ADHD and "Top schools" for Math, Engineering, CS, or Business

Parents Forum Learning Differences and Challenges - LD, ADHD
1

I’ve gone through all the LD posts over the last 5 years searching for which schools are best for kids with LD’s. I have a 12th grade daughter who I have known for years has had ADHD, but her mother and I always refused to let her get tested due to what we thought was a stigma. Fast forward to last year in second semester of Jr. Year. We finally let her see a Psychiatrist who diagnosed her with ADHD and has put her on medication. While I think the medication helps (hard to tell) she still finishes very few tests on time, etc. Even in her best subjects, she never finishes the test. I know that we should have her do a full blown evaluation, but her mother and I just feel like the potential stigma of people finding out could severely hurt her college options. We’ve basically weighed the plusses and minuses of letting people know and have come to the opinion that “we believe” she is going to get into a lot of top tier universities so why risk it by doing the full blown testing to get accomodations, when we think she will get in the schools with them. Yes, her SAT scores would be much higher if she had extra time, yes her grades would be much higher if she had extra time, and yes it is really on the cusp of breaking her by her having to work so hard to keep up and keep her grades up. She goes a extremely rigorous private school- top 5 in the nation, she is extremely gifted in math, and I cannot wait until April when this is all behind her.

As I mentioned, we are not going to have testing done until AFTER college acceptances, and we (She, her mother, and I) are all comfortable with where she falls on the totem pole in regards to her SAT scores, SAT 2’s, class rank, rigorous school, EC’s, and schedule, etc). We believe she will get into a top school. She plans to study Engineering, Computer Science, Math, or Business. Herein lies my questions:

I’m looking for feedback on stories from students with ADHD or parents of students with ADHD, that attend any of the following schools. What kind of information am I looking for?

  1. Once a student has a psyche exam done and it’s determined they need accommodations/extra time, etc. which schools on this list have been accommodating or have not been accommodating?
  2. Is there a stigma at any of these schools for kids that get extra time? Do professors not like it, etc?
  3. I’ve read a little bit about “costs” involved in a few posts. Is this a norm at schools? I.e. To get special services, extra time, extra tutoring, etc for an ADHD child, the school has extra “LD fees?” I’m not referring to the cost of the Psyche tests (I know those are costly). I’m referring to “fees” once at the university if involved in LD programs, etc.
  4. If there any top school for Math, Engineering, Computer Science, or Business that also provide good support for LD students, feel free to add to the list and any comments. My goal is to apply to the “right” schools so we don’t get a bunch of acceptances to schools that would not work well with her ADHD.

I’m basically just trying to get feedback or direct experience or stories on any of the following schools (good or bad) versus hearing it from the actual school. Why? So we can put together a list of schools that make sense to apply to and then have the testing done after acceptances roll out.

Schools I have “read” comments on here that are good with LD students-
Yale… I’ve read comments that they are good
Brown- I’ve read comments that they are good and “1” bad review
All of the Claremont schools- I’ve read comments that they are good
Duke- I’ve read comments that they are good
Tulane- I read one old comment that they are good, anything else?

Schools that I have seen no comments regarding LD students-
Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Washington U in St Louis, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon, Rice, Boston U, Purdue, USC (Southern Cal)… any LD students at any of these schools? What about any of the top state schools? Michigan, UVA, UT Austin, any of the UCal schools? Any LD students at any of them with something to add?

Schools that I think would probably not be a good fit or schools I have read bad reviews on for LD students
UPenn- I read a bad review. Anyone else? Positive or negative.
Columbia- We are considering SEAS, but with the “core” curriculum I’m not sure it would be a very good fit
UChicago- We are considering Math, but with the “core” curriculum I’m not sure it would be a very good fit

Any thoughts about any of these schools or any “Top” Math, Engineering, CS, or Business program" that gives LD students the most support to succeed (if it’s needed) would be greatly appreciated.

2

You are targeting very difficult schools to get in, does your daughter really have a good chance of getting in? Are her non-accommodated scores like 1500/2300? If they are 1300/2000, it isn’t going to happen unless she has a hook or very impressive ECs. These schools are “comfortable” to a lot more students and parents than the reality of how many openings there are versus the number of excellent candidates nationwide and even worldwide.

I am not a LD person, but find it strange that you are avoiding help or even assessment. All doctor/patient interactions are protected by privacy rights, so there is nothing that would force you to reveal assessments, treatment plans, comments from professionals to either your HS or any college. However, all these people could help you identify what she needs, how to approach it, and whether additional time would help or even hurt her. There is no way people can “find out” anything unless you release the info (if your daughter is 18, she can also release info).

I would be very worried about sending you D off far away from home to a very stressful competitive school, without a diagnosis or treatment plan or local doctor connection, and then just hoping for the best.

College is not going to be easier than high school, even with accomodations.

3

Most parents want to believe this but that is not the reality

4

Thanks for the response. Yes she is well above 1300/2000. She does not have accommodations. Yes she has some very good hooks and EC’s. Regarding sending off to a far away college, she attends a far away school already and has throughout high school so that is not an issue. We are aware that college admissions can be a crapshoot. She’s in the mix.

I’m simply looking for feedback or stories on kids with ADHD at any of these colleges to help us put the ideal list of schools together.

Thanks

5

When you ask at UChicago accepted student visits about the disabilities office, they think you are looking for a wheelchair accessible dorm. Literally… the admissions office doesn’t even have a phone # or a contact name. Also, if your kid has not had accommodations in the past, colleges are less likely to grant them. I am not saying they won’t for sure, but they may not.

My kid goes to a highly ranked school (not on your list). A different type of LD is her primary issue, but also mild ADHD. No medication, does get time and a half on tests. Her school required the exam results report, and had questions about her high school accommodations. As she had a diagnosis that is clear since 2nd grade, has been confirmed a couple times since then by more recent exams, and used similar accommodations in HS, they granted them in college.

Of course, there are no accommodations on daily homework and problem sets. She works crazy hard to keep up because of this, but has been successful. She says it is 10 times harder than high school for her. Having an LD makes a rigorous college even more of a struggle. Your kid will need a lot of motivation to get through. If my kid didn’t LOVE her school, it might not have gone as well.

It costs nothing at her school for LD services (but hers are minimal, letter to profs at start of semester). She says she has had zero issues with profs on this.

6

Two children with disabilities here, one with autism, the other with severe ADHD and dysgraphia. We have had services for both children throughout all of k-12.

If you think that your daughter will need accommodations you should absolutely get her evaluated NOW. Believing that getting her help will cause a stigma is silly. If she actually needs help, then she should get it. Period. He diagnoses does not follow her from high school to college, unless you disclose. It won’t be known to admissions officers unless you tell them on the application. You daughter’s application will not be flagged. You doctor’s notes will not suddenly float out of the doctor’s office and attach themselves to her paperwork.

My son, with autism, is applying to highly ranked schools. He is actually planning to disclose his disabilities to two of these schools because we think it will actually help explain who he is and why his admissions packet looks the way it does. We spoke at length with an adcom from Stanford who encouraged us to disclose because, in her words, she cannot understand something she does not know. Then she proudly spoke about their disability services.

Your best bet is to have her apply to the colleges she is interested in and then once you have her admissions in hand, have her speak to those disabilities offices and see what they have to offer. It does not sounds like she needs a special program since she is successful in high school - that is what people are talking about with paying fees. All schools will offer accommodations and they are free BUT, and this is really important, she has to ask for them, not you. She has to learn to advocate for herself, understand her needs, and speak to people about specific accommodations that have been successful for her in the past. You as the parents may not be allowed to do this for her, due to FERPA. Depends on the school. Having to self advocate is one of the reasons for accommodations early on. Kids need to learn to navigate how to deal with teachers and administrators. They actually teach this in my sons’ schools.

In the end, it sounds like she might not need accommodations. If she is competitive for top schools without them, why do you think she will need them in the future. My son with ADHD is a full blown disaster and simply cannot succeed without the help. I actually pulled him out of school this year for homeschool because it was too much. My son with autism, needs help socially at times, although he has pretty much mastered these problems, thanks to supportive high school and middle school staff. This is what accommodations are for. Kids who need to level the playing field in order to succeed. Does your daughter need help in order to match the level of her peers?

7

Thank you for the replies. I also received some kind words and advice via PM. We are going to take everyone’s advice and have her tested to get the accomodations NOW. It is great that a board like this exists where people can get such valuable information. I never would have known that getting tested now is the best thing for her without this board. A big thank you to all who commented and all who sent such wonderful PMs with such valuable information.

8

You are making the right choice. I have spoken to so many parents over the years who have stated to me that they don’t want their child to have a “label” so they refuse to have them tested or receive services. I have seen so many more kids helped by that label than hurt.

Also showing that her ADHD is nothing to be ashamed of is important. By hiding her diagnosis from others, you are telling her that ADHD is something to hide and something bad. It is not bad, it just a different way of being. Since our education system is designed for people without ADHD, school life is a bit harder for people with attentional difficulties. If only they had trampolines in school!!! Once she is done with school she will have opportunities to look for careers that work better with her personality and her ADHD.

Good choice and well done.

9

UC Berkley has a program similar to U of AZ SALT program. It is a federally funded 5-year test program and I’m not sure what year it is in or how it continues afterwards, but there is no additional charge to the student. If the student mentions a disability on the original application, this automatically gets your student sent a supplemental disability application, which also suggests a letter of recommendation be submitted. The student, however, must also qualify for Berkeley admittance–they fill the program without lowering their admitting standards, which are tough. Glad you are getting testing done now. My DD loved learning what was going on in her brain for LDs and it actually increased her confidence.

10

Students with disabilities must be otherwise qualified, meaning they meet the same criteria for admissions as other applicants, and continue to meet academic and other requirements from matriculation to graduation. Diagnosis of a disability is not germane to admissions or persistence. Consequently, there are no “good” schools in any field unless its a school such as Landmark that specializes in teaching students with disabilities. Instead, your daughter will make her decision about what universities to apply to and which school to ultimately attend on the basis of her personal preferences and fit.

If your daughter already meets entrance requirements and did not receive accommodations in high school than it is reasonable to presume that she will not need special assistance through a university program for students with disabilities. Many of these intensive- programs dedicated to students with disabilities are fee bearing, time-limited bridges to classes on campus.

Nevertheless, your daughter needs a complete evaluation to obtain a formal diagnosis. Diagnosis is fundamental to registering with the campus disability office. MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY, she must have a clear understanding of the direct impact of her disability on her academic functioning. These are called functional limitations.

A diagnosis is not labeling your daughter!!!Her name and her person will remain the same and would have been the same in the past. She is and never was a disability in the shape of a girl. Would you have denied your daughter the opportunity to wear glasses for low vision when she was in school to avoid labeling? What if she lacked sufficient visual acuity to access information through print text, would she have done as well academically or would no one have noticed that her poor vision prevented her from learning? How many points are taken off the final grade of a stellar performer because she required accommodations because of low vision? Disability is not shameful but is rarely invisible in that ignoring it means it disappears. If there are difficulties due to a disability (label) such as bullying that is addressed separately.

Academic accommodations are identified through communication between your daughter and her disability services provider as they discuss each disability-related problem and decide ones will compensate for her limitations. Once appropriate accommodations are provided, your daughter will be required to succeed or fail based on her own performance relative to class requirements.

Accommodations are appropriate when they compensate for the disability, but not because they lead to successful outcomes. Instead, they provide your daughter with an equal opportunity with other students to try. Leveling the playing field does not mean providing with daughter with extra assistance such as individualized tutoring or reducing course requirements so that she will have an easier time getting a good grade. Like everybody else, students with disabilities seek services at learning centers and other campus offices other than disability services. As far as advising and class selection, they also know whether an am or pm class is better and whether a class that meets three days a week is better than a class that meets once a week for three hours. Disability is only a FRAGMENT of the college experience.

Again, accommodations are only relevant to specific functional limitations of the disability and only to address those inequities. After that your daughter will succeed based on her own merits. As she moves through college into adulthood, she will learn personal strategies and which accommodations are truly needed to thrive as a successful adult. None of us are perfect and no one is free from the obligation to find out what works best to be successful, productive and happy.

I hope she find the college of her choice to be everything she hoped and plans to investigate disability services if needed.

11

To be blunt.

If she can’t finish high school tests what makes you think she will finish college level exams? Especially at an ivy league school.

12

My son had zero problems getting in colleges. E had a 504 plan even. His scores and grades were good. However, I will warn you that if your child has any executive function issues or self regulation issues, going away to an ivy or any school will not go well. It is not related to intelligence. My son is very gifted and managed to score very high on tests in challenging classes but got a c and a few d grades due to not turning in the assignments :/.But if she does everything on her own including getting up for day, laundry and manages homework on her own she would be fine. A 504 in high school for extended test time will help her get extended time in college. It’s has no stigma whatsoever. The stigma to me is dealing with the behavior. It is exhausting. And so far I’m disappointed in how inflexible my son’s college professors are. It looks like he will be on academic probation next semester and if he can’t make changes this semester, he loses his dream of being a music major at a good music school. It is heart breaking. I’d err on the side of caution and choose a school that is a little below her level. My son is at a school below his academic level and he really struggled still.

13

@nobelcollegekid, she would likely be able to finish exams if she gets extra time. Receiving that accommodation may be non-trivial as the OP’s D has not had it throughout her schooling. Colleges and The College Board seem to be more inclined to offer to provide extra time for kids who have a history of getting it (for years). My sense from dealing with two kids who had extra time on tests was that while past accommodations were not dispositive, the college disabilities services offices gave weight to the fact that the kid has had the accommodation for quite a while.

14

I haven’t read all the responses, so I might be repeating someone else. My S17 has LDs. He was diagnosed in the spring of his 9th grade year. There is no way for colleges to know about any diagnosis your daughter has unless she mentions it on the application. My S has completed applications for 11 colleges. His essays were not about his LDs, but the fact that he has learning issues could be deduced from his essay. Of the 11 colleges to which S applied, none were Ivies or too highly selective. He had no interest in Ivies or highly selective schools. He got contacted by all but 1 Ivy, and he turned them all down because he had no interest in taking SAT II subject tests. BTW, we are home schoolers. His top choice is University of Michigan, to which he’s been accepted. I believe he did mention his LDs in that essay. He’s also been admitted to 4 other colleges; some have offered him merit scholarships (one is a full-tuition scholarship at a highly rated, small liberal arts college in our state). He’s waiting to hear from the other 6 schools.

If you think your daughter needs to have a neuropshych eval, don’t delay it. By her having accomodations (extended time on tests), it is only leveling the playing field for her. It’s unfair for you to deny her the opportunity to show her true potential.