As an USC parent, I have been extremely impressed over the last 2+ years in terms of all the things that USC does regarding internal communications with their student body, external communications with parents, financial aid, all of their various online portals and a host of other services. They do seem to be a very well-oiled machine in almost all regards from my family’s perspective. My younger daughter dreams of following her sister’s path, albeit for very different reasons, and is now already a current applicant for Fall 2017 entry as a hopeful freshman. In fact, she applied the very first day possible to do so.
This brings me to my one area of concern about USC thus far… their overall admissions mindset.
First of all, I have yet to be able to decipher why USC is one of the few elite universities that do not offer any form of early application, whether Early Action or Early Decision. Does anyone have any insight as to why USC has stuck to their Regular Decision only policy?
It has always seemed surprising that USC’s yield rate is far lower than many of the other top-25 or even top-50 colleges, languishing in the 32-33% range. An Early Admissions offering of some kind seems like a good way to counteract such a disparity, making it easier or more predictable in terms of managing yield expectations.
I have also read a number of posts here on CC that seem to suggest a movement away in recent years from any sort of mindset of keeping families intact. The suggestion is that a number of even equally qualified siblings or legacies have been rejected in order to allow for the acceptance of others. I am all for inclusion, diversity and equal opportunity. I just hope that there is still some consideration being applied toward the concept of strengthening or deepening family ties to the Trojan Nation. The university potentially runs the risk of alienating certain alumni otherwise. Of course, I clearly have a vested interest in this too, as I would like my daughter to be able to attend her top choice university. Thankfully, her stats are on par with or maybe even slightly better than her sister’s were 3 years ago as an applicant to USC.
And finally, as my daughter has already applied to 10 different universities through the Common Application, we find it a little strange that the only university that has not already downloaded her application and supplemental materials is the school that she applied to first, on day 1, August 1st, – USC. Is this simply due to their mindset of not having an early admissions offering? and thus they can start evaluating applications much later than other schools? With the December 1st deadline though for scholarship consideration and a record number of applications last year (over 54K), I would suspect that USC would be among the first to start processing applications. Is my daughter alone in this… or is this the same with all applicants so far this year?
Not sure about all these questions, but I can suggest some insight into the yield rate - you actually identify it.
ED increases a school’s yield dramatically. The 5 Ivies (or other selective U’s) who do ED fill between 20 and 55% of their class with early applicants. For all ED Ivies it is at least 40%. For Penn (55%) that mean you get almost 100% yield on over 1/2 your class. That improves your overall yield immensely.
We have a colleague who used to work in USC admissions and he was very proud of the fact that USC had not gone to ED for that very reason. He saw it as nothing more than a move to job yield rates. It is certainly not helpful to students. While it does make yield rates higher it shows a decided lack of courage on the part of institutions that do it.
I think the Dec. merit aid deadline acts as a sort of EA for USC. I don’t remember if the acceptances go out any earlier than other schools, but it does seem to let USC know who is really interested, which is all EA does for the school (it does give the applicant some relief to get the EA acceptance if they do - but many private EA’s are REA, so in a way, it’s better for higher stat students that USC doesn’t force them to make that choice between say, Stanford and USC as REA - then they would miss the Dec. 1 merit aid deadline.)
The other thing that affects USC’s yield, it appears to me, is they are not afraid to go after high-stat applicants with aggressive merit aid packages. I know of a couple of my kid’s fellow students who had difficult decisions between Harvard and USC in one case and MIT and USC in the other where USC had offered really attractive merit aid that the need-based numbers in one case couldn’t match.
Can’t help you on the processing time, but I would suggest your kid send an email to admission office. They were super-happy to communicate with ours. We parents did no communication until we had to have money talks. Our kid had fairly regular communication about the application process and making sure everything needed had arrived etc. They were very responsive.
I can tell you my kid is there as a freshman and I was a bit skeptical about the “Trojan family” line, but so far she has found USC overall nothing but awesome. Challenging, but exciting, well organized and the administration has been very helpful. We found the same thing in the decision making process. Don’t know how that trickles down to siblings.
That’s all I know. Hopefully others will shed more light.
That was exactly my contention… that ED should be an easy solution toward increasing yield dramatically. Back in March-April, I saw a # of posts here on CC from some very surprised college applicants who had been accepted at schools like Stanford, Princeton, Yale, Duke, etc. while also being rejected by USC, UVa and BU (among others). The general contention was that some colleges who have a much higher acceptance rate overall but a lower yield rate were actively rejecting students who they perceive were bound for other places… as some form of yield protection. To me, USC of course should simply be accepting the most qualified 9K or so applicants without having to use such tactics. I am not saying for sure that they are even doing such (rejecting certain stellar applicants to protect yield). But an ED or even an EA offering sounds like a better way to determine high demonstrated interest while also improving the school’s yield.
USC clearly does not need to follow the Ivies lead in all instances… but what you point out seems like one path they should be considering.
From what I understand, if USC offers you a merit scholarship, you do learn that early / along with your admission letter… in Jan-Feb. Or, if they even offer you an interview toward such, that is also tantamount to an offer of admission. So some merit scholarship level applicants learn their fate early. But for everyone else, it is a long wait from Aug-Nov to late March.
I generally agree related to USC’s aggressiveness in terms of offering merit aid packages. But even with such, the yield rates have not improved and remain at or near 33%.
I will pass along your suggestion related to direct communication with Admissions. From what I recall three years ago, it seemed to take them until January or so before they even started making status update webpages available. So they certainly move slower on that front. All 9 other colleges are already at that stage already. But with so many applicants these days, that seems reasonable I guess.
But the question is should USC even care about yield? I would suggest not. It’s a pretty meaningless statistic - and again, changing to EA or REA (ED is a cop-out, I’m glad they don’t do that) would probably not work well with the current Dec. 1 aid cut-off.
Just my personal view, but I prefer USC (or any other school) not worry about yield (or high application rates - the number of trees that were cut down last year for competitive schools to send glossy communications to kids they were never going to admit had to be staggering.) and instead worry about identifying and appealing to the types of students they want to attract, and finding ways to lower costs and increase accessibility to good and ambitious students.
Schools should spend the marketing money on the campus, not getting the hopes up for 20 or 30,000 kids who will never even get a close read once their SATs and GPAs are scanned.
I certainly hear & understand what you are saying regarding yield, but it has to be something that Admissions Offices everywhere are genuinely concerned about. When US News ranks universities that way too, under the banner “National Universities Where Students Are Eager to Enroll”… it has to sting a bit for USC being only 137th. USC is rightly proud of being ranked #10 on Niche’s rankings and #23 on US News Ranking. #137 on the yield rate list is nothing to brag about.
… and when Harvard is at 81% and Stanford is at 78%, USC cannot really be content being behind UCLA and even behind schools like Ball State and Morgan State down at 33%. Its even behind many schools that I have never even heard of. At least I would think that USC would prefer a better conversion rate once admission letters go out. They certainly act like they care… with the impressive nature of their admissions packet design/layout and with their follow-up contacts after they accept students.
Maybe they should not care, as you say… but I believe that yield/conversion is a matter of pride for all schools.
I would not necessarily say that EA/ED is as much a cop-out from the school’s perspective as it is also an opportunity to really identify who is most interested in USC or any college. Almost every college has a “Why ______?” type essay prompt on the Common Application. They legitimately want to know who has done some research about their university and who has a bona fide commitment to their college. Early admission programs speak louder in determining interest level vs than just saying it in an essay. Clearly… every student implies a high level of interest to every school they are applying to… and obviously they cannot be equally interested in every one of them.
You definitely make an excellent point about how schools waste a ton of paper and resources marketing and recruiting. Just this week, my daughter received well over 50 direct solicitations from colleges in the mail. Some are even from colleges that she has already applied to… yet the mail keeps coming and coming.
But I realistically do not see any of these trends ending. Each year, USC proudly announces that it had a record # of applications received… which then results in a record low acceptance rate. And they are no different from most of the other universities out there.
They do not start processing any applications before the December 1st date, so who knows when they will downloade info. Even if everything is in for a student, they really don’t look at any apps until all the apps are in for scholarship consideration on 12/1. Then those wheels start turning on that project. I know someone that works there, but if anyone calls they will tell you this, it doesn’t matter if it comes in on Sept 1 or Dec 1. That is why plenty of students take their time with it, sometimes they grow or have things to add that occur senior year. Admissions are busy, I wouldn’t contact them with nuisance questions, but do if there is a legitimate concern. They are the ones with your app and influence as to where it goes next. I wouldn’t want my kid to come off loopy or impatient or like they are the most important thing in the world.
@blueskies2day Thanks for the input. Wow… they must work both hard and fast thereafter then, if they are waiting until December to begin. But your points make sense, especially in terms of coming off over-zealous.
ED is a total cop out, used by schools to protect their admits from shopping.
EA is different. (although REA is a mini-cop out. At least Stanford and other allow state school applications as well.)
Why does Harvard, Stanford and MIT have EA while the “next tier” schools do ED? Because Harvard, Stanford and MIT (and some others) are confident that students will, if the fit is right, choose them. And if the fit is not right, there’s someone else they accepted who will be great.
The “next tier” of ED schools don’t want to compete, so they lock up their admits. Any of the ED schools could switch to EA - and there was a big conference years ago where they almost did… but chickened out.
ED also hurts middle class and lower income students as they can’t shop fin aid as well.
But I’ll get off my soapbox. USC has plenty of Applicants. It’s rep is growing. I hope they don’t start to fixate on their yield ranking. It’s a silly metric that is easily jobbed. I’d rather the 5 Ivies et al went to EA rather than ED. That would be a move in the right direction.
I agree that ED is a slippery slope & is structured in favor of the institutions themselves. It does strike me as a way for colleges to control applicants… especially from wealthier families. It is also an advantage to those wealthy families themselves, as they can best take advantage of ED offerings.
ED is, as you say, also a serious gamble for anyone in need of financial assistance to attend college. Anyone applying for financial aid should reserve the option to compare such FA offers later.
I remain in favor of EA, as I am primarily looking at it from the perspective of the high school seniors going through this process. In the case of USC, their RD-only policy will clearly have no impact on my family any further, as we are now done with the college application process overall and are in “the waiting room”.
In our family’s case, my D2 made the decision that USC would be her top choice last August while she first visited there. So her waiting period for that decision is really, in her mind’s eye, Aug 2015 to March 2017. Last month of course was the earliest that she could technically apply… and those subsequent 8 mos from Aug thru March will be a very long time to wait for an answer. For adults, especially older adults, 8 mos passes quickly. For teenagers, it can seem like an eternity.
Moreover, with EA not available as an option, she is basically being compelled to apply to many other schools as a fall back option. It would just have been nice for her to have avoided the time, energy and expense of 12 more applications. But oh well… it is done now. And time will tell whether those extra applications were just a wasted effort or a valuable safety net…
@WWWard Hear ya on the stress/extra work. USC could probably do an “early notification” or something. I don’t have the timelines in front of me and don’t know how realistic that might be. (Or “legal” since the schools seem to have agreements on this stuff.) I can’t recall if the scholarship kids get notified earlier.
I think it would benefit a lot of students if the more selective schools didn’t encourage 40, 50 or 100k apps, and just got through the process quicker… but it’s not really about the students in many cases.
I definitely encourage applicants to apply to one EA schools, and, if they don’t have one they are dreaming of going to, apply to one they could imagine attending and think they can get it. For my kid for sure it all got easier once she had her 1st acceptance.
Good luck. You are obviously familiar with SC - I hope it works out for you D. See you round campus one of these days!
And Yes… those granted an USC merit scholarship are notified a bit earlier (Jan-Feb vs March) & of course even getting offered an interview is a signal that you have at least been accepted.
So I guess there remains hope for that at this stage too
I fully agree… I believe that it has gotten out of hand with the overwhelming effort on the part of schools to generate more and more inbound applications. Every year seems like a new record. The advent of the common application also made it so much easier to apply - and to apply to multiple schools… and that streamlined process online then further promotes “a vicious circle”. The downside of making it easier to apply is that applicants then also apply to more schools, making it a greater challenge overall to get in among a sea of 1000s of extra applicants (all who are also applying to more schools)… which again equals having to apply to even more schools out of an abundance of caution…
And so it goes.
Here’s hoping that USC is all that your daughter hoped it would be. D1 is very happy there.
@WWWard So far so good - and she’s close enough for the occasional Sunday dinner, so we love it too.
I’m sure you know this but make sure she signs up for the regular interview as soon as the let her - they fill up really fast and there are only a limited number.
I’ve seen lots of comments over the years on CC where people said they were accepted to USC but had to go elsewhere because they didn’t get enough financial aid.
That doesn’t seem to happen at places like Harvard and Stanford.
Good point. I guess that could of course be a huge determining factor then, especially if you are comparing financial offers among schools where some of them have a “no loan” policy. I know that at least some of the Ivies are that way.
USC is supposed to have a policy where they pledge to meet 100% of the demonstrated financial need, but their formula does include grants, loans and work study. It is not all just university grants.
But of course if you are comparing offers among HYPSM level schools and USC, that perceived disparity in reputation or prestige may also simply lead to applicants to ultimately rejecting USC’s offer of admission.
My D2 plans to attend USC even if she gets in to Stanford, Yale, Brown, etc. (as she is an applicant to SCA at USC) - but as you suggest - that final decision will not be made in a vacuum. The actual cost of attendance may have to become a factor too. Hopefully not…
USC spent years marketing the “meets 100% financial need” which is often times misunderstood by first time applicants, but does get more applications. A lot of people apply to USC blind to the fact they they actually have to pay for an education. Many are stunned to realize loans are part of financial aid, particularly in this “what can I get for free and not have to work for” mindset today. Also, they see the “ease” of a full tuition scholarship - kids believe that being the #1 kid in a school of 37 students, or 4.0 with some APs will certainly result in the full. Then they don’t realize full tuition isn’t full costs. People with half tuition scholarship don’t realize how much is really left to pay till they get in then do the math. “Uh oh.” Then there’s the NMF kids that think they automatically get in and get half. There is so many applying that will never go even if they get in, but it makes the app numbers look good. In the last year or so, I see some effort on USCs part to explain meets full need up front, but many are still mislead to apply or just do because they didn’t do the research. There is a lot to learn about how it all works in a short time - it’s too much to put on a kid, but a lot of parents aren’t involved in the depths of the process either. So many will apply oblivious to the reality of it all.
Excellent advice. And you are likely right in that most kids and/or parents do not really come to ever fully understand the nature of or specifics regarding financial aid until they see the actual official breakdown in writing. In our case, we were fortunate and the FA offering was sufficient to allow D1 to attend there. And the two subsequent aid packages thereafter have each been sufficient as well. But I get that such may not be the case with others.
But… to USC’s credit, it is all there in writing and even offered within videos on their website, if you just bother to read it or watch it. If it comes as a complete surprise to you when you receive that official FA package in detail, then that is on you… as either an applicant or parent. In today’s world, with the wealth and depth of information readily available to anyone willing to simply go online and spend 1-2 mins looking it up, it is hard to blame any university. They are offering the education… but in the final analysis - it is “your” education. So do your own research and take charge of its path and destination.
In fact… you do not even have to read it if that seems too challenging. USC offers 12 simple videos explaining it all in detail and by category. This one is the main overview of the process, how to apply, the breakdown, etc. :
Yes… it may be too much to expect a kid to look this up. So today, as an USC parent, I am doing my part to help educate anyone willing to click on a link and learn… lol Hopefully it helps to spread the information.
But back to your point, I see nothing slowing down the total # of applications growing. And realistically, I think that USC likes seeing that record # of applications grow each cycle…
USC just reported that its yield jumped to 37 percent, up from 34 percent last year and 32 percent in 2015. At this rate we will be at 40 percent in just a couple of years, if not next year.
Hopefully it helps to spread the information.