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<p>He should submit more apps because he is seventeen years old & growing & maturing and, therefore, changing.>></p>
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<p>This might be true for some kids but it isn't true for all. DD had a number on choice all along. It was an EA school to which she got accepted early. Her number two choice (same #2 all along) also notified her very early...both by the beginning of December. It was a complete waste of her time and our money to have her apply elsewhere. She is at the EA #1 School...but you know....if that hadn't worked out, she could have transferred.</p>
<p>Agree with everyone...get that ED ap changed to RD. And then let the kid enjoy his senior year instead of pestering him to apply to colleges when he is already happy with the acceptance he has. DD remarked repeatedly how happy she was do be DONE with college aps by mid-October while many of her friends were still filling them out over Christmas break or later. And she had those acceptances to the two top schools (and her third choice by mid January...also EA). It made her senior year oh so much more pleasant.</p>
<p>Now is Nov. 14. By mid-December EA, ED and SCEA applicants will know whether they were accepted to the schools to which they applied. A very high number of those who were will drop other applications. There's little difference in maturity to be gained between mid-November and mid-December.
I agree that the applicant should move the ED application to RD. </p>
<p>The one issue I would have is over finances. Right now, OOS at Michigan is the applicant's top choice. What are the financial consequences? Would the applicant have a chance at financial aid or merit money at some other schools? Michigan is a great school, but it can be quite expensive for OOS applicants. If the parents are concerned about financial security, it might be worth applying to reachy schools that are also generous with financial aid or merit aid.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone, for your responses. I'm sure I will be compulsively PM-ing many of you. It seems that S has two decisions to make:</p>
<p>1) CHANGE ED TO RD?<br>
S says he wants to stick with ED. He says he also loves his ED reach school and if he gets in ED, that's what was meant to be. (But he identified UMich as a "dream school" earlier, before his SAT scores put him in the running for the ED school.) However, he acknowledges that acceptance at the super-competitive ED school is such a longshot that he hasn't given it much thought. His GC helped him make this decision: She asked him if he got into both schools RD in March which he would choose. </p>
<p>(BTW, as many of you have suggested, his "love" for both UMich and the ED school is not based on a mature analysis, rather on 17-year old gut feeling.)</p>
<p>2) APPLY TO OTHER REACH SCHOOLS?
I see both sides of this: Option # 1: Relax, trust S's assessment of what he wants, enjoy senior year, never look back. Option #2: Convince S that indeed he is just a kid and he might change his mind. What if he suddenly wants something smaller and warmer, or with a specific academic program not found at UMich? What's the downside to having choices? (especially when attendance at UMich means paying OOS tuition at a huge public school - we can afford this, but is it worth it?) We realize that this is a GOOD problem, but there is no clear answer to this dilemma.</p>
<p>Using ColdWind's logic, no one should ever apply ED. Afterall, you are committed early on and 17yos can change their mind.</p>
<p>nprr- your first and last post seem contradictory. I think a lot of people provided useful information to you based on what you told them in the first post. Now the information seems different. </p>
<p>If he wants the ED school as you are now suggesting, I don't see what the conflict is My hunch then is the conflict is he really wants Michigan but you think otherwise. That's a different problem.</p>
<p>I was trying to be concise in my first post, and I apologize for not clarifying. My question was really about whether S should apply to other reach schools, not whether he should change his ED app. </p>
<p>I can't tell you how much I appreciate everyone's feedback.</p>
<p>nprr I think you have the conversation once with your S. You explain why you think he may profit from submitting a couple more apps ask him for input and let it go.</p>
<p>One of my Ds after initially showing interest and saying that she would apply to Loyola Marymount has now changed her mind. It has now become a joke and I tease her by hiding the promotional posters they have sent in various places throughout the house; on the tv inside the entertainment center, in the shower, in her closet. I don't think she will change her mind but by making it into a playful game I have been encouraging her to think about it w/o being naggy.</p>
<p>My son felt like he was done when he was accepted to the school he like best on an EA basis. However, it was not that much work to complete the RD apps, and he did so because I asked him to do so. I was worried that he would change his mind. I wanted to see if he would get some merit money. </p>
<p>He did not change his mind, but he did get merit money. He was able to negotiate some more from the college of choice that way as he let them know what other offers were. However, it is doubtful if UMich would deal this way. </p>
<p>Many kids we know are done when they get that first acceptance.</p>
<p>nprr, has your son visited both Michigan and his ED reach school? Did he go ED in hopes of bettering his chances with the reach school, or did he genuinely consider that school his #1 choice at the time?</p>
<p>If he's visited Michigan and likes it better than the reach school, then he should probably at least change his ED app to RD.</p>
<p>I can't believe people think that a 17 yr old doesn't know what he wants. Some don't, I agree, but some do. Mine applied to Umich in September, was accepted in October with a scholarship offer in November. Never thought twice. Loved all four years there and will be returning for his PhD next fall. Sometimes they really do know what they're doing.</p>
<p>Coldwind--my advice was, make sure the student still really, really wants the ED school first, and knows that staying with it will mean losing the other one.</p>
<p>My addendum was a personal data point, not germaine to a general discussion. I have no way of knowing if he'd have stuck it out at MI. He might have, he might have dropped out earlier. Much of the situation at the school he chose arose from personal issues, not school-specific. </p>
<p>In a vaccuum, the ED process worked just as it should have for him. He had a sunny, relaxed senior year of HS.</p>
<p>Marian,
Thanks for clarifying-
I agree with your post and Starbright's. Cptofthehouse makes a good point too. Acceptances with aid can be used as negotiating tools down the road, but if the schools on the OP's reach list dont happen to offer merit aid, and the OP doesnt need or qualify for need-based aid (I have no data on this-- just hypothesizing) then there really is no compelling reason to keep applying to reach schools that really don't interest or fit the OP's son. He doesn't sound like the type that wants to apply just to "trophy hunt" (ie see how many he can get into), and sounds pretty reasonable, from the OP's description. I think there can sometimes be a disadvantage to having multiple admission offers to juggle come April. If the OP's son has visited the schools, feels strongly about the reach, Michigan end eventhe stats schools safety, then he can move on to the next thing on his plaate. If he is waffling about a school that he thinks he might prefer at some time inthe next few months, then applying is reasonable, to keep that option open. But if the other reach schools are all below Michigan in level of desirability to the OP's son, then I support his decision to let it go and move on. Time to enjoy senior year!</p>
<p>It's a tough one, if he really loves Michigan, go for it. I agree with Lunitari, he might as well change ED to RD and then see what happens. Michigan isn't going anywhere.</p>
<p>S1 got into his #1 and #3 choices during EA (though #3 was actually about #6 in December). He dropped three schools from the eight on his original list and added one (mega-reach, at our suggestion, for FA purposes). In retrospect, he says should have dropped more and just kept his #2 (which was in the running until the end of April) and the flagship (financial safety with great program in his field that he would have been happy to attend). He did not want to trophy hunt, but he also felt that the schools he kept on the list had a compelling chance. Part of it was that he spent major time and effort preparing his list. He knew what he wanted and did his legwork and networking to a fare-thee-well.</p>
<p>If there is a strong reason for your S to keep apps out there (looking for FA, merit, better program), there is nothing wrong with doing so.</p>
<p>I agree with the other posters that if he's not sure about Mich vs. ED, it's time to go RD and give him some time to think about what he wants, visit campus and sit in on classes, etc. I will also posit that he should think about the ways in which each school will allow him to grow over the next four years. This turned out to be a <em>very</em> important factor to my son come late April last year.</p>
<p>nprr, has your son visited both Michigan and his ED reach school?
Yes - He stayed in the dorms with a former teammate at one, and in a frat house with his friend's older brother at the other. I was with him on both occasions, and both schools seemed like perfect fits.</p>
<p>Did he go ED in hopes of bettering his chances with the reach school?
Yes.</p>
<p>Or did he genuinely consider that school his #1 choice at the time?
He says he loves the two schools equally in different ways. He realizes that the ED school is much more prestigious than UMich, and although he is really down to earth and far from a "trophy hunter", that does affect his thinking.</p>
<p>Yes, my son switched his ED application to RD at Northwestern University two years ago after being offered a full tuition scholarship & a fellowship with stipend at another university. He was offered admission to Northwestern University as a RD admit.</p>
<p>In response to Post #24: Applying ED should be done very carefully & preferably along with at least one rolling admission application. Although 17 year olds may know what they want at age 17, that may change at age 18. There are appropriate situations for applying ED, but the OP's son's case is not one since he has more than one dream school & has been accepted to one without a binding committment.</p>
<p>Let me add a wrinkle from Behavioral Economics. Some people are "optimizers"- they need a lot of data before they make decisions. They carefully consider all available options; they're your neighbor who has asked you five times why you bought a Honda and not a Toyota. They research everything and even after they make a decision they worry that new information will emerge which will offer up a better choice. If you tell them that you bought a Honda because the dealer was on the way to work they will not believe you.</p>
<p>Some people are "satisfiers". As long as they have a choice at hand which seems to put them over the bar (i.e. satisfies some combination of minimal needs, wants, at a good price) they don't really care that there are other options they haven't considered. This is your neighbor who called to ask you if you were happy with the guy who replaced your roof last year- since your houses are similar and built the same year, your neighbor feels pretty confident that if the roofer did a good job for you last year, he'll do a good job for him this year. He's not going to get 5 competitive bids or check 12 references- he'll call you and that will be that.</p>
<p>We can all assign most of the people we know into one or the other category- except that there are anomolies at the tail end of the curve. So we all know optimizers who still use the toothpaste their mom bought growing up- the choice of toothpaste isn't important enough for them, and the range of options is way too big, for them to engage on the subject of toothpaste flavors, brands, flouride, whitening, etc. And we all know satisfiers who make most decisions pretty quickly who labor over a couple of major life's choices (marriage, college, starting a family) in a way that is a-typical for them. Again- the choice is too monumental and the options seem so clearly different, that they engage in much more fact-finding than is typical for them.</p>
<p>Perhaps you should get your son's input on where he falls in the spectrum. Some kids are delighted to go to a college that is a good fit for them. They don't lose sleep over the fact that there might have been 10 other colleges which potentially could have been better fits. Some kids are unhappy with all of their choices, convinced that if they just see one more school or consult one more guidebook the answer will be clear. If your son needs a lot of information in front of him I would encourage you to switch the ED to RD and complete his applications. If he's the kind of kid who just needs to know that he's not making a dumb choice-- then stick with what you have since it sounds like he can't lose.</p>
<p>I had satisfiers thank god. It can take me an hour to buy shampoo in Walmart; I still haven't put up blinds in the living room since everytime I pick one they add an option- room darkening? insulating? top down, bottom up? ecru, linen white or antique white? matching or contrasting header? It's just too much for me.</p>
<p>Fortunately my kids found a couple of choices they were happy with early in the college process, randomly narrowed the field once exhaustion took over, and happily attended their "first choice" (from which they're all happily graduated from.) They would have annointed wherever they went as their "first choice"; unlike their mom who is still mourning the road not taken!!!!</p>