Admission Factors Outside of Numbers

Applying to College
101

<p>It’s absolutely sincere, because I see that the way you’re thinking about and approaching the college admissions process is similar to the way I did. I think that you don’t want advice or criticism so much as validation. You’re not just posting this because you’re arrogant and feel you’re entitled to admittance to a top school, as some might think, but because you’re staking your hopes on the idea that you will have an intellectually engaging experience wherever you go to college. Instead, you just want that validation, to know that your hopes are reasonable and that schools will admit you despite your less-than-ideal grades. The reason I posted so sincerely before is because I felt that people were misinterpreting your intentions (though, to be fair, I can understand why some people bristled at your attitude in some posts) and I thought that my mindset and experience had been a bit similar to yours. I personally had somewhat low grades, certainly above average but slightly less than those of my classmates who were applying to Ivies. I had high standardized test scores, however, good ECs, and a clearly defined “passion” I had worked toward. Like you, I tried to reassure myself that a “holistic” college process would not judge me too heavily on my grades and I had a realistic shot. At other times, I despaired that the college admissions process was such a complex game, just a “crapshoot” according to my guidance counselor.</p>

<p>When I first started researching schools and making a preliminary college list, I embraced the notion that there were thousands of schools in the US, hundreds of which are very good, and I should avoid the tunnel vision of only looking at well-known schools lest I miss a real gem that doesn’t have the same prestige or name-recognition. Eventually, I came to realize that while I could do well at almost any college, the colleges I was best-suited for, due to my academic level and ideal criteria (East coast, medium-sized liberal arts research university, urban environment (ideally New York), and an intellectual, cosmopolitan, sophisticated, diverse student body) just happened to be the schools everyone around here has heard of. I could certainly tolerate and even thrive in a state school or lesser known private school, but if I was truly looking for the best fit, it would be Columbia or Harvard or Brown or NYU. Then I made sure to construct a college list that included a variety of schools, all of which are well-known because that’s what I was interested in and what my guidance counselor believed I was capable of. I included Columbia and Brown even though they were real reaches because I knew I’d be a great fit, I eliminated Harvard because it was essentially impossible, and I added Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Vassar as a wild card in case I decided I wanted a LAC, and Fordham as a safety. Fordham’s a great school and certainly is selective, but as a national merit finalist coming from my particular New York City Jesuit high school, I was essentially guaranteed admittance. Perhaps that makes me arrogant; I hope not. I’m certainly an elitist in some respects, but I try my best not to be.</p>

<p>At any rate, I generally believe that people should apply to the schools that they are best-suited for. They should look at what their ideal college would be like, visit colleges to see what they’re like, and then create a balanced list of schools you’d be happy to attend, some of which are very selective, some less so, and at least one of which is a safety. Then you have to make the best effort you can on the applications and essays, and hope for the best but expect the worst. I was incredibly lucky to be admitted (early decision) to my top choice and dream school, but I certainly expected to be deferred and accepted the very real prospect of denial. As for you, Shadow, I think your desire to be in a more intellectually engaging environment is very valid; I applied to Columbia early for much the same reason. Nonetheless, make sure not to delude yourself into thinking that you’re a shoe-in, and make sure you apply to realistic choices as well as dreams and reaches, and that you’d be happy to go to any school to which you’re admitted.</p>

<p>Again, best of luck,
Peter</p>

102

<p>Shadowkitt, you sound like you are rationalizing. You sound full of intellectual ennui. I think you have to EARN the right to intellectual ennui. If you have not performed to the best of your ability, use this as a lesson as you go forward in life. It sounds like you might be blaming the system. I think it would serve you better to crack the books. It sounds a little like you are blaming the colleges in advance for not admitting you–accusing them of bias towards numbers etc etc. But let’s face it. You might write great essays and be intellectually grand, but the top schools have their pick of students smart like you who have ALSO performed to their ability in high school. How is a school to know you will do better in college? Will you do better in college? And why should have one of the coveted spots when there’s someone who has worked harder for it? Don’t be bitter. Learn from this. Go to college and make As. Work hard. Prove to yourself that you can do it. In this world, people are judged not only by intelligence but also by performance. You might as well get used to this idea. You’re not going to change it.</p>

103

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<p>Well of course a positive response to your predicament is how you “feel” the thread should have happened.</p>

104

<p>…wait, wait, wait. </p>

<p>Shadow - I get it now. Is this just fodder for your psych paper? Are we doing your homework?</p>

105

<p>Ha ha! Yes R12, that’s exactly what’s happened. =P </p>

<p>No, I seriously held some stock in what was taking place in this conversation.
I feel that the people who provided alternate routes for students and hopefuls in situations similar to my own are the ones who really gave value to the thread as a resource for anyone looking for more information about other roads to travel, even if this thread was filled with more than it’s fair share of excess that had to be picked through to find anything useful.</p>

<p>On a more personal level, Pwoods adequately summed up how I feel. He was right to point out that how I saw what I was writing, and how others saw what I said, differed greatly. In some cases to the point of inciting anger because of my somewhat poorly chosen way of saying something. He is also correct in his assessment of my personal gain to be had by this post, I was in fact looking for someone to tell me that I would not be incapable of some level of happiness and/or success because my grades were below par (for the standards of above average numbers). </p>

<p>Less personally, while still in Pwoods’ posts, I feel like his statement on college selection is wonderfully illustrated. He makes the point that you need to be happy where ever you end up by carefully selecting colleges that offer a “fit”. Though, he still says you should apply to the colleges of your dreams. Hope for the best, but be ready for the worst. These little bits of hope and encouragement that he extends are something that everybody applying to colleges, not just people in a particular situation, could benefit from. I feel like you could ready a basic summary that states the original intended idea for this post, as well as Pwoods’ posts, and pretty much take everything you need from this entire thread.</p>

<p>Not to ignore the other posts that offered kind words of advice or information of course. Apologies to the others who touched on subjects similar to Pwoods, the eloquent nature of his post really caught my attention.</p>

<p>@Jersey13
Since when have feelings been objective?
I think all responses should be positive, to everybody’s posts. That doesn’t mean I think everyone should lie to whoever is asking questions, I just think responses could be a little less harsh and unrefined. If you have an opinion, say what you want to say, just don’t say it in a way that could be misconstrued as intentionally hurtful.</p>

<p>Quite frankly, I’ve been enjoying this post since about the top of page 6. I feel as if R12 has caught on to the lighthearted nature of the post as it is now, so join in the fun. Talk about broadening horizons and the benefits of “hidden gem” colleges or non-Ivy-but-still-pretty-awesome colleges, talk about specific colleges and what they have to offer, talk about whatever you like really, just talk about it with a good attitude! =)</p>

<p>P.S. How is my spacing?</p>

106

<p>^Better!</p>

<p>What I worry about, when I see people like you posting on CC, is that these people will apply to top schools + in-state safety that they hate. And 9 times out of 10, they have only one acceptance in the spring, to that dreaded safety. It’s better to take a pessimistic view of your admissions chances, than overestimate and be painfully surprised.</p>

<p>Take YOUR stats and IGNORE your great personal/subjective qualities. Find at least two schools that are likely to admit you based on THOSE STATS. Force yourself to LIKE them, or at least be willing to attend them without too much regret. And then reach for the stars.</p>

107

<p>I’ve applied to Baylor and UNT as well as several other reaches. Baylor is my comfortable safety. It’s not a bad school and apart from the whole religious overtone there, I’ve visited and like what they have to offer. UNT is a last resort, nobody else has accepted me kind of place. I was really hoping to head outside of Texas though.</p>

108

<p>Look into Hampshire College. It’s part of a five-college consortium with Amherst, UMass, Mt. Holyoke and Smith.
When my daughter was in elementary school, one particularly brilliant boy stood out among her friends. This child was not just book smart, but very creative, funny, kind, an all around great kid. My daughter later went to a private high school while he stayed in the local public, and I was very interested in hearing where he had decided to attend college around the time of her high school graduation, expecting to hear some well-known top school’s name. When I ran into his mom and she told me Hampshire, I smiled.<br>
He remained true to himself and picked the school he felt would give him the creative
latitude he wanted and needed. I don’t know if he even applied to HYP, but I have no doubt that he would have been a competitive candidate.
He graduated a few years ago and has already made a name for himself in his field.</p>

<p>There are hundreds of creative and wonderful minds at schools all over the country, and not only at highly selective colleges. Do yourself a big favor and really take a look at some of the smaller, less well-known colleges like this that might fit your goals and personality, and don’t have the huge admission hurdles of the top 10-20 colleges.</p>

<p>This is the mission statement that they gave to US News:</p>

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109

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<p>There is a significant difference between being positive and being disillusioned. The majority of posters who gave you pragmatic responses and evaluations were not harsh or unrefined, yet you refused to listen to their advice. If you create a thread like this, you should be willing to hear both sides of the argument, not just laud those who express ideas that you want to hear.</p>

110

<p>Jersey13,</p>

<p>I understand your concern. Unfortunately it is a personal matter that only involves me. I thank you for your interest, but for the sake of this thread might we be able to discontinue this type of communication?</p>

<p>As we can see many people have provided useful information and are continuing to do so.
Thank you moonchild for your contribution =)</p>

111

<p>Shadowkitt, internet forums in general–and CC in particular–are not kindly, “Why hello, miss” places. It’s a bit naive to expect/demand more than basic courtesy and civility; you are asking for tact.</p>

<p>The OP, as indicated by your title “Admission Factors Outside Numbers,” presents a general case for discussion. If you want advice on your personal situation, you’d be better off–and would garner more helpful responses with less vitriol–making another thread with a more appropriate title and with stats (as specific as you’re willing to be, keeping in mind that we can’t help that much without a good idea of your “level”).</p>

112

<p>Indeed Keil. I’m afraid the title was for another thread. Whatever thread that was meant for that headline has now changed into something completely different that would require some reading to recognize. </p>

<p>I suppose this forum could stick around for general purposes, though I feel it has a lot of weighty filth at the beginning that hampers it’s ability to produce as much material as is fitting of such a subject.</p>

<p>As a side note, I’m not sure why any place can’t be that sort of place. It wouldn’t kill the world/forums-- particularly a college forum-- to step it up a little. =P</p>

113

<p>I’m not sure who you’re blaming for the tone or “usefulness or not” of this thread. </p>

<p>The fact is, you have yourself set the tone for the thread by implicitly asking other posters to validate you and perhaps to ego-stroke. When you failed to garner such a response, you instead attacked well meaning posters while praising those who were less blunt or more suited to the response you wanted. </p>

<p>I wonder why you’re attaching a value judgement to the posters now?</p>

114

<p>My friend earned 2 C’s and several B’s. However, he received an amazing teacher rec and was very involved in the San Francisco Youth Symphony, so he was admitted to all the schools he applied to with sizable scholarships.</p>

<p>I agree with Keilexandra. Sure, apply to those Ivies! But apply to a few other great schools you’re genuinely interested in attending. Even if you do get admitted (and it’s a crapshoot for almost everyone), you might not get enough financial aid, or other such problems could arise.</p>

115

<p>"Among my classmates, I didn’t find people who were hungry for numbers at all. I never knew a single other persons’ GPA or SATs once at my college. It never came up and it never mattered. I found kids who were just as hungry as I was for learning. For you to characterize Ivies as just full of kids who work the numbers to fool their way past the admissions committees flies in the face of what I know. "</p>

<p>Bravo/a.</p>

<p>After having spent 18 years in corporate America and now almost 10 in college admissions, I always tell kids that there are certain things you never talk about to others…grades, sats, salary, politics, religion and weight.</p>

<p>I went to an IVY (three times) and even though it was many years ago, it still looked at me as a whole person, rather than a sum of numbers. I was an actress, who majored in English, then drama, then law. What Yale liked about my record was that it included a well-rounded life. I did well in school, but didn’t let that interfere with my theatre, my hospital volunteering, my choruses, etc.</p>

<p>I got good grades because I liked it, I sat once for the SAT and I applied to one college. But I enjoyed the balance between school and life, and the Ivies (and most schools) enjoy that.</p>

<p>My suggestion is, if you’re not presenting well on paper, is to schedule an interview.</p>

<p>Lisa</p>

116

<p>That’s impressive, Lisa, and it’s nice to get a fresh perspective from someone who has been through a lot of what we are speculating on over here. You applied to one college, and it was an Ivy? I would be scared to not get in.</p>

117

<p>Lisa, given that you’ve spent 18 years in corporate America, I think it’s safe to assume that you attended college at least 22 years ago. A lot has changed since then. The Ivies have become exponentially more selective.</p>

<p>And interviews count for almost nothing, especially if the school in question (e.g. most Ivies) don’t emphasize “demonstrated interest.”</p>

118

<p>What you wrote about your initial expectations with high school and what the reality was during your time there, is exactly like my experience more or less.</p>