<p>My daughter is seriously considering a certain LAC in NJ. Upon visiting it (more than once) and reading about it, both online and in the college's own newspaper, it is evident that while this school is very expensive, their maintenance to the buildings, in particular, is severely lacking.</p>
<p>Because this particular school is such a good school for my daughter for many many reasons, she wants to apply to it ED. </p>
<p>How does a parent address this issue with the school - if at all? As parents paying full freight (over $40,000 a year) to this school (or any school), I feel I should have some kind of voice in this matter.</p>
<p>Should I discuss this prior to my daughter's application? After acceptance (I am quite confident she will get in)?</p>
<p>The onyl LAC I can think of in NJ is Drew, which looks to be quite well maintained (I have driven past it many times and occasionally attended events at its beautiful theater). If a school looks shabby, it may reflect financial stress, or you may have caught it on a bad day. I know dorms, even those described as "palaces" in guidebooks, often look awful to a parent's eye, but I have never visited a school where classroom buildings looked poorly maintained. Have you visited other schools so you have some basis of comparison? If the school you are discussing really does look neglected in comparison with others, that might be a red flag about either money or grounds adn maintenance personnel, but I don't really think you can address it with anyone except your daughter. Also, if the lawns and shrubbery looked shabby, that might be a function of an unusually hot and dry summer in New Jersey.</p>
<p>Hi mattmom, the school is Drew. It is a beautiful campus in that the trees and general exterior of the buildings create a lovely atmosphere. However, the interiors of many of the buildings are in need of maintenance. Shabby carpeting, dirty walls, walls in dire need of paint, etc. In their student run newspaper, they mention lack of toilet paper supplied in dorms, broken beverage machines in the cafeteria, no hot water in the bathrooms, etc. </p>
<p>To answer your question, yes, we have visited a number of other schools and all were so much better maintained - it was surprising, considering Drew is among the most expensive LACs in the country, and certainly the most expensive we have looked at.</p>
<p>As mentioned before, it is a wonderful school for my daughter for so many reasons - I don't think the lack of maintenance will be a factor that deters her from applying ED, however, it is one that greatly concerns me - and I wish I knew how to address my concerns to the administration without negatively effecting her acceptance. </p>
<p>When I face shelling out over $40,000 a year to a school, while the academics of the school is paramount, the fact that a school does not seem to take care of itself, in the way that I've seen many other colleges do, greatly concerns me.</p>
<p>CuriousMeMe, I completely agree with you. I would be a bit put off by the lack of maintenance. We looked at Pratt Institute because my daughter is interested in applied art. Despite Pratt's great academic reputation for its offerings, we were totally turned off by their lack of maintenance. We saw peeling paint on walls and broken tiles in bathrooms, which were a bit unkept too. In addition, some studios had signs by professors to "remove all artwork due to the leaking ceilings!"</p>
<p>Needless to say,we crossed Pratt off our list. There are plenty of good schools that are also well maintained. I will be damned before I pay 25K+ per year for a school that doesnt' provide good maintenance. It would be totally inexcusable if I were paying 40K and the premises weren't very well maintained!</p>
<p>I think the time to address this issue is when D has been accepted . Meanwhile look into some alternatives and apply RD to Drew--if you are confident she can get in, then RD will be no problem and will give you more time to consider the situation.</p>
<p>You could also phone anonymously and express your concerns and ask if they have any plans to improve the situation.</p>
<p>Deferred maintenance is a huge problem at campuses all around the country. Some campuses get behind the 8 ball and are having a hard time catching up. Given limited resources, campuses have to make choices (and make no mistake, even relatively wealthy institutions would say there is a limit to resources). Who knows why they've put off repainting or reshingling? Maybe it's not a sign of imminent financial failure, or not caring about students, but rather a decision to put that money into a new loan-reduction fund in financial aid. Or to build a new chemistry lab. Or something else meaningful.</p>
<p>If an entire campus looks awful, then I'd worry. If it's a building or two, then I'd be less concerned. Perhaps the building is slated for a major overhaul soon, so they aren't investing money in short-term fixes like paint. You never know. </p>
<p>My own institution has loads of resources and some gorgeous, well-maintained buildings and state-of-the-art new construction. But we have one building that is an absolute eyesore and embarrassment to the campus. It's been like this for a decade. I think there was a lot of debate about whether to refurbish or demolish, and while all that was going on they didn't do any fancy fixes. (They've now decided--the thing is coming down.) My point is, the dumpy condition of that building in no way reflects the quality of the institution or the quality of instruction students are receiving. It just looks icky. </p>
<p>It's understandable that obvious maintenance issues would raise some questions. They should. But the answers may not be as dire as one might first conclude.</p>
<p>If interior maintencance in multiple buildings looks substandard, I think it is worth worrying about. As pyewacket suggested, perhaps it would be better to apply RD and have some other options, or be in a position to ask questions. Even if the school is a great fit, if it is is in poor physical condition that doesn't speak well for the administration. It may also impact the morale of both students and faculty. </p>
<p>Deferrred maintenance is not a good excuse in my opinion. Isolated instances of neglect might be marginally acceptable but an overall apperance of neglect seems to indicate more than selective budgeting. Paint and tiles aren't big-budget items, and cleanliness should be a given everywhere. A school should present on overall appearnce of being cared for. It's too bad that Drew didn't make a better physical impression; there are so few schools in NJ for students looking for an LAC experience, and the state continues to wonder why there is such a brain-drain of bright students to neighboring states.</p>
<p>One slightly contradictory thought: Keep in mind that student newspapers can sometimes focus on the negative, which is often useful but not always. For example, at my daughter's college there have been some problems with one of the few remaining unrenovated dorms, and the student paper has covered those problems. However, when we last visited her, the dorm looked just fine: clean bathrooms, newly corrected climate control, and in general a feeling that this dorm was well-maintained even if it hadn't yet gotten its total makeover. (This particular school is generally immaculate, inside and out, so standards adn expectations are pretty high.)</p>
<p>Does anyone have any suggestions on confronting the school about this? Should I ask a few questions regarding future plans and general maintenance? Should I be anonymous? DD still is VERY ANXIOUS to attend this school and I don't want to ruin her chances of acceptance.</p>
<p>First, what exactly are you hoping to achieve by "confronting" the school? Can your daughter only attend if they clean up all of their buildings next year --- or are there specific areas that you feel must be fixed to be adequate? </p>
<p>Second, here's the link to Drew's Facilities Maintenance Department which explains their policies on maintenance and upcoming projects.
If you want to approach someone at Drew about maintenance without risking your daughter's admission, I'd suggest putting in a call or email to the Facilities Maintenance Department (there's an email at the bottom of the page) and express your concerns politely to see what they say. It is doubtful that anyone in admissions is going to give you the full scoop beyond typical marketing-gobblydegoop. <a href="http://depts.drew.edu/admfrm/%5B/url%5D">http://depts.drew.edu/admfrm/</a></p>
<p>But, make sure you have thought about what you hope to achieve, and what you realistically can achieve. Unless you are ready to become a major donor, it is unlikely that any "confrontation" demanding change is going to be acted upon, especially if your daughter is not yet a student.</p>
<p>I think it would depend on what the problem is-
Did you come at a bad time- during a drought- after a big celebration- the first time we visited reed was after something- and there were champange bottles in teh shrubbery, it was raining and the place smelled like dog poo ( the neighborhood uses it as a dog run- didn't see any, but I smelled it)
But generally every thing else was spotless.- groutfiti in the bathrooms but that is a tradition.
some problems I wouldn't write off the school- they may have other priorites ( like education) may have had recent problems with contracted work, paint wasn't as advertised etc, but severe problems I would worry about over all financial management of school.</p>
<p>I would check out what profs are paid- what grants they have won- what president is paid, is it reasonable or is somebody gambling money away someplace?
I would ask in admissions about problems and about the articles in the school paper- see what they say</p>
<p>Carolyn, you do make some good points. I suppose I just want to hear that they are on the verge of recarpetting this and repainting that! I will check out their maintenance site (thank you for that!). The bottom line is that my daughter still loves the school, in spite of the lack of maintenance - I just have to come to grips with the fact that I will be shelling out so much money while having to basically accept certain aspects of what I'm paying for. </p>
<p>It's a difficult thing to accept: typically when a person buys a service or a product, they have some say in the what they are buying - if one buys a new auto, for instance, if when delivered it has a scratch, the dealership will fix it. If one goes to a hotel and has a problem with a dirty room or a leaky faucet, the staff will either fix the problem, or change the room.</p>
<p>Two facts stand out on Drew's website: their endowment is on the small side ($200 million) compared to similar LAC of that size and level of selectivity. Also, their facilities maintenance has been "outsourced" to Aramark, which might be part of the problem.</p>
<p>Those are two things that you could approach admissions about, but in a non-confrontational way. "How does the size of your endowment affect the universities strategic and building plans?" "How does outsourcing your facilities maintenance affect daily life for students?"</p>
<p>But, while this may provide answers, I am skeptical that you will, by yourself, be able to change things considerably in time for your daughter to make the decision about applying ED.</p>
<p>Without excusing poor maintenance, I think you might want to give some thought to "what you are paying for" with that $40K/year. Comparisons to a hotel fixing a leaky faucet or a car dealership fixing a scratch don't make sense to me. In paying for my S' college education, my primary focus is on the faculty, curriculum, lab facilities etc. That is where I want to see the bulk of my $ go. I personally have found interiors of some of the buildings at top-notch schools to be less appealing than I would hope for (Johns Hopkins comes to mind wrt one building I wandered through on my own). The dorms at some schools we visited (many, in fact) do not come anywhere near to meeting the standards I seek when I choose a hotel room. These things didn't bother my S one little bit (and I consider him rather picky and well-traveled). At his chosen school, he could have opted for a Brand New residence hall (which I would have jumped on), but instead chose the Honors dorm he had overnighted in based on type of kids there, proximity to classes and ability to roll out of bed and get to the Dining Hall. I found the hallways/carpeting in that dorm to be best described by the word "scuzzy." Actually, I applaud his choice even tho it wouldn't be mine.</p>
<p>There are certainly some schools which compete for students on the calibre of their dorm accommodations ("dorms are like palaces" in the Princeton Review). If that is your primary focus, you may have to give up high academic rating in favor of high "amenity" rating.</p>
<p>I may be painting the choices as a little too mutually exclusive. But I wouldn't expect to have any effect whatsoever on their maintenance/capital budget priorities. You might get lucky and find that the carpet which offends you is scheduled for replacement. If your daughter feels as you do, this does not sound like the ED school for her. If she doesn't, you might want to join me in averting our eyes to the scuzziness in places where it doesn't bother our kids. Kind of like closing the door to their bedroom to avoid confronting the clothes on the floor, unmade bed etc. :eek:.</p>
<p>Jmmom, I was not inferring my daughter's dorm room be kept up like a hotel room. What I was trying to convey was my probable inability to have a voice while spending so much money out of my own pocket (no financial aid at all) on room, board & tuition. You have to admit, if you are spending more than $40,000 a year on a college, it could be a bit frustrating. </p>
<p>Lack in maintenance also causes me to wonder if there are other issues, perhaps less obvious - and possibly more important, that may be slipping as well.</p>
<p>That said, like you Jmmom: "my primary focus is on the faculty, curriculum, lab facilities etc." Which is why DD will most likely attend this school -for those most important aspects do SEEM to be excellent, making the school an excellent fit for her.</p>
<p>We visited Drew this summer and I totally agree that the maintenance is awful. On the tour, we were taken a lecture hall with very very dirty carpet, broken blinds, broken desks...and the place was FILTHY. It seemed like they could have made a better choice for the tours! In fact, all of the buildings we saw were on the rather dirty side...clearly had not been cleaned. Oh...and we were there just a couple of weeks before classes were starting. It looked like they were "working on" the landscaping (large piles of dirt everywhere), but the first impression was NOT a favorable one. Having said that, I dont' think it is worth "confronting" the university about their maintance issues. What is there possibly to gain?? DD simply won't apply there!</p>
<p>This reminds me a bit of my kids' prep school. The headmaster's aware of the impression you first get when you see the campus. Not dirt so much, as a bit rundown in the paint and maintenance areas. ("shabby gentility" is what my mother would call it!)....Anyway, he was upfront about it at a parents' meeting. "We don't have the money this year for it. Faculty salaries take priority over paint jobs. I'm sure you all agree with me on this." ..Dirt is another matter, though.</p>
<p>I suspect the problem at Drew has to do with outsourcing their maintenance to Aramark. I wonder how long that contract has been in place?</p>
<p>That said, we have seen some truly awful maintenance at schools during our visits. I mean, to the point where I actually got the heeby-jeebies at the thought of my daughter having to live there, let alone take a shower in the bathroom! </p>
<p>Interestingly enough, my daughter has been oblivious to most of it, perhaps because until they moved to a new campus this year, her high school has functioned in rather derelict conditions for many years. But, I do think it is something to keep in mind and perhaps point out to kids while they're visiting schools. What is easy to overlook on a visit may make life unpleasant when you're actually calling a school "home" for four years.</p>
<p>i guess if drew weren't among the most expensive lacs in the country, i would understand it a bit more... but for $40,000 plus a year, where is the money going? How can less expensive schools, with the same amount of students, etc. be so much better maintained?</p>
<p>Curious -- you don't get a voice. The college sends you a bill. Your analogy to a hotel fails because I think most of us have, at one time or another, experienced disappointment at a high priced hotel - and sometimes our only option was to choose not to give that particular hotel our business in the future. The difference is simply that hotels don't cost $40K nor do we make a 4 year commitment. If we buy an expensive car and it turns out to be a lemon, we can at least trade it in for something else. </p>
<p>So in the end, the college choice is the same: if you don't think you are getting $40K worth with Drew, then you will have to tell your daughter to choose another college. You have the ability to visit in advance and also to decide what is important to you. </p>
<p>For what its worth, I didn't visit my son's college before he attended, and I haven't visited any of the colleges my daughter will apply to. I have a different view: I'm paying, but what we get for the money is my kid's problem, not mine. In fairness, I expect to get needs based aid - so I won't be paying $40K annually anywhere -- and when a college is giving a kid a $15-$20K annual grant, its natural for a parent to be a little more foregiving. </p>
<p>But the point is the same: if you expect more bang for your buck, then look elsewhere. You aren't buying an individual service and you will be sadly disappointed if you think that any college will give you much of a say in how the place is run.</p>