<p>What is really weird (and will work against the OP S) is that the other student copied every single exam question exactly verbatim from the OP S. He didn’t deviate once from the OP.</p>
<p>Any student who is copying answers without being in collaboration with the other student knows this is a bad idea as it looks really obvious that you copied. It was common knowledge in my high school and in college that if you were going to copy another students work, you make at least a few mistakes to ensure the professor couldn’t claim it was a straight copy.</p>
<p>The OP really needs to talk with the other student to find out what happened. After all, if collusion did occur, all he’d have to do is tell the Dean of Students that collusion occured and it’d throw the case right out of the window.</p>
<p>You do realize that when doctors, lawyers, and engineers take the professional examination to give them the license, the same statistical method is used to identify those who colluded during the examination, right? The professional licenses are frequently denied to people that have too similiar exam results. </p>
<p>This practice has been used in a court of law several times and has stood up to legal scrutiny.</p>
<p>Well we have the meeting with the attorney Friday, so we will see what he has to say and go from there. If we meet with the attorney and he doesn’t think the odds look good, I’d like to hear your opinions on handling the high school situation. The dean told me the principal does not have to include the WF on the transcript. I also talked to my neighbor today (who just so happens to be the ex-superintendent of about 25 years). The principal told me this is an F and my son would get a referral to the guidance counselors office (first offense) and would not be allowed to participate in NHS, junior marshall, etc. Shouldn’t the punishment of being given a failing grade and having to drop the class be punishment enough? Isn’t that a form of discipline? My neighbor told me the principal is “the gatekeeper” and can pretty much do what he wants. I am ready to proceed another way and make visits to the current superintent, school board, whatever we need to do. When I mentioned to the dean what the principal said about the guidance referral and being excluded from those opportunities, he said “Well I know that all high schools do not handle it that way.” I feel it is enough being punished by the university, especially under these circumstances. Any arguments you can suggest in favor of that being the only punishment would be appreciated.</p>
<p>The timing could indicate copying. If there was no pencil/paper available to write down answers so that you could do a lag, then the cheater would have to keep up with the person being copied with or have a very good memory of the answer letters.</p>
<p>I think that the format of the display is important. Was the test of the type where there are small characters where you type in the answer or where there are large buttons for each answer where you click the button, it highlights and then you confirm the answer. The latter could probably be seen a good distance away</p>
<p>That’s highly school specific so I don’t know how to give any advice. </p>
<p>At my high school, a single F did not prevent students from participating in activities. It took a bunch of bad grades. I also think that taking the WF should be sufficient punishment for the student and I would like to believe that what goes on in a college/university shouldn’t affect what a student can do in high school, but I don’t know your S’s school.</p>
<p>Show me where that is the ONLY evidence presented to prove guilt. In fact, someone earlier in this thread mentioned that these cases have been thrown out in court before as well.</p>
<p>I will tell you that people who study together will have a stronger correlation of both correct and incorrect answers than those who don’t study together. And the greater percentage of study time spent together, the greater these correlations will be. </p>
<p>If you gave everyone in John F. Kennedy’s cabinet the same intellegence files and didn’t have them discuss it before the decision for the Bay of Pigs was made, the vote wouldn’t have been as unanimously wrong. The fact that they worked together to misinterpret the intellegence caused them to get the collective wrong answer as to how to deal with Castro.</p>
<p>About added punishment for an F by the high school (ie: concerning NHS, etc.), look at your high school handbook and carefully read all of the rules. See if it is clearly spelled out. If it isn’t clear, then you might have a chance to negotiate, IMO. If the rules for an F clearly discuss what happens regarding NHS, then I don’t think one can fault the principal for carrrying out the rules that are to be followed for all students. JMO. Good luck!</p>
<p>If I decide to fight I would not fight for a W. I would fight for a letter grade based on the test results that my son deserves if this is not my son’s fault. I may sue the HS school too.</p>
<p>I may ask the other kid to tell me whether my son collaborated with him or not to confirm whether I should fight (I am not sure this is wise or not).</p>
If a kid had cheated off of my son, and my son told me that he hadn’t collaborated, I wouldn’t go to the other kid (a presumed cheat) to confirm my son’s story. From the son’s perspective, if his own parents won’t believe him and would go behind his back to the culprit, taking the culprit’s word over his own… then where can he turn?</p>
<p>If the penalty for a WF is going to be the same as the penalty for a “guilty” F, then I would still fight. If the son feels strongly about fighting this even after he understands that it’s very possible to lose, then I would fight hard. First with the college, then if necessary with the high school.</p>
<p>I’m not going to question smom123’s conviction that her son didn’t cheat. I think it’s likely that he’s an innocent victim of “shoulder-hopping” by the other student, who I’m guessing always managed to find a seat behind her son with a reasonably clear view of his screen. Not that hard to look forward at a screen in the row or two ahead without drawing the proctor’s attention.</p>
<p>I will point out another collaborative scenario that I haven’t seen mentioned so far: IM or chat. The computers have to be able to reach an external Web site in order to take the university-hosted test. If they can reach somecollege.edu/sometestsite, they may also reach facebook.com or some other site that has a chat feature. No cell phones required.</p>
<p>CardinalFang, as I’ve thought more about this, your statistical analysis in post 177 does seem more rational than mine. Taking the test answer pattern of the OP’s son as a given, what are the odds that one or more other (independently taken) tests had an exact or nearly exact same answer pattern? I based my calculations on the cheating paper referenced by BCEagle; did you look at this? </p>
<p>smom123 - you and your husband need to arrange for a meeting with you, your husband, your son, the principal and the superintendent.
You all need to be in the same room and discuss this. You also might want to consider having your attorney present.</p>
<p>“If a kid had cheated off of my son, and my son told me that he hadn’t collaborated, I wouldn’t go to the other kid (a presumed cheat) to confirm my son’s story. From the son’s perspective, if his own parents won’t believe him and would go behind his back to the culprit, taking the culprit’s word over his own… then where can he turn?”</p>
<p>The reason to go to the other kid is to find out the method of cheating, which we are presuming OP’s son does not know.</p>
<p>If you are going to fight it smom, make sure that you have the complete story from your own son first. I would not ask the other kid a thing; leave that to the attorney, who should be with you on every step you take, if you fight. </p>
<p>I have taken statistics too, and although we know that it is unlikely for things to happen (e.g. 50 heads in a row in a coin toss), that does not mean that it is impossible. For every question on a multiple choice type test, there are only 4 or 5 answers, and each stands alone. I agree with goalie dad that the classroom experience could have influenced the wrong picks, but the case where other kid did badly when your son was not there indicates that other kid may have cheated. Do not presume that the other kid did not see the screen of your son through the network. I am not an IT person, but I am responsible for the computers in my small office, and I have had others “drive” my computer from a remote location when I got outside tech support. This could have been set up in advance by “other kid”. Additionally, it would make sense to cheat off the best student’s work, if you were going to cheat.</p>
<p>I wish you the best of luck. I really hate to read about a problem like this, because there is no easy solution.</p>
<p>The test computers should have their IP logs reviewed for activity during the test.
I am also curious if the test program logs the times that answers are entered.</p>
<p>The twin facts of the cheat not including a couple of distractors, and the wrong answers being <em>so</em> wrong, I cannot help but think a part of this story is missing. Perhaps we are dealing with a test answer sheet known before-hand, but a number of questions changed ?</p>
<p>Reading over the OP’s posts again, this one here is a big red flag. She doesn’t think her S would turn the other student in under any circumstances.</p>
<p>If someone used his exam to cheat from without his knowledge, why wouldn’t he want that person turned in? Most students whose exams are copied are upset and have no problem turning in the other student for cheating if the right circumstances arose. And especially so if the actions of the other student are causing the S to fail.</p>
<p>The OP S also stated there was no opportunity to cheat during the exams. I think that rules out computers being behind one another or screens being visible from nearby stations. There are only 5 kids in the class and the proctor doesn’t let them sit near each other.</p>
<p>Clearly, the other student needs to fill in some of the details. In the other students opinion, did the OP S help provide answers? Was this a collaboration? Or did he simply carefully copy three exams?</p>
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<p>No wonder if the other student copied from you student. But, he will have to deal with it because it’s not going away for your S as easily.</p>
<p>If the other student’s fate is sealed (he has already taken the WF), there is no advantage to him not coming clean – other than having to answer questions and the associated discomfit. Heck, it will give him a chance to boast a bit, since the method remained undiscovered.</p>
<p>As BigTree says though, if student #1 is complicit, both kids will likely not want details to come out.</p>
<p>"I don’t think he would turn the student in under any circumstances, honestly. " Perhaps he should read the honor code then, since one circumstance typically demanded of students is to volunteer whatever cheating information they are aware of.</p>
<p>The proffered WF is looking better with each additional post by OP. I have to say, that if I was the prof and the family started wasting my time to negotiate down the WF to a W, I would counter with an honor code violation as teh just reward.</p>