Agree. The school district did their own assessment of our kid and concluded he didn’t need an IEP (because he had mostly Bs and did fine on all the academic-related tests, ignoring his lack of focus and inability to sit still etc). It was only by hiring our own educational psychologist to do an assessment that they took us seriously.
Having said that, I think that if he had been doing worse in school then they would have been more willing to offer accommodations off the bat. So I can see marginal cases getting allowances such as extra time in that situation, if parents link the underperformance to anxiety or ADHD (though that is more likely to be done by middle class parents, not poor working class ones).
And if that underperformance was in middle school, then I could imagine situations where a student had a strong high school academic record but still has extra time on tests etc. If you get College Board approval in 10th grade then it continues for the rest of high school.
Absolutely! Each neuropsych evaluation took eight hours and cost $3,000 10 years ago. I’m sure it’s more like $5,000 now. Totally NOT covered by insurance. Getting to the diagnosis easily cost us over $10,000 out of pocket.
I am deeply dubious of the short questionnaire used by some pediatricians to get to a diagnosis; I don’t know if that’s enough for accommodations or not. Certainly understandable for families that can’t spring for a neuropsych evaluation though – better than nothing, I guess.
Without getting too far off topic, there are some similarities but also some notable differences between IEPs and 504s.Within the school, if a student is meeting their academic goals, they may not qualify for services under an IEP, even if they could clearly benefit from services. Additionally, unless it is state specific (can’t recall) school psychologists cannot diagnose MH disorders (which includes ADHD). They are more so the gatekeepers to special ed, and evaluate a student to see if they qualify for special ed services. Here’s an interesting link to compare/contrast IEPs and 504s 10 Differences Between IEP and 504 Plan (and what is the same!).
Schools are busy and seem to only look at the end result. Some kids do fine in school but flame out with anxiety etc on the standardized tests.
I am just in the corner of, give the kids what they need. No kid that doesn’t truly need accommodations or extra time wants to just sit there longer just because they can. Too many parents judging other people’s kids don’t truly understand that some kids “need” the extra time just to finish the tests. Maybe slower processing comes into focus. For some just transferring to the test and marking it takes much more time for some so they lose their test time.
The tough part is determining what the students qualify for within the guidelines of special ed vs what they “need”, or could benefit from. There are lots of very helpful accommodations, and yes, if a student has, for eg, a visual scanning or fine motor problem they may qualify for enlarged forms, administration on a computer/tablet or even an aid act as a scribe. But sadly, schools are overburdened and understaffed, and within the academic environment their focus is to provide accommodations if the students have a learning disability and are not able to meet their academic goals (IEP) or to provide equal access to an education if they have a documented disability that interferes (504). My mom was a school psychologist. I remember having a discussion with her about a situation with a student. I said “he would benefit from…” and she had to reply “but he qualifies for….” . We went round and round a few times and than acknowledged the frustration and limitations within some public school systems. A processing speed issue can fall under a LD that the school psych should be able to address. Anxiety is a MH diagnosis that the school psych can’t officially diagnose. That’s where the private evaluation comes in. It would be wonderful if the system allowed schools to give all kids what they would benefit from, but it doesnt always work that way, sadly.
The issue is that the vast majority of kids would benefit from extra time on many types of tests. People discuss on CC about how the SAT is better than the ACT or vice versa because the former has harder questions but the latter requires more speed.
Extra time would often be nice in life too. But I don’t see many employers offering those accommodations. Yes, you can choose your job, whereas your choices in school are limited, but a boundary needs to be drawn somewhere. So I do have sympathy for schools, the challenge is that it tends to be the pushiest parents who get what they want.
Yep. Correct. I think (it was years ago) I might have said “he needs…” and she replied “but he qualifies for…”. But same end result.
As an aside, I know of a situation that happened very recently. A school system has a lottery for entrance to the public schools b/c they are overcrowded and there aren’t enough slots for the kids who live near the closest/local school. A family spoke to the head of the special ed at their first choice and asked if having an IEP would affect their chances of getting into that school. The answer was “no”. Well, the family got the second choice school, but stayed on the waiting list for the first choice school. A few weeks ago they got a call that there was a spot for their kid. Yay. Nope- wait, the school called back and said they’d made a mistake, and that since the student had an IEP they couldn’t take the student! WHAT?? That seems illegal (discriminatory). The parent called back the head of the special ed and delicately reminded him/her of the earlier conversation, where he/she said that the IEP didn’t matter. The response was “it didn’t matter for the lottery, but it does matter for the waitlist”. Say what?? Again is that legal?? But the family decided not to fight it, as who wants to start their kid off in kgn with an adversarial relationship with the school, and secondly if the school does not have the staff to address the needs of this student, then its probably a bad fit anyway. But geez!
The challenge is accepting the test for what it tests – the ability to do x amount of work of y difficulty in z time. If it’s treated as more than that – i.e., an intelligence test – the time limit should not matter.
Most of us could run or walk a mile. Few of us can do it is under 4 minutes. If the goal is to find someone who can win a race, you’re going to focus on the latter. But if just doing it is enough, who cares if you need a half hour?
In most educational settings, mastering the material is what matters so having the time you need to demonstrate that seems more important than racing through it.
Actually, if a company has, I believe its 50 or more employees and an employee has a documented disability, as long as the employee can perform “the essential functions of their job” the employer has to make “reasonable accommodations” under ADA regulations.
But meeting deadlines without extra time is usually one of the “essential functions” of many jobs, whether you are a fast food server, a firefighter or writing a report for your boss.
To bring this back on topic, we were interested to be told by S’s college that extended deadlines for assignments cannot be granted as an accommodation (though can be negotiated on a case by case basis with a professor), unlike in high school where this was a standard accommodation.
It’s the employee’s job description I believe that defines the “essential functions” of the job. Not sure how one measures “extra time” as a fast food worker, unless their job description says they must serve X number of customers in Y minutes.
And I frequently recommended a “hidden gem” accommodation for students who have planning, attention, organization, anxiety etc challenges- they can request (and it is often granted) to have no more than one exam in a day. Possibly can also be extended to not having more than one big project due on one day. Its a great accommodation!
However, no job is to sit in a room and be tested on information out of context.
S23 needs extra time due to visual issues (also ADHD, but that wasn’t even considered in his accommodations because the visual is an automatic). There are plenty of accommodations that he uses that have just become part of his everyday life that negate the use of extra time, but those are not available during standardized testing.
Untimed ACT/SAT tests would only function as a gatekeeping test to determine those that can work the fastest on a written multiple choice test without accommodations. Very few jobs or majors require those exact skills.
My kid tests in the 99.7% in mathematical reasoning and 99.?% for verbal reasoning according to his neuropsych. His research and coursework back this up when he can show his work and understanding in various formats although you can also see that he struggles in other areas (working memory, dyspraxia). Let’s just say, we were happy that all of the schools he applied to were test optional.
I actually agree with this. Our schools do not have a time limit on tests given during the term. The only time limit tests are the state required ones and final exams. I was the proctor for the extended time accommodation group for years for the state tests. My students usually finished first in the pack…despite being reminded to go back and check answers.
And for exams, there was a very lengthy amount of time allotted for each exam.
“To bring this back on topic, we were interested to be told by S’s college that extended deadlines for assignments cannot be granted as an accommodation (though can be negotiated on a case by case basis with a professor), unlike in high school where this was a standard accommodation.”
It’s very interesting that they phrased it that way. In my experience, as a professor and as a parent of a college student with accommodations, extended deadlines for assignments was granted in the directions that travel with a student but language was added like “as appropriate within requirements of class”. In college, a student needs to meet with every professor for every class every semester to determine how the outlined accommodations apply to that course–which could be what they meany by negotiated case by case? For instance, I always gave take home open notes/book exams so extended time in that case would carry a different look (if any) vs. a class with a different assignment due every day of a Mon-Wed-Fri class.
Most research IIRC shows that giving extended deadlines for projects simply leads to having the student procrastinate and not benefit from the extended time. They will still have trouble with deadlines. That’s why asking that the student not have 2 due in the same day is a more effective accommodation.
I don’t disagree with the potential challenges of extended deadlines and the value of creating a limit of one exam per day. Extending the 1/day accommodation to projects in a college environment will often have the effect of extended time. Ex. Meet with Prof A to say that a term paper for Class B is due the same day as a project for Class A. Prof A meets accommodations by extending the due date for Class A so as not to coincide with Class B.
Exactly. But if there aren’t 2 things due on the same day, an extended deadline for one may not be all that beneficial, especially for a procrastinator.
The ability to read hundreds of pages quickly enough to do the weekly reading is essential in many majors. Likewise, the ability to follow math operations at some speed may impact a student in keeping up with a class. In that regard, these are relevant skills to succeed in certain programs. But they are NOT a means of measuring intelligence, creativity, critical thinking.
But that doesn’t translate to how the test is taken for kids that use self-managed accommodations that aren’t available on the SAT/ACT (particular fonts, highlighted text tracking, audio-assisted text with adjustable speeds). The SAT is given in the worst possible format for kids with tracking issues. S23 uses accommodations that are not available on the ACT/SAT that allow him to read at a reading speed that is on par with peers. Without those accommodations not only is his speed reduced, but so is his stamina and accuracy. Therefore, there is no way for the SAT/ACT to accurately predict his ability to keep up based on his ability to quickly read the test material. The extra time in no way makes up for the stamina and accuracy issues. Nor is it something he would need with proper accommodations.
You all are welcome to shoo me to my own thread, but can I ask an ADHD question? One child is seeing a counselor (PsyD) who suggested kid has inattentive ADHD after talking to kid and having us all fill out a ~100 question survey. The counselor is suggesting we consider meds for kid. I thought ADHD couldn’t be diagnosed off of chatting/questionnaire? Am I wrong? If it will help my kid, great, but I’m hesitant about meds in general, so want to make sure that this is indeed an appropriate diagnosis before jumping into pharmacological treatment.