Admitted as a biomedical engineering major

Colleges and Universities A-Z Marquette University
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<p>As Marquette is our top choice, I'd like to get some input from any biomedical engineering majors out there. Is there a limited enrollment for biomedical engineering majors? Does one have to be admitted as an engineering major first, then qualify to become a bme? Also, if one is not admitted into engineering, but does gain admittance into arts and sciences, can one transfer over into engineering, and even bme, once a year is completed at the university with successful results, ie, good GPA, completion of Calculus, science courses, other courses that can be applied to an engineering degree?</p>

<p>Thanks for any input, guys.</p>

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<p>For biomedical engineering there is no pre engineering you go into biomedical engineering as a freshman. The first year is math and science classes, and one specific “intro to biomedical engineering” course. You can transfer into the program at any point.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much! So if son gets accepted into Marquette, he will start right out as a BME major? That sounds great. I imagine if he wants to switch to another major, or even add another major, that would be doable as well. Of course, he may have to add courses to catch up, but it would be great to see if he likes BME right off the bat. Thanks so much for the reply!</p>

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<p>What does your son ultimately want to do after graduating? If he might be interested in med school, biomedical engineering could be a fit. However, if he is set on being engineering, I recommend NOT doing biomedical engineering. Unfortunately, biomedical engineering is a relatively new field and very broad for the undergraduate level, meaning that engineering firms shy away from undergraduate biomedical degrees. I am not saying they are unemployable, but for a career in engineering it is much better to get one of the traditional fields like EE, Mech, or Computer. They can (and are) employed in the biomedical industry.</p>

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<p>I guess I should also answer your other questions.</p>

<p>If your son is biomed major, it is possible to switch out. Unfortunately by that time, your son will probably have taken the biology sequence so those will be “wasted” classes and in its place he’ll have to take what the other engieers took instead (generally, computer classes). He’ll have more work cut out for him, but its not impossible and I know people who have both switched in and switched out of biomed after freshman year.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Ring, for your responses.</p>

<p>Son DOES NOT want to go to med school. He wants to become a biomedical engineer, designing devices that will help the disabled. He has a strong sense of service, and he has a love of biology. Therefore, if he does switch out of BME, those bio courses will not be “wasted”. I’ve always tried to instill in him that no knowledge is ever wasted.</p>

<p>We have been warned many times on these forums about the “uselessness” of a bme degree, probably too harsh a word, and there are certainly many more options than Marquette if son takes that path, definitely less expensive ones, but it is appealing to start off as a bme major as a freshman to see if that’s really what he wants to do. </p>

<p>This is still a “work in progress” and research and applications are still ongoing. One thing that we have strongly suggested to son is that he pick a school that has many other options for majors should he change his mind, but does have a good bme program, with early exposure to the field, so that he can find out early on if it is something he would be comfortable doing. </p>

<p>Thank you again for your comments. It is good to get some input from people on, as you said, this relatively new field.</p>

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<p>+1, Montegut, agree with you 100%. Ring, appreciate your comment also.</p>

<p>I think it’s important to note that while there may be some sense in industry that BME is a jack-of-all-trades degree, it is also the fastest growing engineering program BY FAR in colleges and biomedicine in industry is HUGELY GROWING. Given these two facts, it’s difficult to imagine a BME graduate not finding decent employment.</p>

<p>I think the key with BME is to aggressively co-op, intern and do on-campus research assistance to develop a meaningful resume prior to graduation. It’s impossible for me to imagine that a Marquette BME whose done 4 co-op rotations would not field at least two offers at 55k or better, although I’m glad to hear from anyone who has evidence to the contrary.</p>

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<p>Its true that your son should major in something he likes. That is the best way to get through something like engineering is to be doing what you like.</p>

<p>I’m just saying, from experience as a BME, if I could do it over again I would be a traditional engineering major. Marquette BME is EXCELLENT, one of the best in the country IMHO, but other university BME programs are not as “engineering” focused and more biology focused which thus dilutes the credibility of a bio-med engineering degree for everybody.</p>

<p>Currently, engineering employment is difficult for every recently graduated engineering major. For biomed majors, it is an incredibly tough situation. The biomed industry is a hot field (or it was anyway, before this recession). I know that one major ‘shall be nameless’ company announced they will no longer be hiring biomedical engineers because they feel they are not prepared for industry. This is definitely not true of Marquette’s program, but like I said, the less technical focus of other schools definitely hurts the BME undergrad field. BME is much better at a master’s level. </p>

<p>As a Mech, Comp, or EE you’ll be taking mostly the same classes as a Bio-M, Bio-C, and Bio-E at Marquette, which is why I argue…if 80% of your classes are the same, you might as well get a more employable major that doesn’t pigeon hole you in one industry that might not like you anyway.</p>

<p>I also just want to add I love the Biomed department, it is incredible. I just feel like people need to be corrected with the misconception that even though healthcare is a hot field, that doesn’t mean BME is going to open any more doors than traditional engineering majors (and I’m going to argue even less)</p>

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<p>I also don’t want to dissuade anybody from MU BME, like I said, great program. Its just important to be very very careful without expectations that jobs will be as easy to come by as it is other majors.</p>

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<p>I appreciate your articulate argument, Ringout. I too am a believer in choosing paths that leave the most possible options open. I have thought a lot about alternate engr programs, but really, and in the case of my son particularly, if one feels wired for something in health care, like BME, it’s not so simple to just choose ME or ChE as those really have vastly different focus and application in the field. My son is intensely interested in biology, so for him to go ME would make no sense to me.</p>

<p>But I can’t dismiss what you and others are saying about the employability of BMEs, which is why I advocate strongly for work experience while still in school. If MU co-ops are getting BME jobs, and I have to assume they are, then those employers are doing so because they want BME grads. </p>

<p>And one thing that I think we all need to remember about the job market is that it’s a highly individual situation, and the generalities do not change the fact that YOUR job or my son’s comes down to YOU and HIM and one decent employer saying,hey, I’ve got a job for you. Your specific degree is just one element of this fairly complex transaction, right? I think someone studying basketweaving can snag a job out of school if they’ve done all the prep work while in school, gaining experience, maintaining good grades etc. I think what this means to BMEs is, don’t just go through 4 years of school on autopilot and assume the recruiters will line up for you. Put together all the pieces and your employability should be a sure thing. Thanks again for your input.</p>

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<p>I’m going to chime in more on this when I have more time, but let me touch on Beastman’s point about the importance of work experience as you all are going to college fairs right now.</p>

<p>We had a presentation by a rep from a very reputable institution with an excellent BME program. When asked about coop opportunities, he said their institution focused more on the college “community” and that their university was so well-known, that the employers would be lining up for our children upon graduation, just because they had a degree from this prestigious institution.</p>

<p>Thought y’all would appreciate that comment.</p>

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<p>The single disadvantage of co-oping is that it does disrupt the traditional school year schedule and dynamic.</p>

<p>I have no doubt that most BMEs get jobs upon graduation, be it from a “prestigious” school or otherwise. Most stats I see show placement rates of 90%+ within 6mos.</p>

<p>But the goal is not just to get a job, as I’m sure Montegut agrees. My wife went to Marquette for engineering and did 4 co-op rotations with 3M. I went to Wisconsin for engr and did one summer internship. Who do you suppose had 1) more offers, 2) better offers, 3) a far better sense of what engineering was in the real-world, 4) more confidence and poise in a work environment and 5) a ton more money?</p>

<p>The attitude you refer to is really more of a old-school, liberal arts point of view in which the Educational Environment trumps the crass commercialism of job readiness and placement. It would be great if our economy made this point of view reasonable, but I don’t think it does.</p>

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<p>Don’t know if this is off topic, but I’m getting a little concerned at how many schools stress your ability to get into a good grad school if you attend their university.</p>

<p>While that is something to be proud of, why isn’t anybody promoting the fact that your kid will be able to GET A JOB when they graduate?</p>

<p>Are kids nowadays really expected to go to grad school before entering the working world?</p>

<p>I know this is most likely the case for BME, and we accept that, but what about other engineering fields, like mechanical, electrical, civil, or even comp sci or comp eng? Are these majors expected to go to grad school before they can get a job?</p>

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<p>Right now especially with the economic meltdown, grad and professional schools are seeing increasing numbers of applicants because job opportunities just aren’t there for the majority of grads.</p>

<p>In normal times, even if you are coming out of Cal Tech and MIT, post grad degress are desired or expected. In many cases, the employers are willing to pay for that grad degree for the MIT and Cal Tech grads in order to be able to hire them.</p>

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<p>I imagine that benefit is disappearing, just as pensions and health benefits have gone by the wayside as many companies have had to cut costs.</p>

<p>This does present a dilemma for those looking towards grad school. Do you want to go into debt in undergrad, just to face more debt as a grad student? Or do you want to go to a lesser quality school, where you have no debt, maybe even get to save toward your grad school, but then, what are your chances of getting into grad school, as you’ll be competing with those who have degrees from better quality schools? And even if you do get into grad school, what are your chances of getting a scholarship, or whatever they call it in grad school?</p>

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<p>Well, as one parent to another, I think it’s pretty risky to extrapolate your kid’s education beyond 4 years and through grad school, esp. in something demanding like BME. I would be reluctant to embark on any path which essentially requires grad school, unless the student’s passion for the field of study is beyond question. The path to bartenders’ school is paved with the worn out bodies of would-be med students who burned through 3-4 years of pre-med before they discovered that they either lacked the will, work ethic or brains to gut out the additonal reqt of med school. My own strategy for my kids is: get an undergrad degree that can get you a job, so if you’re post-grad dreams fizzle you can pay the rent.</p>

<p>And as for debt, the prospect of adding grad school debt onto undergrad is terrifying. I read an article in Fortune last fall about the numbers of lawyers and young physicians who cannot, even with 6 figure incomes, handle their 6 figure debt loads. Quite honestly, I don’t know how kids like ours could possible manage Marquette undergrad, with prospects of Ignatius scholarships and maybe a few Magis bucks, and do grad school on top.</p>

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<p>Thank you, once again, Beastman, for adding a dose of reality.</p>

<p>My advice to son is to enroll in a school with a 5 year MS program and/or double major in a marketable major, like computer science or mechanical engineering.</p>

<p>I know too well the scenario of which you speak. After receiving my bachelor’s in biology, I discovered there were no career prospects for an undergrad degree. As I had exhausted all my funds and burned out on the rigor of a science degree, I opted for a low paying teaching job, followed by an even lower paying lab job. </p>

<p>Now, you have to be careful to get a graduate degree in a marketable major, also. I know many people who went beyond their undergrad, pursuing masters, and some even doctorates, and they, too, are also teaching high school. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, there are no guarantees in life, and we do have to teach our kids that you can’t be too proud to flip burgers so you can pay your rent, no matter how many letters you have behind your name.</p>

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<p>Hey, just saw this thread, I would like to chime in. Sorry for the length!</p>

<p>Let me preface- I LOVE MU.</p>

<p>I am currently a sophomore, majoring in Biocomputing and getting a minor in Biophysics. Or at least I plan to. I’ll talk about two things relating to Marquette, and one relating to me:</p>

<p>Economics:
As of right now, I am fortunate enough to have gotten a co-op lined up at the Medical College of Wisconsin. But even with parental support of $10K per year (and covering freshman year totally), I’m thinking of transferring, and dropping the co-op. I got basically nothing in the way of scholarships. No way am I going to stay here and not get any financial aid, with places like Rice (which has a top-10 BME program) only letting students take out $10K in loans per year, at the very maximum! I am almost 100% sure I could transfer (3.86 GPA, good EC’s here @ Marquette, know teachers well for recommendation letters). If you get money to go here, and it is cheaper than better universities, come. Otherwise, there are some great schools giving out lots of aid right now.</p>

<p>BME:
We have a good undergraduate program. I would say top 1/3 of all BME programs. Our relationship with industry is VERY good, that is really one of the strengths with Marquette. But being a better student makes an even bigger difference now in these trying economic times; GE Healthcare now has a 3.5 GPA cutoff for students for their co-op. You won’t just get a co-op because you go to Marquette.</p>

<p>BME is NOT a good degree to get if you want a good technical BME job; the degree is not nearly specific enough; BME has a huge range of variability in what you do. To be truly hire-able, you need to be specific in a certain field (blood flow dynamics & cardiovascular disease, medical imaging, orthopedics & biomechanics). A BS does not allow for that specificity; you need at LEAST a MS.</p>

<p>There is definitely room for advancement with a BS, though, especially into management.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if you want to be a technical sales-person, a BS in BME is a great degree.</p>

<p>My educational path:
You may see my major & minor and think W<em>T</em>F? Why all that extra pain? Well, right now I am dead-set on getting into medical imaging. I will be going to graduate school for sure. I thought I could just get away with a major in biocomputing for image analysis, but it’s hard to get a job just “programming” without knowing more of the workings behind the physics of imaging machinery.</p>

<p>Plus, the biophysics minor is a hidden academic gem at Marquette. We are required to do research, and the Medical College of Wisconsin is the main place that students go to work with researchers. Oh, and it fits perfectly into my required biomedical engineering electives, and keeps open my suicidal dreams of an MD/PhD</p>

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<p>First off, thank you, kickback, for joining this forum.</p>

<p>You give great advice, especially with the biocomputing major. I thought this would be a good major for son because of his talent with computers, and it would be a great lead into a career in medical imaging. Thank you for the reality check and the pointer about the biophysics minor. We’ll look into that. What department is the biophysics minor in: engineering or arts and sciences?</p>

<p>Our local college, Tulane, has biomedical engineering and engineering physics as majors. I’m wondering if a double major in those two might be a good fit.</p>

<p>As for graduate work, first off, kudos to you for dreaming big, with that MD/PHD aspiration. A nearby college, University of Alabama at Birmingham, has a very good program in that, and they also have biomedical engineering. You may want to look into it as you progress further. And it is not too pricey, either.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for the info about GE and the GPA requirements. I was thinking, this coop stuff is too good to be true, has to be a catch. Well, there it is. Not everybody gets one. Do you know if internships have the same GPA requirement/competitiveness? I’m assuming internships are unpaid, but give you valuable experience that aid in employment and graduate school placement.</p>

<p>The jury is out on cooping now, which was a big attraction at Marquette for us, as it adds a year of tuition onto a program that takes at least five years if you’re going for a masters. And as we all know, tuition goes up every year, no matter what the school, and unless Marquette has some kind of tuition guarantee, it’s a bit risky, even with financial aid, to sign yourself up for not just four or five, but possibly six years of private school tuition.</p>

<p>As a parent of a senior, I have to return the favor to you and give you a piece of advice about transferring to a school that offers a “better deal” financially. Beware of that spiel about “we meet 100 percent of need, and it’s all grants, no loans.” Or in the case you mentioned, 10K of loans. Their idea and your idea of need are often very different. What sounds too good to be true often is too good to be true. So, just remember, if you do decide to transfer, don’t burn any bridges. What you think you might get might not come to fruition, and you might find your best option to be to just stick it out where you are.</p>

<p>Again, thanks so much for your posts. We are so happy to hear from a “real live BME major”. Please keep us updated on your classes, coop, logistics of coop and school. </p>

<p>We wish you much luck, and congrats on your success as a BME major.</p>

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<p>On the work front:</p>

<p>If you have a 3.5 GPA as a junior, you have the option to go the BS/MS for only 1 extra year, but I don’t know too much about this program.</p>

<p>Many summer internships are paid, but not as much as a co-op. Some internships can also turn into co-op. Going back to GE Healthcare, you don’t start off as a co-op, but an intern. If you get a good performance review, you get invited back.</p>

<p>I have heard great things about UAB’s MD/PhD program; their new director is really trying to put them on the map by getting some prestigious researchers. And the good MD/PhD’s are mostly free (federally funded 100% tuition + living stipend)</p>

<p>I will probably not be back on for some time… 4 tests, a lab report, and a reflection paper due this week. :'(</p>