess your aid” considering they’re basically the most generous school out there for families up to 75k (and 78k with 5 including one in college would definitely qualify).
CONGRATULATIONS! This is a tremendous accomplishment. :)</p>
<p>I just ran Harvard and Yale’s net price calculator for my 2014 income.</p>
<p>At around 60k:
Harvard expects me to pay $4,600 ($3000 in term time work and $1600 in summer savings).</p>
<p>Yale was similar at $4,475. </p>
<p>So just to get this straight: after January 1, colleges will be looking at 2014 tax return information, and no longer at 2013? The $78k income inflated both NPC to around $10k. This wouldn’t keep me from going to Harvard, but it’s a financial burden I’m trying to avoid. And I’m keeping in mind that both calculators are pretty vague (there was no place to indicate that my parents paid off their mortgage, which I’m pretty sure would affect the aid award).</p>
<p>Another dumb question: all this aid is from the college alone, using the CSS profile, right? Federal aid (from FAFSA) hasn’t even come into play yet?</p>
<p>I think it’s a combo. Most private colleges use CSS profile because it provides more details. FAFSA is used to calculate Pell Grant (not a lot), workstudy, and loans provided by the federal government.</p>
<p>You could easily get a part time job in college or intership jobs during the summer instead of borrowing money. The jobs usually pays $10/hr or more. Intership jobs during the summer usually pay a lot more.</p>
<p>I think you should divide your attention and focus on the elements for which you have an … influence</p>
<ol>
<li>If you plan more applications, get to work!</li>
<li>Make sure your parents file all the form correctly and on time, but do NOT stress about all those calculators. Those are great to give you a preliminary idea, but no the final numbers. Allow the schools to come back with their packages. The biggest differences will be in the form of the student’s expectations.<br></li>
<li>Focus on the school you like the best and not on the few thousand dollars differences. What you call a financial burden is really not that big of a deal (in your income range) as you could borrow at low rate with a long payback. As a HYPS graduate, facing 100 or 150 dollars a month in student loan should not make you lose sleep … today. </li>
<li>With a bit of luck and deternination, you might be able to wipe out those loans through internships in your last two years. </li>
</ol>
<p>All in all, this message is pretty simple: you have done the hardest part and now you should sit tight and let the financial aid package(s) arrive, look at them, and still pick the school that is the best academic fit. Money will work out! </p>
<p>I completely agree with @xiggi post #2 and #3 - well said</p>
<p>One thing you can do is to include a letter in your financial documents that shows your Dad’s earnings history per year, so this jump for the one year can be seen in context and as that it be considered. If this income is not going to happen again you need to tell them that and why. Otherwise, why shouldn’t they consider current income as predicting future income. All you can do is respectfully include that information for consideration.</p>
<p>Understand that the CSS has all the info the college needs to give you aid. They will know from the CSS info what federal aid you will be getting or not. They will know student gets X pell grant, is qualified for X work/study etc. So the FAFSA adds nothing to your aid package calculation. It just is the form you need for actual federal money disbursement to happen. If that is not clear I can try again.</p>
<p>I’m not an expert here but here is what I think, pretty sure: yes when you fill out the CSS at the same time you apply, you usually supply 2013 actuals and tax return. I think you are supposed to adjust for 2014 changes, but when you do the 2014 FAFSA and send your 2014 returns, they will usually update it. Since you haven’t done your CSS, it makes sense to me to do it now with 2014 numbers. Please go to the financial aid forum if you have questions about the CSS --there are real experts in there.</p>
<p>I completely agree with @xiggi post #2 and #3 - well said</p>
<p>One thing you can do is to include a letter in your financial documents that shows your Dad’s earnings history per year, so this jump for the one year can be seen in context and as that it be considered. If this income is not going to happen again you need to tell them that and why. Otherwise, why shouldn’t they consider current income as predicting future income. All you can do is respectfully include that information for consideration.</p>
<p>I’m not an expert here but, pretty sure: yes when you fill out the CSS at the same time you apply, you usually supply 2013 actuals and tax return. I think you are supposed to adjust for 2014 changes, but when you do the 2014 FAFSA and send your 2014 returns, they will usually update it. Since you haven’t done your CSS, it makes sense to me to do it now with 2014 numbers. Please go to the financial aid forum if you have questions about the CSS --there are real experts in there for specific questions about the forms.
<a href=“Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/</a></p>