Admissions: Extracurricular Performing Arts School or "Special" Choir

College Majors Musical Theater Major
101

<p>Jeff…I’m with you on this. I think a kid should get involved in whatever activities he/she enjoys in high school. Not everything in high school needs to dovetail with college pursuits or college major. There’s time for that once in college. By the way, we don’t have show choir here but my MT daughter was in Chorus and also the select one at our high school. </p>

<p>ActingDad, you wrote:

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<p>Sight reading is an important skill for a MT performer to have! For example, when given a callback appointment for a musical in the professional world, and the musical is a new one and you have maybe one or two days to learn the material, it surely helps to be able to sight read the new music in order to learn it (and this even happens a lot in MT classes on the college level too). You ask when does a MT performer have to sing something they’ve never heard before. This happens a LOT. For instance, my D just got cast in NYC in a new musical and I am sure in her four callbacks, she had to sing from the show and the music is not known. She has had to do this MANY times. I think I even wrote upthread about my D being cast professionally in NYC when she was a youngster and in that case, she had to learn the material right in her audition appointment having never heard it before. Her sight reading skills even that young came in handy. Also, if you can sight read, you can accompany yourself on piano to learn new music. Ya know, when you have a callback in the professional world or even an assignment for class in a BFA in MT program, you may get a song you have never seen and have 24 hours to learn it and nobody is going to be playing it for you on piano in the meantime. Being able to sight read makes a BIG difference, not to mention being able to play piano! </p>

<p>As an aside, while this is not a reason for a performer to know how to sight read, the fact that my kid can sight read so proficiently has meant she has been hired to play for auditions, to be a musical director for musicals, to be a coach for private musical theater performers, and to teach/accompany in MT classes in high school and BFA programs. This skill has come in handy even in her non-performance work and has meant being hired to do a lot of related jobs in her field for survival job income.</p>

102

<p>For my own education, when you refer to sight reading vs. sight singing, what do you mean? Does “being proficient” in sight reading mean you could plunk it out on the piano or does it mean you could look at a sheet of music you’ve never seen before and sing it on the spot? Also a follow up question, for those of you who do have or had kids that went off to college able to look at a new piece of music and just sing it, where did they learn that skill? Piano class? Voice lessons, choir? or not at all until they got to college etc. Thanks!</p>

103

<p>halflokum, yes, when I wrote sight reading I meant either being able to see music for the first time and sing it or play it on piano. Same term. </p>

<p>To answer the other question, in my D’s case, the reason she got so proficient at it was due to learning to play two instruments for years (as did my non-MT kid) prior to college. In fact, she placed out of the two years of Music Theory at NYU that was required in CAP21, having never taken the course in it at our HS, but simply having learned a great deal about music theory particularly from her piano teacher for ten years and of course, played a second instrument too. Being able to sight read music on piano transfers to being able to sight read it on other instruments and for singing too. </p>

<p>To add one more thing…for the ten years my girls took piano lessons (each did this), their piano teacher required them to participate in National Piano Auditions which are like adjudications, and they were required to play ten pieces by memory, but also part of the audition was sight reading. </p>

<p>While not exactly on topic, but related…I really think it is a great skill for those going into MT performing to be able to play piano. It has become a great asset to my D, and her work in the field is diversified, in part, due to this skill and so she is a singer/songwriter, MT composer/lyricist, musical director and coach/teacher, and so on. In fact, those years of learning to play instruments were the only “training” so to speak and she was not trained as a composer, but is paid as one now.</p>

104

<p>Chiming in to agree with soozie on the incredible benefit performers receive from knowing piano! Being able to do anything from plunking out your part to being able to accompany yourself is invaluable (especially if the student ever chooses to teach!). Thanks for that side note.</p>

105

<p>I get that kids need to sight read for MT and that piano is important. However, how can someone be great at dance, great at singing, great at piano, great in acting- oh- and still manage to be great at school as well? I can see someone being a triple threat-but when would they have time to also be proficient in piano? Something’s gotta give! My daughter is really strong in dance, singing, and acting but cannot read music. (She isn’t studying MT in college but was accepted to MT programs). She would never had time to also take piano plus the expense would have been hard. She barely had time to do her homework! Sure she would have loved to have played an instrument but she wanted to spend more time on dance, acting, and singing. Her voice teacher taught her a little bit but not enough. My son can read music (plays guitar) and is a very strong actor but doesn’t sing or dance. He’s studying straight acting and has had to take voice and dance in college. I truly admire pianists. That is a great skill to have and I wish my kids had time for it.</p>

106

<p>You don’t have to be a great piano player to sight read music. My son has been taking one 30 minute piano lesson a week for 2 years. He still pretty much stinks. But his choir director commented to me how much his sight reading has improved. He will never love the piano but he has learned a lot!</p>

107

<p>OK chiming back in to answer all collectively that wrote after mu post #102 and on through 106 zs well as anyone also chimes in after I hit send… I’ll probably agree with you too but won’t know that I did at the time. </p>

<p>Sort of a combined reply to theatremomma and supportive… my daughter doesn’t play the piano either. We had to triage that for other things in my daughter’s case, she was a competitive swimmer and up at the crack of dawn for that. SoozieVT and MTCoach and other of like mind, I could not agree more that sight reading is the skill to get under your belt as fast as you can for all of the reasons you’ve stated.</p>

<p>My daughter did do an (unnecesary as it turned out) crash course in piano before the U Mich audition and has brilliant piano hands. She can palm a basket ball not because her hands are big but because her fingers are freakishly long. :slight_smile: She is a freshman at NYU and totally gets the need for that skill and envies her friends who already have it in the bag. Second semester although she does not have a prescribed keyboarding class, she is squeezing in an elective in piano at Steinhart because she knows she needs it. I agree with all who say these MT kids need it because for sure, they do.</p>

<p>She entered college able to read music and sort of sight sing because of her years of voice lessons where fortunately her teacher did work with her on that. But I’m positive she didn’t enter college like SoozieVT’s daughter in proficiency (I have the luxury of saying that with some certainty knowing who her daughter actually is and… we’ll she’s pretty extraordinary). My daughter can figure it out but not immediately on the spot with ease like some can. Luckily her class work at NYU includes studio time for that purpose and for sure she is getting better. I am positive that this is a necessary skill to have to survive and I’m glad she’ll get better at it but no, she didn’t land at NYU as an ace but she knows that she needs to be as fast as she can get herself there.</p>

108

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<p>Admittedly, it was hard to do all these things in high school! My kids’ lives were so jam packed (totally out of choice) in high school, but I suppose this was good prep because life in a BFA program (or even my other D at a very challenging college and on a varsity sport team) was also jam packed, as is my MT daughter’s life now that she is working professionally in the field.</p>

<p>It was very hard to fit in all these things, and especially because we live in a rural area and a lot of the activities and training were outside of school and involved a LOT of driving, and often quite far on a daily basis. My kids are good at time management. And they are motivated and driven and that helps. Academics never suffered because they are the type who want to do their best in school and achieved highly in terms of grades and all that kind of stuff. But they were often up late at night with schoolwork, because their activities took them out all afternoon and every early evening (sometimes late evenings too) and on weekends. They even worked in the car rides as these were long given where we live and how far we had to travel to their activities. </p>

<p>Sticking with my MT kid…She took about 13 hours of dance per week in HS, and this involved five days per week and the studio was 25 miles away. She was in two select dance troupes that also rehearsed. She took a voice lesson once/week and that was 50 miles away. She took a piano lesson one night per week. She took a guitar lesson once/week but that was during the school day. We have no acting classes here at school or outside of school and so she never had any (other than at summer camp). However, in her last year of HS, she did go for a private monologue coaching once/week for six months and that was 50 miles away. She was in chorus and jazz band at school and those were during the school day. She was in a select chorus at school that was once/week after school. She was in the school musicals (gave up the plays, but was in the HS ones while in middle school). She was also in community theater shows which rehearsed at night and on weekends, but did those when not in the HS musical, but those were both local and also 50 miles away. </p>

<p>Were there schedule conflicts? Yes! For instance, when she was in the musical at a theater 50 miles away, she had to temporarily miss certain dance classes. Piano involves a lot of practice. The hours of practice were hard to fit in during high school with how many hours were out of the house for other activities and also homework. And every May were those National Piano Auditions requiring memorizing ten challenging pieces (no sheet music allowed!). I recall in senior year, my non-MT daughter did the piano auditions, but chose to only do them for a different certificate where you don’t have to memorize the pieces as there was no time to do that (she also played a second instrument at the All State Level and was in three varsity sports). So, yes, sometimes, something had to give when there were schedule conflicts and such. Still, years of lessons on two instruments continued throughout their youth and same with being in band and jazz band. When you juggle many things, you often are not at the “top” of any one thing. For instance, while my kids studied piano for ten years prior to college, they could not enter a degree program for piano. However, my MT daughter is now paid to play piano!</p>

109

<p>I am amazed at how much ground there is to cover to address all aspects of MT for a high school kid. D gets 3+ hours a day at school in acting/dance/voice/production/theatre tech and then takes outside dance, voice, MT production/acting, and piano/theory after school and on weekends (working around after-school and weekend school show rehearsals and crew assignments). She then tries to cram in attendence at as many professional theatre productions as she can, reads plays, and listens to as much of the Broadway canon as she can with her iPod headphones stuck in her ears while running back and forth between all her activities (I sort of hate it now that when we watch shows she knows all the actors, plots, and songs better than I do - not a parent any longer, just a [weaker] peer when discussing theatre!). Meanwhile, she stays up late every night doing her pre-AP and AP academics and holding up a high GPA because she knows grades=merit money. I get exhausted just driving her around town and helping with homework.</p>

<p>She loves every minute of it.</p>

<p>She used to play tournament softball, and I thought THAT was a lot of work (pitching lessons, batting lessons, conditioning, practice, clinics, travel, etc.) but MT easily matches that in terms demands on time and effort.</p>

<p>Speaking of sight-reading and choir, my d was fortunate to have a great middle school choir director who taught them moveable-do solfege from day one in 6th grade. By the time she left for high school, she could sight read parts in major keys fairly well (chalk up a win for being in choir!). Her voice teacher works with her on sight-singing and her piano/theory teacher works with her on ear training, so as a HS sophomore she can sight read well, both vocally and at the keyboard.</p>

<p>She studies piano with three objectives in mind: (1) get good enough to pass the piano barrier in college so that she doesn’t have to take class piano; (2) be able to sight read scores; and (3) do basic accompaniment for various rehearsals and lessons in her future career.</p>

110

<p>Thanks soosievt. There’s no doubt that your MT daughter is exceptional- I know- I’ve seen her work and she truly is! However, my kids are also really great at time management. As many of you know, my kids went to a competitive performing arts school and when they were in a show, they often did not get home from school until after 9:30 p.m. (after leaving for school at 7:15 a.m.). My daughter not only carried a full course load but also had to take online classes and be disciplined enough to complete that homework as well (which was a ton). </p>

<p>Both of my kids graduated with extremely high GPA’s and were constantly running back and forth to their school. We live in the largest city in the U.S. landwise and it’s pretty spread out. My daughter took acting, voice, and dance at school and was in the Show Choir her junior year. She opted to take a traveling Issues Based theatre class her senior year. She took two dance classes outside of her school ($98/month) and once a week voice lesson- 30 minutes away ($200/month). That was just for her! That’s not even including my son. Our family has a hard enough time paying for all of that- plus college for my son. When she wasn’t in school and doing her homework- for AP classes, she was practicing her dance and voice and memorizing lines or in rehearsals. When she took voice, I thought it was more important for her to work on her voice because that’s what most people will hear. I didn’t allow my kids to do community theatre because their schedule was busy enough and I didn’t want their school to suffer. Plus, there aren’t a lot of parts for teenagers. </p>

<p>My kids barely had any social life at all. I do believe that’s why my daughter decided NOT to study MT in college. In high school, the departments pulled her in so many directions. I’m not trying to make this a one-up contest it’s just that all of our kids are pretty spread out with all of their activities. I can’t imagine if she would have had to practice piano as well. Personally, I believe that when she took voice and Show Choir at school, she should have been taught sight reading. Her private voice teacher was able to give her some but if I’m spending that much money for voice, then I wanted to make sure she sounded great at college auditions. Her friend, who is a phenomenal singer and pianist, cannot dance or act and she ended up dropping MT in her junior year of school. That way, she could focus on what she’s good at. I also believe that someone can be taught to read music at a “late” age but that would be very difficult for a dancer. </p>

<p>Yes, BFA programs are just as busy if not more so than high school. The kids do give up either a social life or a work life. It’s also very hard to have a job and be in a BFA program. Lots of kids have to give up their work study because of the BFA- I know that was true for both of my kids. My daughter teched a show and performed in a show last semester. She took classes all day and then went to rehearsals from 6 to midnight. She wasn’t allowed to do any homework in these rehearsals so she ended up staying up late and got it done. That was just for straight acting- not MT. Oh, and I forgot to mention, when my daughter was in elementary school, she was a competitive gymnast and spent hours upon hours in the gym and she took a lot more outside dance classes- 3 days a week and she had to go to Hebrew school! I know, it’s exhausting just typing all of this. I suppose she could have played an instrument during those years but she chose to be a gymnast and later an all-star cheerleader. Those were very time consuming but it also gave her a chance to be comfortable performing in front of thousands of people. To this day, she is not nervous at all being on stage.</p>

111

<p>EmsDad, your D is doing all the right things it seems to me. She is lucky to go to a performing arts high school where a lot of the training is at school (but not all). We don’t have performing arts high schools here. Our public school puts on a play and a musical and its music program is well regarded but there is no drama/acting type classes. </p>

<p>Your D’s objectives with piano make great sense. That was not quite what it was like for my daughter. Both my daughters started piano at age 7 and then a second instrument as well (my MT D played flute for years, but then switched to guitar, and my other D also studied clarinet). None of it was with any college major or career in mind. It was just one of their many interests/activities. I’m just commenting that in retrospect, my MT daughter’s piano skills have come in very handy in her professional career. She never took piano with a career in mind though. But now so much of her work is centered on piano (she owns two pianos at her apartment) and she is on it every day. Just last night, she performed a solo singer/songwriter concert of original songs accompanying herself on piano at a venue in NYC and at the moment is coaching Pace BFA MT students on vocal performance, which also requires her to play piano. This week, she is also working on musicals she has been commissioned to write. So, who knew back when the kids took piano that she’d be using so much in her paid professional career, on top of her work as a MT performer, which she also does? So, I do recommend this skill to others in this field. It just never was “planned” out quite like your D is doing and it just turned out well. I mean that the piano aspect was not part of some career plan, but yes, my D has wanted to go into MT her entire life!</p>

<p>supportive, your kids were just as busy as mine! My kid did not have a performing arts high school though and so we had to get so much of it outside the school. And yes, my kids often got home at 9 PM regularly and sometimes later (if rehearsing a show outside our area). Like your theater kids, my MT daughter also did sports! She was VERY involved in sports through age 13…she was in soccer, ski racing, and figure skating (and at one time, also horseback riding) on top of dance, piano, flute, band, jazz band, chorus, voice lessons, theater productions. But the commitment to each activity started to become greater and so she gave up her sports to solely focus on performing arts around age 13. My other daughter continued with the three varsity sports, band, jazz band, two instruments and dance, but had to give up being in musical theater productions (which she had done through age 14). Yes, it was hard to have a social life in high school, though my MT kid did have a boyfriend throughout high school and lots of friends and then in college and post college, has had a boyfriend and lots of friends, but not a lot of free time. But all of her friends now are also in the performing arts. She does juggle trying to support many of their performances, as they do hers.</p>

112

<p>My daughter has a freakish ear for listening to a piece once and being able to reproduce it? Wouldn’t that somewhat offset a lack of sight reading skills? She’s pursuing an Acting BFA in college but its important piece of this process to find a school in which she can also continue to develop her MT training. I can’t quite see where sight reading will ever be a skll she’ll have a chance to develop however.</p>

113

<p>My daughter had to spend a lot of time outside of school for additional classes. She gave up competing in gymnastics and cheerleading but still took a weekly tumbling class to keep up her skills ($60/month). She still takes tumbling classes as a college freshman. She just loves it! Their school did not have varsity sports but even if they did- there was no time! Like I said- something’s gotta give!</p>

114

<p>ActingDad, your D is no doubt very talented, and her ear will serve her well. However, you do ask “I can’t quite see where sight reading will eer be a skill she’ll have a chance to develop…” She may well develop it in college. It <em>is</em> a skill that is used on auditions from time to time. Not that it’s a requirement. But my S has had several calbacks in which the panel gives him additional music then and there and he has maybe 10 minutes to learn it and then do the callback. If you have a good ear you might get someone else to play the melody for you, but sight reading abilities do help. They’re not mandatory, just one more skill it’s good to have. But it does sound like with her abilities. she’ll be fine :-)</p>

115

<p>ActingDad, in post #112, you mention if your D has an ear to learn a piece after hearing it once and you asked if that could compensate for lack of sight reading skills…and I am not sure you saw my post #101…but yes, your D’s skill will be very useful…However, there are callbacks where she will be given music that she will have never heard before and it may be a new musical and so she will have no opportunity to hear it played or sung once and will have to learn and prepare it. That is an instance where sight reading comes in handy. My D has had many auditions of this type. For example, she was just cast in NYC in a new musical and the many callbacks involved preparing music from this show.</p>

116

<p>Actingdad - there is ear training and sight singing software available (such as Auralia) to help learn this in spare time (like MT and Acting kids have spare time)…</p>

117

<p>Sight reading is a more important skill than many of you realize. Here’s an example – Kristin Chenoweth participated in workshops for “Wicked” for literally years while the show was evolving. There wasn’t a CD for her to listen to, and you can bet she had to be able to read music! Which she could, having received a rigorous operatic training. If she had lacked the sightreading skill, someone else would probably have premiered the role of Galinda on Broadway.</p>

<p>Also, you never know where your career will take you and what skills will be needed. Someone here mentioned a pianist getting paid as a MT accompanist – a great foot in the door and a survival job all in one. My son is very skilled with music publishing software and is able to create his own musical arrangements, and make his own backing tracks for auditions. He’s hoping to do this for pay too. Then there’s teaching – so many performers teach from time to time – and keyboard skills are very helpful there.</p>

118

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<p>My D found herself in an audition with others who had poor sight reading skills and ended up teaching them the song that was given to them for on the spot callbacks. She plays the piano well enough to pick through a new song so she was able to sit down and play and sing for the others to learn the song. This was a low key audition so she had no problem doing it but had these people not been in the room with someone who was willing to help, they had no way of learning the piece on their own.</p>

119

<p>I think this sudden focus on sightreading may be causing anxiety in some parents. Sight-singing and sightreading on piano are two different skills to master. Of course these are great skills for any performer, and more crucial for those who are going into MT as singers-who-act (Chenoweth was trained as an opera singer before she went into MT and acting.) But I don’t think that not being able to sightread at the piano, or even to sight-sing is going to keep your kid from gaining admission to an MT program. Even music conservatories don’t test sightreading when auditioning applicants.</p>

120

<p>glassharmonica…totally agree that it is not necessary to be able to sight read music to gain admission to a MT program!! It is a skill that is very useful in terms of one’s career in MT and to that end, it can be learned in a BFA program. It never hurts to know how to do it even earlier than college but it will be part of most BFA programs as most require music theory and so on.</p>