<p>For everyone’s sake do not bring a lawyer into this. When you do that, you will eliminate any easy communications between student/mom and professor/dean. To communicate, you will have to talk to your lawyer, who will then talk to their lawyer, who will then talk to them. Their lawyer will be more their advocate rather than trying to get to the truth of the matter. Academics are interested in truth; use that to your advantage. </p>
<p>Consolation had a good point about just providing a simple story. S did not cheat, did not know how the other student copied his answers, and thought the proctor would ensure that no cheating could occur especially with so few students in the room. S is mystified at what other measures he should take to avoid someone else copying his answers.</p>
And did those 50-100 students in other parts of the world study with and share offline resources with the 2 in the classroom? </p>
<p>If I have 2 red delicious apples and 100 green grannysmith apples, that doesn’t mean that apples are supposed to be green. It just means that I am comparing two disparate samples.</p>
<p>Consolation’s approach is a slick way of saying “I didn’t do it, prove I’m lying.”
This will not fly in my opinion, and the increased risks involved in losing should make OP very cautious in accepting this advice.</p>
<p>I can see why the professor would take a more detailed look at the possibility of cheating with those stats, but those stats are just a possibility, not a forgone conclusion, as if it seems he/she is treating them. When you factor in that the proctor is willing to “testify” that they witnessed no cheating then you have to go a different route. Right now, as far as I am concerned - and no one is asking me - you have 3 people against 1. One professor with “stats” saying yes cheating occurred, and 2 students and a proctor that say no. Some of the other “evidence” is circumstantial at best. Logging on and off times? really. I’m sure that other students in similar testing situations also log on and off at the same time. I assume the proctor has some say in when they start and they probably start at the same time, right after the proctor allows them to, or right after the school bell rings. Also, it’s not far-fetched to think that students would log off at the same time either. The proctor says it almost time or time and they log off, or the school bell goes off. In the case of the two tests taken at different times - did the logging on and off follow the same pattern as before?</p>
<p>The problem with the stats as given is that they concentrate on only the two students with little information on the other students. This is not a complete picture. To get a better picture of what is going on, not only would stats for this class for all students and the percentage that each question was missed be looked at and considered for each test, you’d have to look at other on-line courses to see if a pattern emerged based on computers being used and any correlation to other circumstances.</p>
<p>I’ll agree that the stats make a case for cheating, but they do not prove it. The school can say it does, but that is their opinion, which unfortunately carries a lot of weight in this case. Considering the severe consequences of the alleged conduct and the circumstantial nature of the evidence, I am surprised that the professor would not allow them to retake the last test and see what they really know. It does seem that the professor is more vested in seeing the cheating allegations through than seeing justice.</p>
<p>My only problem with the attorney at this point is that the school’s “governing body” will, in all likelihood, not pay any attention to any of his/her arguments. His/Her services will only be valuable if this gets to a court of law, which I feel you will have a better case for no cheating - but I think it will take going that far. If the outcome ends up being detrimental to you, you will sue the correct entities for “damages” and hopefully as part of the settlement, the cheating will be erased.</p>
<p>Good Luck, I hope the truth in this situation sees the light of day for all involved.</p>
<p>The thing about the “I didn’t cheat but maybe the other kid cheated off of me” defense is that, really, why does the administration have any reason to believe that Kid A cheated off Kid B instead of Kid B cheating off Kid A? It may “look guilty” that Kid B accepted that withdraw-fail, but considering the harsh consequence if the kid made his case and still was found guilty, it’s entirely possible someone innocent would have accepted the WF. Heck, we’re having a discussion about that very thing right here!</p>
<p>What seems very odd to me is that the tests both started and ended (? I think?) at the exact same time. Yeah, they’re taking a test in a room together, but . . . if it’s down to the exact same minute, or the same second, that’s very, very unusual. EVEN IF THERE WAS CHEATING, that’s very strange. (If it’s just “within a few minutes of each other”, then not so strange.)</p>
<p>And now that I hear they were the only two students taking that particular test in that room, I wonder if the real problem isn’t with the software. Does your son receive copies of completed tests, so he can look at what he got right/wrong and confirm that those are the answers he actually picked? If they are, it might be worth it to confer with the other student and confirm that the questions he was marked off on were also the answers he picked. If one of the students says, “Whoa, wait, I know I answered ‘B. They don’t buy the survivors’ on #23,” then that would explain a lot.</p>
<p>Hopefully this whole thing is over. This has been the longest week of my life. My child is going to take the WF. The principal has assured me he won’t count it in his GPA and it won’t count as an “F” to prevent him from being junior marshall, etc. We had a long talk today and I argued that I thought it was unfair because this was the first time the high school had encountered this and there was no policy in place for dealing with it and he should not use him as the example, that he should look at ways to assure this kind of thing couldn’t happen again. He did not earn this F because he didn’t do work, failed tests, or was “witnessed” cheating by a teacher. I told him we felt we were being forced to accept the WF with him being a junior and only a few weeks of school left, and that we were told by the dean we couldn’t negotiate for a W because it was after March; basically, that I felt he was being screwed from every angle. On top of all this, last night my son received a text from another student asking if he wanted the answers to the pre-cal test. My son told him no and asked if he had a copy of the test, and he said no, that one of the other students who had already taken the test gave him the answers. My son saved/locked these messages in his phone. So now is my son obligated to turn this student in? What a nightmare! This has really opened my eyes and at this point my son is ready to be locked in a room alone to take any future tests, and I wouldn’t have a problem with that! Thanks to everyone for your help and for the messages that others didn’t want to post. It helped more than you know.</p>
<p>Cheating is so rampant in schools. Definitely turn in the cheater. I wonder how many kids who cheated are now in the great schools other non cheaters didn’t get into. I have raised my children with the motto “don’t lie, cheat or steal, or tolerate those who do”. Unfortunately, her school doesn’t enforce the second part of this.</p>
<p>I thought there were something like 450 students taking the course.</p>
<p>And it wasn’t just the statistics that were consistent with cheating. It was the statistics PLUS the presence of the two students in the same room PLUS the fact that they knew each other and the proctor, PLUS the fact that it happened a number of times and didn’t happen a number of times (including when they did not take the test at the same time).</p>
<p>The professor has strong evidence of cheating. But how could he ever be able to prove the collaboration of the better student, who is ALWAYS able to argue “I didn’t know about it. I had no reason to cheat.” There are 50,000 reasons why the better student may have accommodated the worse one, but none of them will possibly be known to anyone outside their community.</p>
<p>Whether or not your son is obligated to turn in the kid who is cheating on the calculus test depends on what the rules on cheating are at the high school. Not all schools require students who are aware of but not involved in cheating to report it. I think speaking up is the only right course of action here, but it may not be required.</p>
<p>That said, I think your son would be a fool not to turn the cheater in at the earliest possible opportunity. There is some evidence that he cheats (even if it’s not conclusive and even if he doesn’t) and the school knows it. What happens if the other kid gets caught and names your son as someone who knew about what was happening? How will it look if – right after he is accused, protests his innocence, and avoids a formal judgment that he cheated – evidence surfaces from a completely different source that he may have been involved in a separate plan to cheat? People who believe in him now may stop believing in him. And that is not in his best interest.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether your kid’s school makes your kid obligated to report the kid who’s cheating—and encouraging others to cheat—on the pre-calculus test, I believe he’s go a <em>moral</em> obligation to turn the cheater in by reporting the cheater to the pre-calc teacher and/or the principal and showing them the text messages.</p>
<p>Kids cheat because they no longer see it as wrong.</p>
<p>Kids cheat because they think everybody does it.</p>
<p>Kids cheat because no-one ever gets caught.</p>
<p>Kids cheat because cheating doesn’t hurt anybody.</p>
<p>And the kids are WRONG, but they won’t start seeing being academic honesty as being something honorable unless the grownups in their life start reinforcing that being honorable is important.</p>
<p>I think that going to the teacher with this would work. There’s no proof that the person that sent the email actually has the test answers but the teacher could just change the test without telling anyone or confront the student. The thing about confronting the student is that that student would then most likely know that the OP’s son was the person that told the teacher.</p>
<p>Bringing an attorney into the situation is to find out what the situation truly is. Are there rules regulating this? Can statistical sameness be interpreted as cheating? What are the options for the student? Sometimes, the best path to take is to “plead” and “negotiate” a settlement. My kids have learned the hard way that justice is not always just. Two of them are still sore about having to plead to something they did not do because the sure consequence was a slap on the hand, and there was a high probability of real trouble, expense and consequences of insisting on total vindication because they were not guilty of some stupid thing. </p>
<p>Turning in a cheater is not always an easy thing to do either. You have to know for sure the person cheated, and if it can be proven. You can end up being a “snitch” without making a dent on the situation if you are not smart about when you report something. This applies in adult life too.</p>
<p>The Honor Code at West Point is simple. It says, “A Cadet does not lie, cheat or steal, or tolerate those who do”.
All incoming cadets are schooled extensively in the Honor code and it’s application. They say that the most difficult part is getting across to kids the non-toleration clause.
These days those who have knowledge and report somehow are under the impression that it is “snitching”.<br>
Cheating should not be tolerated. To tolerate it is to condone it.
Morally and ethically he should turn in his classmate.</p>
<p>Sometimes you don’t know for sure that cheating is occurring. You’ll be doing an awful lot of snitching in school if you are turning in classmates for infractions. Common sense needs to be there. Even at the military academies there are balancing acts regarding the Honor Code. Every so often an episode is not reported that flushes everyone out. What is not reported is when a cheat cannot be confirmed and whoever reported it gets the rep of a snitch. Not a good label when you are going to be out in the field with someone having to guard your back.</p>
<p>Your son would have been better off remaining ignorant. Time he learned to stay out of way of trouble, no ?
I would counsel him to notify the teacher that the answer sheet is ‘out’ based on hearsay.</p>
<p>You’re very welcome. I’m so glad the principal is willing to work with your family. I would also caution others who are considering having their child take an on-line class with this professor to ask that their child be tested alone. I’d demand it and pay for extra for it if I had too. I think the way your son has been treated is disgraceful and there have been professors on this thread who agreed.</p>
<p>Please convey to your son how proud you are of him for turning in other cheaters. He really has no other choice unless he wants to be in this position again for failing to say anything. Cheaters hurt all students, including your son. I wish your son the very best of luck.</p>
<p>I don’t know that I’d say that ignorance is the better answer, but I do like Eric’s suggestion of telling the teacher that the answer sheet is “out” based on what he’s heard. </p>
<p>Frankly, I think it is educational malpractice in most high schools to give the same test to multiple sections of a course over multiple days, or to use the same tests year after year, but teachers do it all the time.</p>