<p>This post is for Ms. Dean J. since she's filtering comments on her blog and reads here occasionally.</p>
<p>Dear Ms. Dean J.,</p>
<p>Thank you for your response (sort of). Well, as you said there's the statistical corelation between higher SAT scores and better performance in college. True we "can't say that those who don't score well are destined to do poorly in college", but we also don't have the statistics to say the other way as in "those who don't score well would be likely to do better in college". Although you gave an example of the woman who scored badly on SAT but performed great in UVA, it's not significant statistically-speaking. That's not to say her personal achievements are not significant.</p>
<p>Speaking of "quotas", UVA may not have written or official rules, but the perception by Northern Virginians is that admitted NOVA students have higher average SAT scores than those in the rest part of the commonwealth. Not to mention the fact that the course loads in NOVA high schools are more rigorous (APs/Honors). So I think to some extent a de facto quotas system does exist at UVA. To quell rumors it'd be better if UVA would publish SAT and GPA distribution for students from different geographic locations.</p>
<p>There's a misconception in your post about the 4-hour long SAT test. I'll admit it's not perfect (nothing is anyway). But the 4-hour period is backed by 4 years or even lifetime of learning since the birth of the test taker.</p>
<p>VA Dad, your issue seems to be with all colleges and universities seeing high school performance as more important than SAT performance, as UVA is not alone in this perspective.</p>
<p>Never in my life have I heard someone argue this point (not even employees of ETS). Virtually everyone involved in the process, from parents to students to admission officers, believes the SAT holds too prominent a place in students' lives as it exists already!</p>
<p>Students, what do you think? Should we let the SAT be #1 over transcript, teacher recs, activities and essays? Should we reduce you to a number instead of figuring out who you are? If so, replace me with a computer.</p>
<p>No matter what I say about quotas and cut offs, people will still perpetuate the idea that we have them. Believe what you wish despite what I've told you. I sound like a broken record on that issue! I read Fairfax students the same as Richmond and Tidewater ones.</p>
<p>By the way, I think there is a generational discrepancy when it comes to the understanding of what a blog is. The students seem to understand, probably because they've seen blogs for years and may have blogs themselves. Parents, commenting on a blog is to post a reaction to an issue. It is not an email inbox and it is not a chat forum (meaning, the author doesn't often reply to comments). If you want to propose a conversation on a topic, post a thread here.</p>
<p>Students, what do you think? Should we let the SAT be #1 over transcript, teacher recs, activities and essays? Should we reduce you to a number instead of figuring out who you are? If so, replace me with a computer.</p>
<p>Dean J,
Thanks for checking in. I think you are spot on in everything you've said. People get upset when the see that there are so many more kids for NOVA than elsewhere but they don't seem to realize that this is because students from NOVA are generally more qualified. </p>
<p>As far as your questions. I honestly think GPA and essays should be the most important in admissions, and it is my understanding that they are amongst the most important at UVa. </p>
<p>Once again thank you for your blog and for posting here. People don't seem to realize that in your position it is not prudent for you to comment on many of the issues they want to know about. However, I think we are all grateful for any nuggets of wisdom you can share.</p>
<p>I'm not going to look up the stat, but the Northern VA students make up a large percentage of our applicant pool. Obviously, no matter what our admit rate, there will be a large number of Northern VA students in the class because of this. Sometimes, I fear that works against us when it comes to yield. What student wants to go to college surrounded by the same kids they knew in high school? I think many opt to go to other schools because they want to branch out a bit.</p>
<p>I'll comment on most issues, though I won't cater to trolling, which I see a good amount of around here. I'll be around and will chime in now and then. This will probably be mostly in the summer, when the pace slows a tad around here.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm not going to look up the stat, but the Northern VA students make up a large percentage of our applicant pool. Obviously, no matter what our admit rate, there will be a large number of Northern VA students in the class because of this.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not to mention that the Northern Virginia region has the state's wealthiest and most educated residents...</p>
<p>Add to that the HIGH population of NOVA as a whole compared to other regions in the state. Of COURSE you are going to have more applicants and students from NOVA.</p>
<p>There are great kids all over the place. Since leaving the engineering specialty, I've been sent to the non-MST schools have have been blown away. This year I went to Tidewater, Bath and Allegheny Counties. There were great kids at every turn. </p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Dean J, I'm from one of the more rural counties of northern Virginia.
[/QUOTE]
I fear "rural" and "northern Virginia" are together in the same phrase less and less. On the flip side, it means spanking new high schools are opening with amazing programs and facilities. </p>
<p>One of my best friends from college grew up in Vienna. He'd always talk about Loudon being "the boonies", that he considered it West Virginia.</p>
<p>Cut to post-grad school: he & his wife bought a place in Leesburg.</p>
<p>Cut to the birth of child #2: he & his wife bought a place in Purcellville.</p>
<p>The kid that thought civilization ended at Dulles lives beyond the toll road. :p</p>
Students, what do you think? Should we let the SAT be #1 over transcript, teacher recs, activities and essays?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No one is saying that SAT trumps all of those factors, but yes, I believe SAT is more important than GPA.</p>
<p>Outside of a few rare exceptions, GPA is almost entirely a reflection of how well a student "plays the game" - how diligent he in doing busywork, how obeisant he is to his teachers, and how successful he is in learning to keep his mouth shut - in other words, how much of a conformist the student is. This unhealthy emphasis on GPA provides a continuous stream of submissive automatons whos only worry is getting that A without regard to any actual learning going on.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the SAT provides a very accurate estimator of the intellectual and innovative potential of students. Automatons are not able to come up with anything original because all they have done all their life is follow directions. These automatons are experts at regurgitating information preached to them by platitudinous teachers, but high scoring SAT students are more likely to be able to come up with their own original ideas. </p>
<p>The high GPA students know how to follow, the high SAT students have the potential to lead.</p>
<p>Also, you said that the SAT is only 4-hour test, but you conveniently left out the fact that students can take the test multiple times. Furthermore, if achievement on the test was as random as you make it out to be, there would be wide variation between different sittings of the test, but this is not the case at all. At subsequent sittings, students scores cluster very closely around their original scores.</p>
<p>That is the biggest bull ive ever heard. You, and I, and everyone else on this blog can openly admit that the SAT scores around the country are directly correlated to the income of the student's family. Therefore, students coming from wealthier families can certainly pay a 1000 dollars for a course that FORCES you to study for a test that most dont want to study for. Those of us who cannot afford it, need to study on our own. That is an incredible burden since that is on top of maintaining top grades, and balancing outside activities. It is completely ignorant to believe that students with high GPA's are somehow "players". That is a spit on the faces of all those people who worked very hard in HS by LEARNING, COMPREHENDING, ABSORBING, and UNDERSTANDING. This is a concept that the UVa admissions office understands very well, and therefore uses GPA much higher in importance than the SAT. The SAT is what it is. Standardized. People who practice more generally get a higher score. Im sure you can agree that a person who's score went up 100 points between testings hasnt witnessed an enlightenment and had his/her IQ miraculously increased dramatically. Take for example: Bill Gates: He is a very smart man and a leader...1260. For those who have more opportunities, many things are taken for granted and many things are not as they appear on the fascade.</p>
<p>Bklyn2Cornell, I agree that the SAT isn't everything and that scores correlate with income, but I do not agree with your assertion that it means nothing and that the only people who get high scores are rich people who have rich parents to pay for prep. You know what? I didn't do a prep course. I didn't even review much before hand. At my high school, with the advising I had, I wasn't even aware that such things existed. And my score was OK. In fact, I don't even understand how a reasonably smart person can score under ~700 on any of the sections. The test isn't hard at all. It isn't tricky. It's straight forward, multiple-choice, and is based on no prior knowledge. From things I've heard here at UVA from people who went to certain suburban high schools and from things I've read on CC, I would believe that some people with high GPAs "play the game," but, in the process, those same people learn, comprehend, absorb, and understand the material. The admissions office understands that the SAT isn't everything, but it understands that it is something, which is why the SAT exists. Go to any major university and take a survey of the <em>top</em> graduates (people going to elite PhD programs, medical schools, law schools) and see what they got. The average scores you'll see are high. Oh, and Bill Gates most certainly got higher than a 1260. Sources I've seen peg his score somewhere north of 1550, which even more of an impressive score pre-recentering. His acceptance to Harvard would have necessitated a high score, too - - his lackluster GPA (which was adversely affected by rather involving extracurricular activity and laziness) would have kept him out.</p>
<p>Whoo, sorry for my previous rant. Just A LOT of built-up frustration at all the overachievers at my school.</p>
<p>Looking back, my post was a bit over the top. Obviously, not all high-GPA people are automatons, but I still believe it is easy to "fake" a high GPA by yielding to the "system".</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Dean J: How many applicants on the waitlist have been offered admission?
[/QUOTE]
So far, very, very, very few. I should add another very to that.</p>
<p>It takes a while (we're talking a few weeks) to carry out the waitlist selection process.</p>
<p>I doubt Bill Gates even knows how he scored on the SAT. No one remembers their score after a few years because it ceases to be important when you get to college. Unless you are a tour guide, no one asks how you did on the SAT.</p>