Access to full range of health services at church-backed school?

Parents Forum
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<p>
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Health care seems to be getting more restrictive in some areas, not just becasue insurance premiums are so high and doctors find it difficult to survive in rural areas, but because more in the health care field, feel it is their moral duty to restrict others access.

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<p>emeraldkity, I think you've just named the elephant in the room; the tone of this thread reflects the tension between those who feel it is their moral duty to restrict access and those who believe it is their moral duty to broaden access. I'm firmly in the latter camp, but I think I understand the fear, resentment, and outrage of those whose religious beliefs rule their stand on this. For those of us with kids at schools that "ignore god on a regular basis," the moral right (which I believe is neither) is a blight on the nation. I guess they see us the same way. Sigh.</p>

62

<p>
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...the tone of this thread reflects the tension between those who feel it is their moral duty to restrict access and those who believe it is their moral duty to broaden access.

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<p>Oh, please. No one in this thread has expressed the desire to restrict your kid's access to anything. And I would love to see a complete listing of all these cases in which pharmacists are refusing to fill prescriptions. My guess is that it is not very long, although long on use for propaganda purposes; just like your injection of people's "religious beliefs" into the discussion. The point I was trying to make was that it wouldn't bother me if my kid had to walk or drive or even take public transportation to a drug store if he wants to buy condoms. </p>

<p>The paranoia is laughable. As if the cultural taboos of our country are still denying our kids the ability to express their sexuality. Great big bad gwb is about to fulfill his dream of a fundamentalist value system in all of our public schools and colleges any minute now. No more sex! No more birth control! Enforced abstinence for all. Yep, any day now. What a joke. Take a glance at the Texas cheerleader thread, for example. I suppose there may be some teenager out there in North Dakota who isn't getting any tonight (per EK). As we all know, there is nothing worse than that. Nothing.</p>

<p>P.S. As if PP isn't a powerful lobbying group, as it has been for years. To compare that STOPP group (which I for one have never even heard of) is also laughable.</p>

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<p>I'm still waiting to hear what "birthright" was taken away from me by the bowl of condoms in my freshman dorm. There are many things on this thread that I understand, but disagree with; this one, I just don't understand.</p>

<p>"And there is such a thing as self-control, btw. Another disservice we do to our kids is implying that they have none, imo."</p>

<p>I can't speak for other kids, but when I decided to become sexually active in college, it had nothing whatsoever to do with a lack of self-control. It was a deliberate and intentional -- in fact, joyful and positive -- choice. I disagree with any suggestion of a dichotomy between sexual activity and self-control.</p>

<p>"The paranoia is laughable."</p>

<p>This country has a raging epidemic of unplanned pregnancies and STD's among young people that's unique in the developed world, even though European/Australian/Canadian/Japanese college kids have just as much sex as ours do. Their kids just have better access to family planning information and materials than ours do. The result we fear for American kids is already here; I don't see how it's paranoid to be worried about something that's already happening. We're scared that it's going to get worse. This is not a fear of kids repressing their sexuality; it's a fear that they will keep right on expressing it without taking precautions.</p>

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<p>
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It was a deliberate and intentional -- in fact, joyful and positive -- choice. I disagree with any suggestion of a dichotomy between sexual activity and self-control.

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So presumably you planned & took precautions, right? HH (and others, including myself) assume our kids CAN exercise self-control & good judgment. Like you did.</p>

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<p>Sure, I did. But I got into Harvard, too, and I don't believe that every one of our kids is going to do that. Do you?</p>

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<p>
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For those of us with kids at schools that "ignore god on a regular basis," the moral right (which I believe is neither) is a blight on the nation. I guess they see us the same way. Sigh.

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Pretty harsh, there, celloguy. You view religious schools as restricting access to contraceptives. Actrually, they are just not supplying contraceptives. They're exercising their right to promote & foster behaviors that are in keeping with their beliefs. It would be rather hypocritical to provide birth control if your faith's doctrines preach against pre-marital sex. A rather confusing message.</p>

<p>Save your application fee cash and don't let your kids apply to schools that fail to put fishbowls full of condoms in the dorms. It's that simple. Really.</p>

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<p>What a tempest in a teapot this thread is! Sure, I believe that students should have easy access to the full range of goods and services that will help them avoid pregnancy, STDs, and abuse for that matter when they are expressing their sexuality in the way most of them do. And I don't think that giving them access to that stuff makes them sexually irresponsible. Plenty of them are sexually irresponsible, but that's with or without condoms in the bathrooms.</p>

<p>At the same time, I refuse to get huffy about institutions that are affiliated with specific religious groups that have views different from mine about sexuality. I expect such institutions to carry their principles and values over into the health services they offer to students. Everyone should expect that. Who would ask them to do otherwise? If the students or their parents don't like it, they shouldn't have been attending that college in the first place (or they should be grinning and bearing it as part of the package that produced the college they choose to attend). No one is being bamboozled into choosing a Catholic or evangelical college, as far as I can tell (and if someone has been bamboozled into that, putting condoms in the bathrooms is not likely to do him or her much good).</p>

<p>EDIT: On this, at least, I agree with Sticker Shock. My kids weren't interested in those colleges, for this and other reasons. I didn't waste my application dollars on them. But if my kids wanted to go to BC or Holy Cross or wherever, I would consider this part of the package.</p>

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<p>What's your point, Hanna? Not everyone gets into Harvard so not everyone will use good judgment? Only Harvard kids will? LOL! Self-control is just a matter of odds? I don't buy that for a minute.</p>

<p>You already stated that you "disagree with any suggestion of a dichotomy between sexual activity and self-control." I STRONGLY disagree with that statement. In fact, it takes enormous self-control to supress one's sex drive when it is inappropriate or dangerous to exercise it & the climate/culture is telling you "Go right ahead...Here's a bowl of condoms." Choosing when and with whom to have sex is ALL about self-control.</p>

69

<p>JHS: When in Rome....</p>

<p>All part of fit. In any case, if parents are assuming their kids are going to be sexually active, why on earth would they want an overworked college clinic employee to handle all the health care concerns? Wouldn't it be prudent to have the doc who has known the kid for years & handled all her health issues to educate/vaccinate/prescribe what is needed?</p>

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<p>"What's your point, Hanna? Not everyone gets into Harvard so not everyone will use good judgment?"</p>

<p>My point was that not everyone gets into Harvard AND not everyone uses good judgment. You said that you and others assume that your kids (all kids?) can and will do what I did. I think that's a foolish assumption. I've done lots of things other kids can't do, and vice versa. (If you view getting into Harvard as "just a matter of odds," then substitute the skill or achievement of your choice in post #65.)</p>

<p>"Choosing when and with whom to have sex is ALL about self-control."</p>

<p>Sure, but it's possible to be exercising tremendous self-control and have tons of sex. The fact that a person is having sex every night does not mean that she lacks self-control...even if she's an unmarried college student.</p>

<p>"Wouldn't it be prudent to have the doc who has known the kid for years..."</p>

<p>Well, mine was a thousand miles away when I was in college, and I didn't go home in the summers, so that wouldn't have been a good solution. Anyway, the only doctor who'd known me for years when I was 18 was my pediatrician, and while I trusted him, fitting diaphragms was not his forte.</p>

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You said that you and others assume that your kids (all kids?) can and will do what I did.

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Nope. Didn't say that at all. I said they "CAN." Other posters have implied that self-control is not possible. </p>

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Sure, but it's possible to be exercising tremendous self-control and have tons of sex.

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Not if it is unprotected. True self-control would involve having partners tested and taking precautions. And understanding the consequences when those precautions fail. Or the relationship fails.</p>

<p>Every 18 year old girl should have visited a GYN by that age. Preferably one trusted and recommended by her pediatrition.</p>

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<p>
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So presumably you planned & took precautions, right? HH (and others, including myself) assume our kids CAN exercise self-control & good judgment. Like you did.

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</p>

<p>How is going to the college health center for birth control not exercising self-control and good judgment? That's what I still don't get.</p>

<p>JHS: I agree with you on the Catholic colleges. In fact, son #1 applied to several Jesuit colleges, and my kids attend a Jesuit high school. And yes - I "grin and bear" what I consider to be the anti-women stances of many of the Catholic church teachings. And, as I stated earlier, had my son attended one of those excellent schools I would simply have made sure he had EASY access to birth control if he needed it. (Although, of course, like most parents, I have advised my children NOT to need it - I'd really prefer they were studying!) Anyway, do I demand that the Catholic colleges supply this stuff? No. But I think parents should be aware and concerned that they won't.</p>

<p>That aside, I think people have to be aware of where the line is drawn (or not drawn, as the case may be). For instance, in New York State the Catholic church made an aggressive attempt to deny all their female employees health insurance coverage for birth control and other female health services. (It was overturned by a court. A similar push was made in California.)</p>

<p>The recent appointment by Bush of anti-birth control, anti-sex education hardliner Dr. Eric Keroack to oversee family and women's health programs at Health and Human Services Department shows again how this stuff trickles down to real women (and men). That organization provides critical funds to Planned Parenthood (and other organizations) to provide not only contraceptive services, but all women's health services.</p>

<p>We can talk abstractly about this stuff - but real people's lives are involved. Are they necessarily the most organized, wealthy, mature people in the world? (And would our college kids fit in those categories?) Probably not. But deserving of care none the less.</p>

<p>I just can't figure out how parents can justify prohibiting or discouraging contraceptive services at college health centers anymore than you'd prohibit antibiotics or sports injury care. Are these things not all health care? Maybe somebody could make an argument that since there's a drug store in town and a hospital in the region and some doctors around somewhere they don't need a health center at all. But I think that's a pretty dumb plan.</p>

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<p>How funny that the lack of access to birth control for 18-21 years olds would totally ex out the consideration of a Catholic college for some people. </p>

<p>It would be fun to do a study of just how bad the sex lives of Catholic kids turn out to be. Seems to me I remember a few little ditties about Catholic girls...;) (even before the days of sexual health clinics)...but wait, why hasn't the Catholic population exploded in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries because Catholic kids HAD NO ACCESS to birth control??? Confusing, isn't it?</p>

<p>Hanna: Your points are ones of the usual liberal condescension. People on any lower educational of socio-economic rung of life than you are just not able to take care of themselves, are they? (No offense personally, because I understand you mean well.)</p>

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<p>hereshoping: "why hasn't the Catholic population exploded in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries because Catholic kids HAD NO ACCESS to birth control??? Confusing, isn't it?"</p>

<p>-- Could it be because most Catholics are in fact not good Catholics? That they say one thing "no premarital sex, no contraceptives, no abortion" but in fact live in societies where all 3 are prevalent?</p>

<p>BTW, Many Catholic populations HAVE exploded. Mexico, for one. It's only in western Europe where that isn't the case.</p>

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<p>my Ds go to a Jesuit HS...everyyear, they take the sophmores and they all watch She Too Young, about syphllis...and they talk about responsibilty, but the attitude isn't just abstinance only...</p>

<p>Catholic kids have access...jeesh...Catholics don't live in caves...and "good catholics"...that is kind of a strange term</p>

<p>When you have so many people of other religions who claim to be "virgins" who are doing "everything but" who risk STDs etc because they are in denial, i just feel sad</p>

<p>My D may well go to a Jesuit College, I have thought about this issue, and before she goes, I would make sure that she knew where the clinics, etc were and that before she left she had all the "information and supplies" she MIGHT need...I DO wish it was more available at this school, the school does so much good in other social areas...but maybe it is going to take the student population stepping up and ASKING to change the old ways, as well as the parents, who will someday be alumni donors, and those alumni NOW</p>

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<p>I personally think Hanna hit it right on the head.</p>

<p>I'm willing to let my kids grow up and take many responsibilities. But that's with the assumption that, occasionally, they'll screw it up. Because that's what kids do. As this is the parent forum, I assume we all know that.</p>

<p>Now, when a kid screws up his grades, it's not the end of the world. It's a learning experience. Don't want to do your homework today? Put off that research a bit too long? Guess you'll find out what happens. Speeding tickets, fights with friends, doing laundry, eating habits - they mess up, they pay the consequences, they learn. Fine. That's life.</p>

<p>But as Hanna said, if a kid makes one of these bad decisions regarding contraception, it's a much scarier proposition. Personally, I'm not willing to just let my son impregnate someone or contract herpes and chalk it up to a life lesson. You're absolutely right in saying that a kid should not have sex unless they're mature enough to do it responsibly. But who are we fooling? We've seen the evidence - in our own homes - that things don't always go the way they should.</p>

<p>Let me put it this way. Say you're riding in the passenger seat of a car your kid is driving. The roads are bad, and you see he/she is not wearing a seat belt. Do you ignore it? I'm betting not. I'm betting you, at the very least, offer a gentle reminder. Why? Because the possible alternative is death. Serious enough to step in. Same thing here.</p>

<p>BTW, college kids have lots of sex. Much of it is unwise sex - at the very least in the sense that it is unplanned and casual. Your son or daughter may escape that. If so, he/she will be far wiser than most. Personally, I knew damn well I should use birth control when I was younger. But I generally didn't. Peer pressure and unapproachable parents did the trick there. I luckily escaped the STD route, but I did end up pregnant. And I promise you, I'm a brilliant person, enough so that I should have known better. And I did. Fat lot of good it did me. So yes, I will absolutely purchase condoms for my son before he goes away to college. Heck, I'll buy them for him in high school if he's too embarrassed and needs them. That doesn't mean I condone casual sex. It means I'm too young to be a grandma.</p>

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<p>I volunteer for Planned Parenthood which has a clinic located near Villanova and Eastern Universities and Cabrini College. I have always assumed that the location of the clinic was planned not just to service the general public but to be within walking distance of the three schools. A student would have to go to another facility for a termination but they are able to receive contraception and other information not provided at their respective campus health clinics. </p>

<p>From the Villanova website:

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Because of the values of Villanova University as a Catholic, Augustinian school, the Student Health Center, as a matter of policy, does not provide materials on preventing conception or that encourage termination of pregnancy.

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<p>katliamom: I was being facetious. I was trying to make the point that, somehow, not every girl who has ever attended a Catholic college or high school had graduated pregnant. :)</p>

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In fact, my son #1 applied to several Jesuit colleges, and yes - I "grin and bear" what I consider to be the anti-women stances of the Catholic Church teachings.

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<p>As an arch liberal, why not send your kids to public school, which teaches values in alignment with yours? You could give the tuition money to a devout inner-city Hispanic family, for example, who might be thrilled to be able to send their kids to a Catholic school. Your statement makes my skin crawl.</p>

<p>Hey, so does
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I didn't waste my application dollars on them.

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I just realized.</p>

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<p>As an aside: when you tuck those condoms in your son's suitcase, you may want to tell him not to let on Mom put them there. May be a bit of a turnoff for the gf. Just sayin'. ;)</p>