"Personally, I don’t even think this is a much of a change from the norm - prep schools have always existed solely to get people into elite colleges (hence the “preparatory” name) and the strengthening of a historic symbiotic relationship b/c UChicago wants to use them as a piggy bank is barely a change, slightly changing demographics aside. "
wait a minute, @HydeSnark - if there is "barely a change" then how effective will ED even be at skewing the College towards wealth? Want to make sure I don't misunderstand you yet again :wink: so will withhold further comment/questions until you can respond.
“It’s far more meaningful that the number of people not on financial aid consistently rose as the college size increased than that the number of people on financial aid fluctuated up and down from year to year. One is a trend, the other is noise.”
@HydeSnark: How does the existence of Merit factor in? We can't assume that those not on financial aid are 100% full pay. Beginning in 2017/18, there were probably 450 - 550 kids per year who enrolled non-binding. That's a little less than 10% of the school. If all of them were given some merit (not at all an unreasonable assumption), then that pushes the number of students on some form of tuition assistance to over 50%.
This thread is getting boring. I hope someone closes it soon. Mountains out of a 2% molehill, with people absolutely convinced of the virtue or vice that is social class diversity, based on sparse, anecdotal, hypothetical or whatever magical information is at hand.
You may well ask. Regarding the thread itself, it’s pretty standard for the UChicago forum, where the ratio of length of threads to numbers of participants in them is usually pretty high. The propensity of UChicago-connected CC users to debate each other about the school is remarkable.
I think the reason UChicago attracts some negative reactions here is the combination of (i) UChicago being the most aggressive elite in the use of admissions gamesmanship and (ii) the chip-on-the-shoulder boosterism of some members of the UChicago fan club on CC, tbh.
Everyone ought to be able to acknowledge that UChicago is a top-tier school. Equally, it should be clear that every day UChicago becomes more like the other top-tier schools it aspires to be grouped with, and less like the old UChicago, for good and ill.
^ Don’t hold your breath waiting for all those UChicago parents to “get with the program”, @DeepBlue86. I think a good number of them happen to agree with one keynote speaker the other day who, btw, has a major chip-on-the-shoulder - among other great attributes. She described the university quite well in a single word: Restless. Aspiring just to be grouped with “the other top-tier schools” is actually NOT the long-term plan LOL. And nothing can be further from the plan than to return to the “old UChicago.”
@DeepBlue86 , like many others who view with negativity these discussions, doesn’t quite get that the long and searching consideration of all matters is bred in the bone at the University of Chicago. This just happens to be a forum where we talk about colleges. This intensity and granularity is not apparently the done thing anywhere else. Therefore outsiders don’t know what to make of it, are put off by it and fly to reductive explanations - gamesmanship and boosterism - I’m surprised not to hear mention of insecurity. The magnitude and detail of it all is boring to them. The outbreaks of passion provoke incomprehension. How could there could be endless soul-searching and analysis of something as apparently well-settled, simple and universal as the character of the student body at an American university?
Chip-on-the-shoulder? Negative reactions? That sounds right. The University of Chicago has always been a school for protracted and uncomfortable discussions. That is something you either love or hate. It ought to be part of the reason you choose this university over others. Prospective students, take note.
Sorry if this has been covered, but from what I see here in the NYC area, many of the top students from the top schools apply SCEA (HYP and Stanford) and when they get deferred/denied, they apply EDII to U of Chicago. It’s a solid backup and affords much relief to many families.
@ThinkOn “Sorry if this has been covered…” What has been covered is that UChicago is increasingly competitive with the Ivy League. Cross-admits are more often coming the way of UChicago. As you know, its admit percentage is lower and test scores higher than the Ivies. Your NYC families should be relieved that a select group of their offspring will get a better education than at H or Y.
^^ @ThinkOn@groweg - this was my son’s strategy (we don’t live in NYC) and we felt the same relief. The ED2 admit rate was probably around 8% this year (maybe as low as 7%) so it’s still a reach. But for a super bright unhooked kid who is a great fit, ED2 is a wonderful option that allows for TWO shots at a top five. Strongly suspect the legendary HYP-reject too depressed to come out of his dorm room and mingle with his fellow classmates because he ended up at University of Chicago no longer exists, although I do hope the myth lingers on because it’s a lighthearted manifestation of that spirit of restlessness and chip-on-shoulder insecurity that defines the university.
@JBStillFlying - can you expand on who this speaker was, and the “restless” quality she described? What did this speaker talk about? Sounds interesting.
Yes - The speaker was Trustee Mary Louise Gorno. She was describing the personality of the university to the prospies and their families on Thurs. and made that brief comment. Didn’t dwell on it nor was it the focal point of her address. It was a viewpoint based on her experience as a grad student once upon a time and many years as a trustee. What came across in her broad address (she was providing a sales-talk not a lecture) was that UChicago wasn’t going to be happy sitting on its many Nobels or the distinctive achievements of its graduates. It wasn’t about collecting those accolades. It was about solving the next puzzle, mystery or challenge. It reminded me of their motto “Crescat Scientia, Vita Excolatur” althought that wasn’t mentioned.
Another takeaway was that I didn’t quite realize how involved some of these trustees are. Gorno - in addition to serving as a trustee for about 15 years (and currently as vice-chair), is also Chair of the Smart Museum. Nondorf was joking in his introduction that it’s sorta weird to go on and on about your trustees (because who at other colleges actually knows who the trustees are?), but at UChicago the trustees are a tad different because they take an active interest in the students. From an admissions standpoint at least he’s correct, given these trustee receptions! But there is also this sense that some of the trustees are giving back to the university in a major way, although this fact wasn’t directly touched upon during the Overnight. For instance, Trott was mentored by Jeff Metcalf himself and in gratitude started the Metcalf Internship Program, naming it after his mentor. Gorno was given generous financial assistance to attend UChicago and, while I don’t know what work she does behind the scenes on the need-based side, her intense desire to make the education affordable to all who attend was very obvious in her address. Perhaps university trustees always take an active interest in the undergrads. One would hope so. Hadn’t thought much about the trustees before, and others on CC are far more attuned to their presence at the university. To me anyway this insight was quite interesting.
My son liked Mary Louise Gorno right away when she used a quote from the play Hamilton, ‘I want to be in the room where it happens’ in one of her speeches during last year’s admitted student days. Son equates to going to UChicago as ‘being in the room where it happens’ so her use of that quote was perfect and really synched with him.
Admitted Student reception update:
35,000, <6% acceptance. Nothing new. But what was interesting is that many students there were ED2 admits. Guess their first choice…
ED1 UChicago, deferred, then accepted. I was blissfully surprised.
Was wondering how many of those ED1’s were accepted ED2. On CC most of the posters from that group were ultimately rejected (which is surprising to me, given that they were deferred ED1. The ED2 group had to be pretty strong!).
@uocparent - she used the same quote this year. Thanks for the reminder. Another good summary of UChicago’s particular distinction (or “brand” I guess is another term) that would resonate. I think kids choose UChicago not because it makes them distinctive but because it will give them the critical tools for doing distinctive things later on.
“Is there actual cross admit data or is it just hearsay? I’m not saying I don’t believe its true, but I’m just curious if there is any real data.”
Does “speak it into existence” count as data? I haven’t been following this thread closely but I seem to recall someone mentioning “top secret” sources that can never be revealed!
I don't read @PepperJo 's comment above as suggesting that anyone was deferred ED1 and accepted ED2, which I believe is against the rules. I understood it to mean she (or her kid) was deferred ED1 and accepted RD, but met lots of ED2 kids/families at an admitted student event. Lots of those kids had previously applied SCEA somewhere and had been deferred.
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I think the reason UChicago attracts some negative reactions here is the combination of (i) UChicago being the most aggressive elite in the use of admissions gamesmanship and (ii) the chip-on-the-shoulder boosterism of some members of the UChicago fan club on CC, tbh.
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Actually, one of the most interesting aspects of this particular thread is the almost complete absence of negative reactions to UChicago. I have probably been one of the people on this thread most questioning the value of what Chicago is doing, and any fair assessment of my overall position would have to group me with the chip-on-the-shoulder boosters. Other “negativity” has been provided by current students who appear to be perfectly happy with their experience at Chicago but are somewhat cynical about the expanding ED programs. The amount of fundamental disagreement on this thread has been minimal.
I'm sorry I said MIT had never given out half of its admissions EA without looking at this year's numbers; this year MIT gave out just about exactly half of its total admissions to EA applicants. That's actually new; it didn't happen in past years (although the difference wasn't as great as I implied -- they were usually around 45%). The dynamics are a little different at MIT, too, because traditionally about half of its applications are EA, and the EA and RD admission rates are usually about the same (without taking into account the presence of deferred EA applicants).
