<p>I really wasn’t categorizing you in that group who seems overly concerned, to the exclusion of women’s safety, with this strange fear these people have of their sons being falsely accused of rape. </p>
<p>But, if you want to continually worry over this one small tiny little nitpik in policy, which has, as far as I know, led to no actual expulsions, go for it. It’s a bizarre thing to focus on, in my opinion. </p>
<p>As I said, I believe in innocent until proven guilty. We have massive protections in place to make sure the accused gets a very, very fair trial. But, some of this particular thread reads like a group of people concerned that convicting Jerry Sanduski might lead to false accusations of child abuse. (I’ve heard this argument, by the way). I just think it’s mostly beside the point.</p>
<p>One has nothing to do with the other. A person can acknowledge that a policy is unfair and still be upset that women are sexually assaulted. It’s not an either/or situation.</p>
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<p>Is that the only reason you can imagine for someone thinking such a policy is absurd?</p>
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<p>I think that the use of the word only and 1/3 in the same sentence is pretty ridiculous. 1/3 is a rather large number in this context.</p>
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<p>Are you incapable of thinking of both as travesties?</p>
<p>Bring me an actual example (other than the Duke case, which was not brought by a co-ed), of a man being summarily expelled from college for having drunken sex with a woman, where there was no other corrobating evidence of rape, and I will consider this as a travesty. </p>
<p>Right now, what we have are a lot of rapes with little in the way of repercussions, which is an actual travesty, which the DOJ agrees is a travesty, to the point of making new rules and new guidelines schools MUST follow, for a reason.</p>
<p>Consolation, it surprises me, and pleases me, that you have sons. As such a strong advocate for women’s empowerment, I hope you will never allow yourself to be silenced.</p>
<p>This is not about any one person’s son. I am not sure why you are making it to be.</p>
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<p>Where did anyone say this? You are making things up now. How did you make this ridiculous leap to that it is ok to have non consensual sex with anyone?</p>
<p>I don’t feel viciously attacked by YOU. By others…yes.</p>
<p>And yes, in addition to being very concerned about women being assaulted, and my main HOPE is indeed that young women will take responsibility and re-empower themselves. Not the least because I think that this is going to be the most effective means of halting what appears to be an epidemic of sexual violence on campuses.</p>
<p>My son was raised by an outspoken feminist to respect women. He has always been interested–as far as I can tell–in intelligent women whom he viewed as peers. I can’t imagine him being interested in taking advantage of a drunken freshman girl–who I agree is the most likely victim of sexual assault on campuses. Nevertheless, I have read numerous blanket insults, including some on this thread, about mothers of sons.</p>
<p>Frankly, I never worried about his being accused of assault until I started reading these CC threads that maintained that a girl who had had any drinks was automatically unable to give consent, and so the guy was automatically a rapist. Mini is very fond of stating this.</p>
<p>My recollection of my college days is that upon occasion I drank too much and engaged in encounters that I might regret later. (What Pizzagirl referred to as “beer goggles.” So far, she and I are the ONLY females who have ever admitted this on CC!) But IF this happened, I took full responsibility for my own actions. There is, IMHO, a huge difference between this kind of situation and a scenario in which a guy cynically plies a girl with alcohol to get her drunk. Several people have said here that the common situation at large coed universities is that the girl is extremely drunk but the boy is not. That is a different matter.</p>
<p>My son is not a rapist, or a rapist wannabe. I am not a woman-hating rapist-apologist. Yet he and I have been so labelled on these threads, repeatedly.</p>
<p>I completely agree that, statistically, the likelihood of a rape going unreported seems to be much larger than the likelihood that someone will be falsely accused.</p>
<p>Yep. And this is exactly why I say that this should be handled by the police and the justice system and not the schools. Rape is a violent crime, and just like any other violent crime, should be handled by police and by the justice system. I mean who ever heard of campo handling the murder cases or muggings which occur on campus? </p>
<p>Did he win his lawsuit against holy cross?</p>
<p>Consolation: I actually think the majority of opportunistic rapists who ruffie or feed young freshman (the overwhelming numbers of drunken victims ARE first years) bottles of vodka is vanishingly small, and made up of repeat offenders, not accidental one night stands.</p>
<p>I have no idea whether he won the suit. You contended that the policy was mythical and asked for proof that it is not mythical. It is a real situation and the accused is a real person whose life is in shambles because of an unfair policy. Recognizing this unfairness does not mean a person wants to see women raped.</p>
<p>Here’s an article about this case as well as a case at Sewanee , and it also contains quotes from DOJ about their thinking on the issue.</p>
<p>It is gratifying how quickly the men are getting themselves heard. It took the women longer. But, I’d guess we reach a better understanding of this and how to procede with these policies quite quickly with both men and women bringing the title IX lawsuits. It forces a dialogue.</p>
<p>re post 111: to have sex “with” requires consent.</p>
<p>If I had a daughter, I would have her read this article. Not to show her what a terrible school that Amherst is, or how unfair life is for women. Whether that is true or not. But to tell her to determine right NOW that she will not be a victim. To run, scream, fight, kill the SOB if necessary. When you have that in your mind ahead of time, if the time comes, you will be prepared to do what is necessary. Size does not control all situations.</p>
<p>And if it happens that no matter what you determine, that you are a victim, because the aggressor has a weapon and you do what you need to to survive…you call the police IMMEDIATELY. Forget the school. You don’t do this: “I did not report the rape after it occurred. Almost immediately after the rape I flew off to California, got lost in the beauty of the redwoods, the phenomenal art, and meeting the most unique people I’d ever beheld.” Seriously. Seriously. Oh my God, how ridiculous. If you have been victimized, you pick up that phone and call the cops immediately, and you make him pay. You don’t wait years to report it. It is extremely empowering to realize (as I did, at a very young age), that nobody is going to take care of you except for yourself. You can control your destiny. And if that control is taken away, you need to be your own advocate. Don’t spend your life marinating in being a victim. That is what makes people crazy.</p>
<p>concede that it is not a mythical issue? so combative. </p>
<p>I will say that compared to the number of rapes which have gone on and gone unpunished, it is a miniscule issue. However, I’m sure to any young man trapped in that hell it seems like the world has crashed down on his head.</p>
<p>So, as I taught my daughters not to go to parties alone, not to put their drink down, to make sure if they went on a date somebody met the young man and knew who she was with, to never leave friends behind at parties, to call and get help if anybody was incapacitated, male or female, to, if possible, stay away from the drunken scene, to never do shots, to never go with a boy to his room if she or he had been drinking unless someone was with her, parents of young men should probably teach young men not to have sex with drunk girls and to keep themselves safe from such possibilities as mistaken drunkenness for true consent.</p>
<p>Now, give the DOJ a call and see how quickly they change the policy. Read the article I linked regarding the case you cited. The DOJ doesn’t think it is a travesty.</p>
<p>But, you know, my preference is for these cases to get to a criminal justice process, for the police to take the reports and the names. I think in the case of true aquaintance rape, the perps name will show up at the police station again, if the school walks it over there and makes sure the names get taken. This really is a serial type of offender, which would protect the innocent, imho.</p>
<p>So, can we now have a dialogue where we can talk about thousands of young women who are sexually asualted and raped every year on college campuses and the mythological situation where men [are] falsely accused of rape?</p>
<p>Poetgrl-the DOJ is wrong. It is a travesty.</p>
<p>Krlilies-The numbers do not justify having a discriminatory policy. If one man is falsely accused of rape it affects his life. He does not deserve to be brushed aside simply because there are a large number of women who were actually raped. Every person deserves to be treated fairly.</p>