<p>From this and some of the other boards, I get a feeling that admissions at many of the elite colleges is a virtual crapshoot, ie sometimes candidates who seem much stronger on paper don't get in, while weaker ones do get in. </p>
<p>Does anybody else feel this way also? </p>
<p>As for me personally, I was waitlisted at Harvard, but outright rejected at Washington U...how does this happen??? </p>
<p>I was also accepted to Cornell (CAS), Brown, NYU (CAS)--these 3 are my top choices right now (I was accepted to couple safeties like BU and UMich as well). Yet somehow, I was waitlisted at Tufts, not that I would have ever went since I got into to the other ones don't think too much of Tufts, but its very strange.</p>
<p>I do understand this happens every year, I've seen the outcomes at my high school, but this year it seems like a lottery much more so than other years.</p>
<p>They just don't have enough room for all the qualified students. Remember, the "official" acceptance rates reported in U.S. News combines early and regular decisions, and a higher percentage is admitted in the early round, so the regular acceptance rates are lower than 9-10%. I think Yale's was around 7ish, and Harvard's was probably even lower.</p>
<p>A Yale admissions officer said that they could throw out all the accepted students and take kids only from the waitlist, and no one would be able to tell the difference between the two classes. I assume that pretty much goes for all the top schools. So yes, ultimately it is a crapshoot. You never know what adcoms are looking for or how they differentiate between thousands of students with exemplary qualifications.</p>
<p>"I get a feeling that admissions at many of the elite colleges is a virtual crapshoot, ie sometimes candidates who seem much stronger on paper don't get in, while weaker ones do get in. "</p>
<p>It's not a crapshoot. The problem is that it's very difficult for outsiders to evaluate candidates and figure out the odds. That's because when it comes to a college like H, the adcoms are not choosing a class by automatically picking the students with the highest stats, which is what many colleges, including many top public universities do.</p>
<p>Because virtually all students who apply to H have exceptionally strong stats, H has the luxury of picking the students who best will help create a well rounded class -- a class representing a variety interests, regions, ethnicities, countries, religions, socioeconomic status, etc.</p>
<p>In addition, many students that post stats and info that looks marvelous to many folks on CC actually have profiles that seem ordinary at H. H does not want to fill up its classes with 1580 SAT-scoring valedictorian aspiring doctor NM scholars who have done nothing but hit the books and play violin at a level that led to some local music awards. Such applicants are very ordinary in the Harvard pool.</p>
<p>What is not ordinary in the Harvard pool are students who have truly demonstrated intellectual passion plus have stats of 1450 or higher, leadership in one or two ECs in which they really have accomplished something, not just used it as resume dressing, and have written an essay that is interesting and not cliched. If such a student comes from a place like Boston or NYC, which send thousands of excellent applications to H, the student still may not stand out enough.</p>
<p>They may get bumped by students who have overcome major challenges while achieving at high levels, have made major national or international achievements, have celebrity or millionaire parents or are legacies.</p>
<p>You may have gotten rejected at Wash U if you didn't visit or basically blew off their application because you assumed that a student like you with outstanding stats would be a shoo-in.</p>
<p>I had high stats, had leadership in two ECs in which I really accomplished something, wrote an interesting essay, had overcome studying in a different language/culture/learning environment, and had represented my country in an international olympiad. I was still rejected. Even students like me are a dime a dozen at schools like Harvard.</p>
<p>Yeah, maybe. But I don't want to use the fact that I'm an ORM as an excuse. There are just people who are more qualified than me, even if the difference is minimal.</p>
<p>I am not an expert on international admissions as I am not in a position to interview them. However, I'd bet that it's harder for most internationals to get into Harvard than it is for US students.</p>
<p>No matter how extremely well qualified international candidates are, I truly doubt that, for instance, Harvard would select a class that would be majority international. After all, Harvard is an American college. </p>
<p>I also think that Harvard would want a diverse group of internationals, so this would make admissions particularly hard for internationals coming from countries where a lot of students apply.</p>
<p>The adcoms might have a different criteria and to them things might be clear, but for all we, the applicant know, it's a crapshot at least 60% of the time.</p>
<p>Nothing happens without a reason. If admissions is really a crapshoot, i.e. purely random, then why did you study in high school at all? I admit, though, that there are instances where it seems that there was no particular reason for an applicant to be rejected.</p>
<p>It's a crapshoot for anyone but the adcoms after a certain point because we don't know for sure what they're looking for. I'm pretty sure that's what they meant.</p>
<p>"In addition, many students that post stats and info that looks marvelous to many folks on CC actually have profiles that seem ordinary at H. H does not want to fill up its classes with 1580 SAT-scoring valedictorian aspiring doctor NM scholars who have done nothing but hit the books and play violin at a level that led to some local music awards. Such applicants are very ordinary in the Harvard pool.</p>
<p>What is not ordinary in the Harvard pool are students who have truly demonstrated intellectual passion plus have stats of 1450 or higher, leadership in one or two ECs in which they really have accomplished something, not just used it as resume dressing, and have written an essay that is interesting and not cliched. If such a student comes from a place like Boston or NYC, which send thousands of excellent applications to H, the student still may not stand out enough."</p>
<p>Isn't that a crapshoot though? Say you have two equally qualified candidates, A and B. A plays the Trombone and B plays the oboe-now if the Harvard band is in need of an oboe player(i know, its cliche), they'll select candidate B. Candidate A got rejected/waitlisted not because he didnt stand out amongst the applicants, but because Harvard simply didn't need him/her. That seems awfully random to me(although, like you said, Harvard has the luxury of doing that. </p>
<p>Sorry if I sound too critical Northstarmom-I appreciate all the advice you've given us on college admissions, I was just a little confused by the last post.</p>
<p>yeah, the trombone/oboe analogy may be a bit exaggerated but Keynes1105 does have a point
but it still wouldn't be 100% arbitrary, like pulling names from a hat..
it just means that they only look at academics up to a certain point, then they look at non-academic factors, which tend to be very subjective</p>
<p>You really need to change your focus on college admissions slightly to really undersand it. Think of it as a large company that has just started and there are many positions to be filled in order for the company to really function well. If you need say 100 people to fill all the positions, you would review 1000 resumes to fill them. Eventually everyone from the janitor up to management gets slotted. You would not hire 90 middle managers even though they are more qualified than say the janitor. If you look at Ivy admissions in this way, it makes perfect sense. We just want to believe that you get in on academic merit alone. Unfortunately, that is not how they view the process. They have many quotas to fill and have many qualified persons to fill them. We have to accept the fact that a 1200 SAT football player brings value to the process as much as the 1600 Intel Winner. They have equal value in the eyes of the corporation and are therefore granted admission.</p>