<p>Seems like there are several ways to prove that cheating did occur, but darn few to prove that it didn’t.</p>
<p>The evidence you provided in post #108 is overwhelming. I’m sorry.</p>
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<p>Threre is one other thing about this “statistical study” that is missing.</p>
<p>So S1 and S2 have a 95+% overlap of matching incorrect answers. What were the next closest overlapping pairs of students taking the exam? Perhaps students 7 and 8 had 70% overlap of matching incorrect answers. Did they have the same misunderstanding of the same material in the questions or were they just not as effective of cheaters? </p>
<p>What I am saying here is that there are two possible reasons why students would get the same wrong answers. Did the professor ask whether these students studied together or not? If they were working off of the same incorrect recorded class notes (group think here) it is highly likely that they got the exact same wrong answers. Nothing illegal about that at all.</p>
<p>And the bigger point I’m trying to make is that while statistics may prove that the 2 students had the same understanding of the incorrect answers, statistics do not explain whether that understanding of the incorrect answers came during the test or before the test. The whole underlying study is invalid when you do not isolate for the subjects acting independently before the testing occurs.</p>
<p>This professor should be laughed out of the university if he depends wholly upon statistics to make a judgement without knowing how the data have been (or not) affected before measurement. </p>
<p>I’ve been taking a class this semester with a coworker. We sit next to each other. We work on labs together and typically get the same score (and screw up the same things causing lots of rework and a bit of shared laughter with the instructor). We also copy each other’s notes after class to make sure we didn’t miss things. We also get similar test scores and I think we often miss the same questions (although we don’t go question by question - just complain about how tricky X question was). We’ve never been accused of cheating and I wouldn’t expect the professor to ever make that accusation.</p>
<p>One last point to make regarding taking tests on a computer in a classroom - Given that the proctor did not report that conditions during the test suggested cheating (copying answers), did the professor actually interview the proctor to find out where the 2 students were situated during the testing and whether the 2 positions would allow one or both to have the opportunity to see the other’s screen? </p>
<p>If OP’s son sat in the first row and the other child sat in the second row, it is highly improbably that OP’s son could possibly have engaged in cheating. First, he couldn’t have seen the other child’s screen. Second, he is not responsible for shielding his screen from people seated behind him and is not responsible for looking over his shoulder to see if people are looking at his screen. The only way for both to see each other’s answers on most screens is to be sitting side-by-side and reasonably close (most monitors have poor visibility from the side) together. Furthermore, if the students were seated at different stations (not necessarily visible) for different tests in question, it discredits his statistical proof further as lacking a method for cheating.</p>
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<p>JHS, you’re an attorney correct? </p>
<p>All I see is evidence that cheating occurred. </p>
<p>I don’t see ANY evidence that the OP’s son cheated. It doesn’t even seem more likely than not. Why does OP’s son need to prove his innocence?</p>
<p>If as goaliedad said that they studied from the same incorrect notes, they should be able to produce the notes with the incorrect information.</p>
<p>One doesn’t have to do the math looking at those numbers. That kind of similarity doesn’t happen by chance. Ever. Either both students were collaborating (which is the overwhelmingly likely answer) or one student managed to defeat the proctoring and see the other student’s answers.</p>
<p>Check the cell phone logs for your son’s phone for the time in question.</p>
<p>Goaliedad, if you and your co-worker took a multiple choice test where there were 30 questions and you each got 8 wrong, you wouldn’t get the same wrong answer for the same 8 questions, no matter how much you studied together.</p>
<p>Cell phones. Texting.</p>
<p>If I were a member of an impartial jury, I would think that as presented, OP’s classmate did cheat. As to the OP’s son, it is not so clear. Remember, circumstantial evidence is evidence. If you are accused of wrongdoing, presentation of exculpatory evidence, eg. no phone log of texts etc., would be evidence of not doing wrong. I think the idea that a saavy kid could somehow see the OP’s son’s test via the network is entirely possible. How can that be verified? Isn’t there a tech person who has records for the computers and can see if a go to my pc or rescue or pc anywhere type program was used to capture the answers? If it was, the proctor would be none the wiser from a cursory view. The proctor would have to actually look at each student’s screen a good portion of the time to see if this happened, which is unlikely.</p>
<p>On a practical level, it may be best to just try to get a withdrawn notation. There are more than a few profs who won’t let people drop classes, even for legitimate reasons, and relish putting an F on someone’s transcript. When I graduated college, my friend did not get a diploma in her envelope because a prof did not let her drop after a deadline. She did not even know she was getting an F. I had an experience where a Dean had to beg a professor to let me drop a course (no tests taken, during a drop period), because in that profs division, drops were no longer permitted (although they were in mine.) I think that to say dropped while failing is not substantiated, and you might be able to pursue that. I don’t think you will win otherwise, unless you can get proof of some high tech interference by the other kid.</p>
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<p>Yes, it looks like cheating occurred and the role the OP’s son played is completely unknown. However, the standards surrounding the burden of proof that hold in a courtroom don’t necessarily hold in this situation. If the professor establishes that cheating occurred I don’t know that his burden extends beyond that. The school must have a policy about what happens next.</p>
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<p>Interesting. So your theory is that because the exam was proctored, then it would take collaboration for cheating to occur. Why do you think it is less likely that one student managed to defeat the proctoring and see the others answers?</p>
<p>Pea: Except the difference between a cheater and a victim is so huge that I think that one has to be presumed innocent without specific evidence. A WF is a pretty bad stain to take if you are a victim.</p>
<p>The class is an online class where the students take exams at remote locations. The professor is expected to maintain academic integrity even though he has no control over the environment where the students take exams.</p>
<p>My feeling is the standard for proving academic dishonesty will be relatively low. The professor can’t be responsible for what goes on in the proctoring site but he still is responsible to ensure that the students he taught know the material after completing the course. The Dean of Students at the university will generally back the professors right to prevent cheating students from successfully completing the course.</p>
<p>A nice paper with a similar real-world example and numeric probabilities.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cluteinstitute-onlinejournals.com/PDFs/2004241.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cluteinstitute-onlinejournals.com/PDFs/2004241.pdf</a></p>
<p>I have been unable to actually find software that does this analysis (putting cheat in a search window brings up all kinds of stuff on marital infidelity and catching a spouse in the act) but it’s referenced enough in papers so that there’s probably free software out there to do this.</p>
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<p>That’s because you’re not cheating. Similiar scores and similiar papers are common. Identical scores with identical wrong answers is not common.</p>
<p>Had you photocopied a lab assignment and turned it in with your name on top, then you might be accused of cheating because that lab assignment would be identical to your friends.</p>
<p>I ran into a piece of software called SecureExam. It requires a fingerprint reader for student authentication and also uses the laptop videocam to record the testing session. I don’t recall whether it records the screen contents.</p>
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<p>I agree with most of this. There is strong evidence that cheating occurred and that the tests were compromised. Without proof that OP’s son cheated, or a virtual admission of guilt by taking the “plea bargain”, the best course of action would be to make the OP’s son retake those tests alone. This way the professor can be sure that the material was indeed mastered. However, if OP’s son does not withdraw, there is little evidence to prove that HE cheated, and I think he should get the benefit of the doubt.</p>
<p>Although it is unlikely that so many like answers occur by chance on tests, it is possible. Yes, even a one in a million chance can occur. Since the tests were multiple choice, it is certainly possible that someone hit the same sequences. I don’t consider this proof positive. In addition, the proctor did not see any cheating and he was in the room. I think I would see an attorney about this.</p>
<p>Be aware if you have signed anything that permits this sort of thing. Also be aware that if another kid cheated off of your son somehow, unfortunately the way it works is that your son is equally liable. That happened to a sweet, but air headed kid we knew who was smart as can be but not aware, that had someone cheat off of him without his knowing. The other kid admitted the cheating. Both kids were penalized. Them was the rules.</p>
<p>I’m sorry this has happened. IT really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.</p>
<p>Actually, I don’t think the proctor is on the OP’s son’s side here. If the students are separated and watched, how easy would it be for one student to repeatedly look at the other student’s work without either the proctor or the other student noticing? </p>
<p>I think that if you accept that the evidence shows that some cheating happened and if you also accept that the proctor wasn’t absent, incompetent, or colluding with one or both of the students, some covert form of communication is a much more plausible scenario than one student managing to see the other student’s work on multiple questions without anyone else noticing.</p>
<p>The other thing that has bugged me for awhile is that the OP says her son denies cheating and also that she doesn’t think he would turn the other student in if the other student cheated. I’ve known a lot of students who simply do not accept their schools’ definitions of what counts as cheating. The OP’s son would not be the first student I had heard of who provided answers to someone else and did not consider that to be cheating. Sure, I’ve known cheaters who just flat-out lied and said they didn’t in the hope that the charge couldn’t be proven. But I’ve also known students who told stories that made it absolutely clear that their behavior met the definition of “academic dishonesty” at their schools while at the same time they insisted that they had not cheated.</p>
<p>I’m not prepared to say that I know for certain what happened, and I’ll admit that I tend from the outset to be more receptive to professors’ claims that students have cheated than to students’ denials because I’ve seen how many disincentives there are for many professors to pursue academic dishonesty claims. (FWIW, I’m aware of that and I really try to find problems with the arguments professors make in these cases.) Maybe if I knew the boy I’d be certain that he didn’t do anything in violation of the kinds of rules that make up most colleges’ academic integrity policies. But just from the details being provided by the OP I’m having a hard time figuring out how that could be the case.</p>
<p>You do realize that if the OP and OP S fights it, that will cause the other student to get in trouble?</p>
<p>The professor offered to let both students drop the class with a WF and the Dean never finds out. If the OP S fights it with the Dean, then he will be made aware of the situation. I think that he will have to examine the other students conduct with regard to academic dishonesty, and likely the other student will have the black mark on his permenant record.</p>
<p>This wouldn’t be a bad thing if the OP S is innocent. The cheater would be punished and the OP S would get his good grade. But if the OP S isn’t innocent, you can bet that the other student will rat the OP S out once the other student talks with the Dean. Then I don’t think any attorney would be able to save the situation.</p>
<p>It strikes me that those who are railing against the professor are not only doing the OP a disservice (by encouraging her to continue to fight a losing battle) and also showing a willingness to tolerate cheating in the system generally. The reality is that a) with technology it is very easy to cheat these days (I’m told that you can do it with a wristwatch) b) cheating is rampant and c) without prejudging the child in this case, in most cases there is collaberation. Yet under the standard advocated by some here, it would be impossible to penalize ANYONE unless he was caught redhanded.</p>
<p>Sorry–not going there.</p>
<p>I just don’t think the statistical model is strong enough to support cheating. I’ve seen coincidences like this too many times. </p>
<p>As to whether someone cheated or not, there is no way to tell if neither student will say there was cheating. Many times, it does not come down to whether you believe your child or not, but whether the evidence is strong enough and there is that doubt. Reminds me of the “Winslow Boy”. I would never be sure any person did not do something and that argument of “just knowing” doesn’t hold any water for me. People are capable of doing unexpected things and having a “feeling” about these things is just not enough. </p>
<p>I would see an attorney and see if the statistical evidence is such that the conclusion is foregone. Upsetting, however, as I have hit the jackpot or crappot on some long odds at times.</p>
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<p>Actually, we usually make the exact same mistakes on the labs working independently of each other (at least I don’t think he is looking at what I’m doing), because when we screw things up, we screw up the exact same things. We have a similar background and work for the same employer. There is another pair of students in the class who also share the same employer who also make the same mistakes as each other (but not as us), and we joke with them about “is that how you do it at X employer?”</p>
<p>The point here is that we came to the labs (and presumably tests) with the same backgrounds and experiences as well as exchanging notes after class, so it is natural to expect the same results.</p>
<p>Professor needs to identify if such a condition existed between the 2 students before making a cheating accusation. And as to the test where one failed, the question is did the 2 work together before the test or not (OP’s son was excused).</p>