ADHD/gifted: advice/suggestions please

<p>My son is a junior in hs who is gifted and has ADHD. He is extremely conscientious and has a 4.0 GPA in honors classes but spends his life on homework. He is extremely inefficient and lacks time management and organizational skills. He does not have accommodations but does have tremendous amount of support/organizational help from us. He would like to go to an Ivy type college but I am worried he will flounder. I am wondering if anyone has experience with gifted ADHD students and college. What schools have good services? Any tips on how to help a college student with ADHD survive and succeed are appreciated!</p>

<p>Seeing as though no one else has stepped in I will give my two cents. I am a LD/ADD student at Stanford.</p>

<p>It is defiantly possible for students with disabilities to do well at top tier schools, but I am still unsure as to how your son’s disability affects him, what he is like, and how he would do in Ivy type environment. I need clarification on some points your brought up.</p>

<p>First off, what do you mean by gifted? I swear that almost half of my HS was considered gifted and 4.0s are a dime a dozen, I know that this is difficult for you as a parent to describe your child objectively, but can you give any better indicators of his intelligence?</p>

<p>Second, I am slightly confused by the statement “he lacks time management” following “he spends his life on homework”. If you spend your life on homework how can you have time management flaws? Are you simply trying to restate that he is an inefficient worker? Also, if he spends his life on homework what does he do for ECs?</p>

<p>Third, when you say that he gets tremendous support from us, what does that tremendous support entail?</p>

<p>Finally, if he is not receiving accommodations now, why are you asking which schools have good services? Are you just asking about the schools services in general or which schools have good ADHD services?</p>

<p>For your last question, I have found it helpful to go to the library when doing homework. With all the distractions in the dorm it is easy for an ADHD kid to lose focus. Also, he will need to be especially diligent and make sure that he does not fall behind since it does not seem like he would have the ability to catch up. My previous two suggestions work not only for ADHD students, but college students in general.</p>

<p>I will be able to give you more targeted advice for your son after I learn a little bit more about him. Also, it is important that you know that the nature of my disability differs greatly from your son’s, so I might not be able to tell you exactly what he can expect when he arrives at college. However, I can guess that although our disabilities differ, I will still be able to provide a general picture of what it is like to be at an elite college with a disability.</p>

<p>I will try to answer your questions. The library is a good idea. </p>

<p>“What do you mean by gifted?”</p>

<p>The “gifted” is from overall IQ of 134 with sig, higher verbal than performance He understands new concepts very easily. It is not easy to get an unweighted 4.0 at his school with honors/AP classes.
Sat subj tests in a science and Math II are 800.</p>

<p>“Second, I am slightly confused by the statement “he lacks time management” following “he spends his life on homework”. If you spend your life on homework how can you have time management flaws? Are you simply trying to restate that he is an inefficient worker ?"</p>

<p>He has been diagnosed with ADHD at age 7. He gets distracted very easily (by noise, or anything really.) He might see a paperclip and start playing with it for quite a while. He doesn’t realize time is passing. He has no idea how long any task will take. He is usually off by a factor of 2 or 4 or 6. Even with a deadline, he can’t seem to get faster. He is not efficient at work -he has been taught study skills but there are tasks like looking things up in a dictionary or finding information in a text that can take him forever. Writing is very slow for him. He has a hard time getting his thoughts organized and on paper. He also has had difficulty with finishing tests, especially essays. (If given enough time, he is an excellent writer. ) He is also inefficient at tasks of daily living – putting on his clothes, getting cereal for breakfast. He does not go from point A to B. He usually goes to C,D,E,F before he gets to B. Currently we help him manage his time. We ask him what he needs to do and he makes a plan. We help him be more realistic about how long things will take and help him get organized. We check in frequently so he knows how much time has expired and how much time is left and to keep him on task.</p>

<p>"Also, if he spends his life on homework what does he do for ECs?”</p>

<p>He has participated in some clubs (one sport, one science club) but generally has had to miss some sessions because of school work. He is taking 5 classes (AP Calculus, AP CHEM, Honors Spanish, Honors English and Honors US History) and this workload fills almost all of his waking time. He often does work at lunch and at a study hall and then after school and evening. He feels stressed by school work. On the other hand, the work is not difficult just time consuming. </p>

<p>“Finally, if he is not receiving accommodations now, why are you asking which schools have good services? Are you just asking about the schools services in general or which schools have good ADHD services?”</p>

<p>He was denied accommodations because he was getting As even though he has documentation of his disability and a psychologist who said it was seriously negatively impacting his life. I am wondering whether he could get services in college even if he didn’t get them in h.s. I am asking about schools which might have good ADHD services.</p>

<p>My son would like to be a scientist or an engineer. I am concerned because I have seen statistics that the drop out/failure rate for college students with ADHD is high.</p>

<p>Please let me know how you managed school work in high school and how much harder you have found it at Stanford. Any advice will be really appreciated. Do you have accommodations at Stanford for ADHD? If so, what type?</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

<p>We are struggling with some of these decisions now as daughter is a senior. I understand your description of the issues you are struggling with. First of all, there is a lot of maturity still going on over the summer between Jr. and Sr. yr and throughout the senior year - so keep that in mind - your son might seem less frustrating by this time next year.
As the semester has gone on with 3 APs, Yearbook Editor and Writing Essays for Colleges and Scholarships has been a huge load… she made more B’s than usual but she has managed by making lots of A’s to average in with the grade that she blows completely due to time management issues.
Start over the summer working on the common App essays. In our HS at least - they had not written these types of self analysis papers before and my daughter had some real soul searching to do. The idea of “showing” through description instead of telling your life stories takes some practice and lots of rewrites- but by mid semester she had it down and actually knew herself better and what she had to contribute - so that was good. Her final main essay was wonderful and she has gotten quicker at test essays because of all the required writing practice Sr. yr. She still has extended time on tests and will need this time in college as well - so that will also be a consideration when choosing a college.
My daughter specifically looked for colleges where the student body was described as collaborative instead of competitive - she applied to one Ivy that seemed to have a less competitive student body. She applied to MANY schools (13) of various types just because she was still considering where she would best fit by May. At this point what we know to rule out is the huge Universitys - she will need to have small classes with Professors who know her and perhaps even take attendance. At this point she is strongly considering a full ride offer from a Catholic School that has strict dorm requirements re: noise, drinking and boys…not because she wouldn’t enjoy those distractions but because she knows she needs less temptation when trying to study. She has also made it a priority to find a college with a wonderful library that feels comforting and inspiring.
I think college could be better than high school. Seven classes in HS with lots of memorization assignments involved vs. 5 with more reading and hands on work will be an improvement. She does much better on Essay and short answer tests than multiple choice/scan trons - where she reads and rereads, over analyzes and second guesses herself - so small classes again will be helpful. She will never be at the top of the class because of her ADHD but because she is smart - she will hyper-focus and do well in the areas that truly interest her. Best of Luck !</p>

<p>Thanks for your post manyamile. We are hoping for maturity but boys are slower than girls in this regard. We are also wondering if he should apply and defer a year for this reason.</p>

<p>I think a small school with small classes would be good for him. This is not so easy to find when you are also looking for a school with great science and engineering.</p>

<p>You may want to start tackling the poor organizational and time management skills NOW before he goes off to school and no longer has parental support. There are a lot of tools and resources out there that can help students, with or without LDs, to organize their work and manage their time better (beyond even the obvious ones: assignment books, calendars, to do lists, etc). Why not look into a seminar or course now while still in hs so he can begin to learn these skills before they possibly become a bigger problem? Also many colleges offer courses to teach time management, organizational and study skills to all their students (this isn’t a problem unique to those with LDs / ADD!) and those with better LD services may also offer courses more specifically tailored to the LD student but the big problem of course is that these resources are useless unless the student uses them. Better to get a head start now while he is still under your control… good luck!!!</p>

<p>HaHa! Her maturity has always been more on par with the boys in her grade and we held her back in kindergarten. She has always been one step forward two steps back in this area but I saw real progress this year. Her psychiatrist said ADHD kid’s frontal lobe abilities are 3 years behind others.
Have you considered Olin College of Engineering? It is for the brilliant math student - but really hands on learning with real projects which might appeal to him if he has the hyper-focus for things that interest him that goes along with ADHD. It is VERY small - so his professors would really know him and he would be forced to be engaged.
Here are the 2012 class stats:</p>

<p>79 Students
46 Men; 33 Women
Geography: 26 states and 5 countries</p>

<p>Applications received: 969
Candidates (finalists) invited to campus: 179
Admitted: 131
Enrolled: 80</p>

<p>Average GPA: 4.3
14 Valedictorians
3 Salutatorians
Middle 50 percent of SAT scores: 2150-2310</p>

<p>“Please let me know how you managed school work in high school and how much harder you have found it at Stanford. Any advice will be really appreciated. Do you have accommodations at Stanford for ADHD? If so, what type?”</p>

<p>In high school, I really did not work all that hard. I took a similar course load to what your son is taking. I primarily coasted by on just paying attention in class and resting on intelligence. Most AP teachers did not collect homework and unless I felt that I need to do the home work to learn the material, I did not do it.</p>

<p>Fast forward to college, I was smart enough to know that I was not smart enough to rest on just intelligence any more. I started to do my homework and study, the workload is defiantly greater, but at the same time it is not that bad. I am interested in engineering so I am taking a lot of problem set heavy classes, although I can not tell you what your son can expect once he gets into engineering because I am only a freshman.</p>

<p>My time management and organization skills are both bazar. My time management philosophy is to work when I feel like working, which thankfully is a lot of the time, and don’t work when I fell like not working. This has only ended up putting me into one all nighter thus far, but that was mainly because I decided to scrap a paper and re-write it because I was not happy with the final result. As for organization, it is essentially no existent. It consist of stacks or random papers thrown around my room, but I can still find stuff. I do the exact same thing your son does with going from point a to b.</p>

<p>About organization skills, something that I have noticed is that intelligent people with AD(H)D is that they know how to be organized they just chose not to. I defiantly know how to clean up my room and put my papers in to binders, but I just don’t care. I am sure your son is the same way. I don’t care about my organization because I can still find stuff and I don’t lose it, so why make an organization system. If your son is losing stuff though, you need get him to start being organized. How do you do that? You just tell him to go off and make an organization system right now. Yes, I know that it will take him many hours, but he is smart enough to do it. After that, insist that he keeps his stuff organized. If he keeps it organized, he won’t need waist so much time looking for papers. For him, I guess that being disorganized is simply laziness and that due to his ADHD, he is discouraged from organizing his stuff because he knows it will take him forever. However, I am sure that he can do it.</p>

<p>As for accommodations, if your son has a note from a neuro phycologist and the school that he goes to has a similar accommodations system, he will be able to get them. I have a note taker, am allowed to use a computer to type up certain exams, and I get extra time on certain exams. The office of accessible education here is great. I can talk to some one if I have problems basically any time I want to, and I check in with them regularly.</p>

<p>I have one last thing about maturity. I elementary and middle school I was an absolute train wreck. I did horrible in school despite working really hard. However, the year after I grew around a foot, a lot of my problems started to go away, or at least become more manageable. Physically, I matured pretty early for a guy. I firmly believe that something mental happened over the massive growing period as well. If you feel that your son is not done maturing, then it might make sense for him to take a gap year.</p>

<p>Sorry if there are mistakes in here, I shot this out pretty quickly.</p>

<p>Thanks for your post firehose. My son is a slow maturer and just growing now. I do hope that with physical maturity will come mental/emotional maturity. Are your accomodations for ADHD alone? You wrote LD/ADHD.</p>

<p>manyamile </p>

<p>Yes adolescents with ADHD may be 3-6 years delayed. YIKES!</p>

<p>I have thought that Olin would be great in many ways. Right now my son is really enjoying chemistry and there is very little chemistry at this school. But a school like Olin sounds like it would be a good fit though not a sure thing in terms of admission as it is very selective. Thanks!</p>

<p>I do have an LD and I receive accommodations because of that. I don’t know how they treat ADHD alone. Does he have a recommendation for accommodations from a neruo pshycologist? That would strongly help your case for getting accommodations. I think it would be a good idea to ask schools what accommodations your son would be able to receive after he gets accepted. It seems as though your son may have a more difficult time getting accommodations than I did because I have 50-60 point gaps in different parts of my IQ. I get just about everything right on the test at some parts and on other parts I score in the 80s.</p>

<p>milkweed - Would Swarthmore College work for your son? It is small and does offer engineering.</p>

<p>milkweed, I’d try to get a 504 plan, he cannot be denied that if he has a diagnosis, and you can have accommodations put in place for your son’s executive function deficits (time management, organization…). When was the last time you had testing done for him? It’s also not too late to request that the school do testing, but you are running out of time.</p>

<p>Always remember to communicate with the school via snail mail, certified, return receipt.</p>

<p>The school system has denied the 504 twice, first in middle school and then again at the end of freshman year of high school. The diagnosis alone will not get a 504. The school argued that although they did not dispute he had ADHD, it was not limiting one or more major life activities. (Major life activities, as defined in the Section 504 regulations at 34 C.F.R. 104.3(j)(2)(ii), include functions such as caring for one’s self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working.) Given this list, we argued it interfered with learning but they said his grades showed it didn’t. The testing had been done a few years ago but he had recently been evaluated by a neuropsychologist who came to the 504 meeting to advocate for the accomodations.</p>

<p>When I was looking for the information on major life activities for this post, I found
some new information (below) in capitals which might be useful for an appeal.</p>

<p>[Protecting</a> Students With Disabilities](<a href=“http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html]Protecting”>Protecting Students With Disabilities)</p>

<p>"Major life activities, as defined in the Section 504 regulations at 34 C.F.R. 104.3(j)(2)(ii), include functions such as caring for one’s self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working.</p>

<p>THIS LIST IS NOT EXHAUSTIVE. Other functions can be major life activities for purposes of Section 504. In the Amendments Act (see FAQ 1), Congress provided additional examples of general activities that are major life activities, including eating, sleeping, standing, lifting, bending, reading, CONCENTRATING, thinking, and communicating. Congress also provided a non-exhaustive list of examples of “major bodily functions” that are major life activities, such as the functions of the immune system, normal cell growth, digestive, bowel, bladder, neurological, brain, respiratory, circulatory, endocrine, and reproductive functions. The Section 504 regulatory provision, though not as comprehensive as the Amendments Act, is still valid – the Section 504 regulatory provision’s list of examples of major life activities is not exclusive, and an activity or function not specifically listed in the Section 504 regulatory provision can nonetheless be a major life activity.</p>

<p>I’d look into the specific changes regarding mitigation (since you stated above that you are doing a lot to support him) in the 2008 amendments and contact your local OCR office.</p>

<p>

While this is true, a gifted student compensates by being that far ahead cognitively. It’s a terrible Catch-22.</p>

<p>milkweed - you could have been describing MY son. Sounds sooo familiar. Mine is a sophmore though and we WERE able to get some minimal accomodations from HS (not the college board). My son also gets pretty much straight A’s a but spends his life on homework (and paperclips). That alone produces anxiety around getting everything done and prevents a more reasonable balance of activities in his life. I’ll be interested to see how things go for you. Best of luck</p>