<p>The school experience does not fundamentally change either. Even at an Ivy League school, there are people who make you think “dear lord this guy is dumb, why is he even in the class”. There are people who form stupid and exclusionary cliques, and people who annoy you to no end. If you go into any college expecting a magical wonderland where everyone is intelligent, kind, and likes to hang out with you, you’re in for a very rude awakening.</p>
<p>I agree with amarkov. There are smart kids at fourth-tier schools and dumb kids at Ivies. And selectivity and intellectual challenge are not synonymous. That’s all I’m trying to say here.</p>
<p>Outside of our argument, but okay, if I have to deal with annoying people and idiots everywhere I go, then why not go somewhere that at least offers an enjoyable socially unrelated experience.</p>
<p>If you believe people do not change, should admissions believe you would be capable of doing the work now to succeed in a top tier college, after rejecting high school assignments? </p>
<p>Perhaps colleges prefer students who have demonstrated cooperation, and patience with teachers’ curricula. While it is easy to claim you are on a higher intellectual level than your grades indicate, if you have not done the foundation work in reading and math in high school, adcoms may doubt your ability to keep up academically.</p>
<p>If you excelled in a state college or community college for a year or two, a transfer might be the way to gain the higher tier college you desire.</p>
<p>If you expect top schools to offer a uniquely enjoyable social experience, you’re going to experience even MORE of a rude awakening. Because I guarantee you, at every single Ivy League school, there will be large contingents of people who look down on you because you did not graduate from an elite New England boarding school. If anything, the next tier down will offer a better social experience, simply because there will be many fewer of those people.</p>
<p>Amarkov, I’m assuming you missed the “unrelated” part of the phrase.</p>
<p>"Because I guarantee you, at every single Ivy League school, there will be large contingents of people who look down on you because you did not graduate from an elite New England boarding school. "</p>
<p>I never ran into such people when I was at Harvard. I ran into students whose hometowns were big cities who condescended to me because I was from a very small town, but I never ran into people who looked down their noses at me because I didn’t go to an elite prep school.</p>
<p>“< I say this because people don’t change like everyone thinks”</p>
<p>I changed from being a child/teen who was very shy and unsophisticated to begin a gregarious adult who is considered by many to be sophisticated (and by some folks to be a bit eccentric).</p>
<p>Most people I know change – evolve – over the years.</p>
<p>Okay then, I’m confused. What exactly is an “unrelated” social experience, and why do you think that the top schools are going to give you a better one?</p>
<p>@northstarmom:</p>
<p>Yeah, you’re right. As much as I’m sure there are elitist people there, practically none of them are going to say “you didn’t go to Exeter therefore you fail at life and you’re ugly”. Got a bit carried away :x</p>
<p>I feel as if I may be inclined to believe that people do not change because I have not had the fortune to meet anyone or observe anyone who has changed in any great way.</p>
<p>@Amarkov
The order of the words here is an important factor.
Though I may have worded it in an odd manner, what I said was
“socially unrelated experience”
Meaning if the social aspect is going to suck regardless of where I end up, then why not go somewhere that offers a host of other qualities to enjoy?</p>
<p>Shadowkitt, you probably haven’t had the chance to see how people change because you’re still reasonably young. People can be very different in terms of their personality and interests at age 35 than they were at, for instance, 15.</p>
<p>You’re missing my point.</p>
<p>The problem is, you seem to be one of the people who has an incredibly distorted view of the difference between top and lower tier schools. You seem to think that everyone and everything at an Ivy League school will be wonderful and exciting, while at a local state school you’ll have to dodge people throwing beer kegs at you just to get to a lecture.</p>
<p>Now, will there be more opportunities at an Ivy League school? We all know the answer is yes. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t get a really good education anywhere else, and it doesn’t mean that if you get into Harvard you automatically get one.</p>
<p>Shadowkitt, Id encourage you to be more open-minded about the opportunities offered at the non-worthwhile colleges (using your own definition). Its been my observation that even at non-selective colleges, assuming they are big enough to offer a large selection of courses and professors, you are free to be as academically challenged as you choose to be. Think your classmates are dolts? Then focus on the professors in your department most of the best ones at the non-selective schools are absolutely hungry to meet and to mentor the most academically engaged students! You create your own opportunities. Make an effort to go the extra mile, get to know the profs and grad students, excel in their most challenging classes, perhaps even try to get jobs working with them in their research endeavors.</p>
<p>I like how college selection is suddenly a binary. We can either go to an ~Ivy League~ (or equivalent) college or we can go to the local state school.</p>
<p>Stay here for long enough, and you’ll eventually give up on inserting the “but these extremes are not the only options” qualifier every time it’s needed.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Quoted for truth.</p>
<p>I should say that I don’t look down on the “non-worthwhile” colleges, they just don’t hold any draw for me. If we could, for a moment, move away from the idea of concrete factors that are observed during the college application process, I’d like to point out that if you are going to go to a school, there should be more than an acceptance that you will attend. What I mean to say is, you should want to go where you are going, or you will start and carry to some effect a guilt, doubt or disgruntled nature throughout the entire experience. Personally there has been no unconscious desire to go to any of the schools that I have referenced as “non-worthwhile”, I feel that if I were to “settle” at some school, that I would be either directly or indirectly dissatisfied the whole time. </p>
<p>I can agree with people pointing out factors that are difficult to realize when you are as young as I am, and just now getting out into places apart from where you have lived most of your life. That does not, however, exclude the ability to feel or understand certain things in some manner, which I think is a point everyone could agree on. It’s a lot like that saying that talks about not being able to make all possible mistakes in one lifetime, so you must learn from the mistakes of others as well as your own; you have to be able to experience some things for yourself, while other things you must have a certain empathy for. This is one particular case where I feel strongly that my life would be greatly enriched by the opportunity to study and advance myself somewhere that is oriented in a fashion that allows for the greatest possible growth. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, I just don’t feel that from the colleges that I am sure I will inevitably end up attending. </p>
<p>I hope that makes sense.</p>
<p>@ Amarkov
Most of my issues with people stem from bad personal experiences as well as the inability to connect with them in a fashion that I considered to be acceptable. The way I feel about certain things and the way I approach ideas is apparently very different from the people who surround me, not all people, but all the people I’ve had the “pleasure” of interacting with. Simply put, it seems like most of the people I have been around are completely content with sitting around never wanting to have any sort of interesting conversation about anything of value. Most of my conversations, even with people I call friends, start and end around “Hey, how was your day?” “Good” “That’s good” (three hours later) “Well, see you later” Note, the three hours was of silence. So if you can bear with me and understand where my somewhat jaded opinions are coming from, I would be greatly appreciative. </p>
<p>What I am hoping is that where ever it is that I end up, I will be able to find at least a handful of people who have some interest in what’s going on as well as some capability to put it into a verbal form. </p>
<p>More on topic, I’d like to discuss the feeling I mentioned earlier.
Has anyone else, or does anyone else, feel that you have to pay some mind to the gut feelings you have about certain situations or objectives? As I mentioned, while I was discussing Harvard (Only using Harvard because it is the only college I have had the fortune to interview with) with my interviewer, his description of the school both physically and functionally, including interactions with professors and piers, evoked a sense of awe and unbridled intrigue that spoke to me in a way none of the other schools I have read about have been able to mimic. Now, part of this can be attributed to the fact that it was someone speaking to me, not something I was just reading. Still, it speaks volumes for the value of the school and the experience it offers that a person who attended can back up everything I’ve read and breath life into it, giving me some sort of inspirational uplifting the likes of which pale the other institutions in the running.</p>
<p>@Haavain
You’re ignoring my ability to completely neglect rational thought and reason.
Really though, it’s how I feel. I fully understand that there are colleges at every level in between, but that doesn’t ease my discomfort. For example, if a person is afraid of flying, or nervous about some sort of disaster, it doesn’t really matter how much statistical proof you offer them, they will be afraid until it’s over. It’s made more disparaging by the fact that people around me are receiving acceptance letters, while I am still waiting, I now have a job and listen to half the people I work with talk about how they took a year off, which became two years, etc and being somewhat pessimistic really makes it seem like if I don’t go big, I’ll go nowhere. </p>
<p>So please, pardon the anxiety of someone who doesn’t have near perfect numbers and and a high school career of fortunate experiences.</p>
<p>I hate to sound rude. Somewhat at least.</p>
<p>But the kind of people you’re looking for do not exist. There is no person on this planet who would enjoy having conversations with their friend always be about important things. You wouldn’t honestly enjoy that either; I imagine that the conversations you’d like to have are with hypothetical people who either agree with you on everything or are easily persuaded to do so.</p>
<p>And that’s probably part of the root problem here. You clearly think that you are, or at least SHOULD be, a uniquely privileged person. You deserve to go to an Ivy League, because you need the enriching environment. The other people who would benefit from the environment, and also demonstrated that this was the case during high school? Obviously they’re just not as innovative and unconventional as you, so they wouldn’t gain as much as you would.</p>
<p>And of course, when someone questions all of this, obviously they’re just willfully refusing to understand your wonderfully unique perspective. Why else would someone disagree with you?</p>
<p>Shadow, you should consider focusing your efforts on seeing the positives in various terrific schools. As far as academics, there are a number of schools you can go to and succeed, and same for career. Going to one of these brand-name schools is really a matter of your fortune or misfortune. I understand the anxieties, but my best advice is that you should look forward to what you can do in the future to find what you want for yourself. </p>
<p>I understand the wave of awe and love for a certain environment, but better yet, look into the various environments you could find yourself in and research them really carefully, and find out how you can mimic what you’d find elsewhere.</p>