Calculus is commonly required for those majoring in economics, business, and biology, and may be helpful in other social science majors if one wants to take more advanced statistics courses. Philosophy majors are likely to benefit from additional practice in logical thinking that, for high school students, is most likely to be found in math courses.
Taking math at least through precalculus in high school keeps the student’s options more open in college.
It is better for most college-prep students to take math through precalculus at least (normal math track high school students reach precalculus in 12th grade). Only those who know for certain that they will not need precalculus or calculus for their majors or general education requirements would be ok getting off the main math track after algebra 2.
Timing for the child is the most important thing and making sure her foundations are solid. Too much pushing when they are not ready leads to low self-esteem and depression later on. She need to be where she needs to be right now. There is nothing wrong with her. Just make sure she get all her concepts down.
My DD and about five of her classmates struggled in an advanced math in 7th grade with a poor teacher. They were quickly moved down a level and finished the year well with a different teacher. DD has since taken geometry and physics for summer advancement and will be in calculus her senior. She thinks math is easy now but also struggled and stressed out with the timed multiplication tables quizzes in fourth grade. Timing and foundation is everything.
“As a point…our kid WAS recommended for accelerated math for 8th grade. We graciously declined the offer. We were the very first parents to ever decline accelerated anything at the school…and they were shocked.”
This whole math acceleration in middle school (and in some cases 5th grade) was because parents complained that their kids were falling behind if they couldn’t take algebra/geometry in 8th or 9th grade. So a parent that declined would have definitely shocked the school admins.
“There is really no need to take calculus or even precalculus unless your child wants to major in math, engineering, CS etc. And it is kind of early to be worrying about high school classes. I mean, he can always take a summer course and skip ahead.”
I agree that it’s too early to worry about math placement, but for highly selective schools regardless of major, you need to have pre-calculus at a minimum, and imo, Calculus, of course if the student is comfortable taking APs.
My youngest is going into 8th grade. Her sister went to the same school 4 years ago and is now entering 12th grade. The way the school used to do it was the 6-8th grade curriculum covered whatever math was needed to finish algerbra 1 I 8th grade. Then the kids who did well enough started 9th grade in geometry cp or honors and some who did not do as well did algebra 1 cp or honors in 9th grade. My oldest is now in Calculus for 12th grade.
Fast forward a few years at the same school. They have changed it so all the kids now do whatever traditional 8th grade math is (prealgebra I think). Since dd goes to the smallest school in the city and only has 9 kids who they feel are eligible for advanced math it isn’t enough to justify a math class for just 9 kids out of 40. In addition come 9th grade they have switched to integrated math 1, 2, and 3 starting this fall and they will not have integrated math 1 on the honors level.
At first I was at least very disappointed that my youngest will not have the same opportunity that oldest daughter had because I think she is just as capable in math. Then I decided that maybe it would be nice to have an easier math to start high school and if my daughter seemed capable could always do dual enrollment math iher senior year to complete precalculus and calculus but if she ended with precalculus so be it. If it was simply my child wasn’t chosen for the advanced math class due to her teacher not feeling she was able to do the advanced math I would have easily accepted that.
Fast forward to the end of 7th grade and my daughter’s math teacher who is also the 8th grade math teacher did not think it was right that 4 out of 5 schools offer advanced math. She offered to do an advanced math afterschool program of sorts for the 9 kids. I’m not fully sure how it will work yet since school hasn’t started. I think they will stay after once a week in 8th grade and work on algebra 1 level math (and hopefully some geometry due to the switch to integrated math). During regular 8th grade math class they will do some of the same work and at times work more independently. Best case dd will do well and start high school in integrated math 2 honors worse case she starts in integrated math 1 cp. I will let dd try it since she wants to and I think she is capable. If it doen’t seem like it is working she can always just do regular 8th grade math.
The other option the math teacher offered which I don’t feel at this point is good for my daughter (1 kid picked this path) was to pay $225 to take integrated math 1 over the summer at the high school for credit providing you get an A in the class which is 80 hours over 4 weeks with lots of homework, tests, etc rather than a typical school year of math. Then somehow in 8th grade they can learn integratd math 2 and start high school in integrated math 3 honors. DD’s path will allow her to take integrated math 2 honors next summer for credit if she gets an A. I’m not deciding on that at this point but doubt we will go that route.
@bjkmom another worry I have is that her middle school teachers have let them use notes for every test, which I find ridiculous. How can they test your knowledge if all the formulas and examples are in front of you? My kid better not crash and burn because of her former teachers. I should probably have more faith in my kid, but I stink at math and just assume this has all been a fluke, LOL.
For starters, math ability isn’t genetic my mom always jokes that she once got. 3 in math and I got an A. In Calc I.
I agree – letting them use notes all the time makes no sense to me. So work around it. Quiz your daughter using flash cards ( how incredibly old school, Right?) you can even use one of the flash card apps/sites-- I think Quizlet is one.
But so many parents push and push until the kid starts to push back. There’s nothing wrong with not being advanced. Being one of the top kids in a non-advanced class may give your daughter the chance to shine, to develop her leadership skills, to become confident in her abilities.
At our school, kids are tracked for accelerated math at the end of fifth grade. Neither of my kids were put into accelerated math. With my eldest, I didn’t know until it was too late that we could have asked for her to be moved up, provided she had the grades. (She did, her grades were in the high 90s.) This ended up causing problems in high school, because she had to petition to be allowed to take certain classes. It worked out fine in the end, but was a pain sometimes.
For my son, we were wiser. We waited for him to complete sixth grade to see if he could perform at a high level and cope with the more rigorous workload of middle school. He did, so we requested he be moved up to the accelerated class for the following year. It meant he skipped a year of math to be on the same level as the kids in the accelerated class. He had a special packet of math to do over the summer to bring him up to speed, and he never looked back.
I suggest you see how your child handles 6th grade math. If she gets grades in the high 90s, then you can discuss with the school about moving her up to the accelerated class.
My Chemistry Professor let us used our notes for an Organic Chemistry test and students still had a failing grade. Some passed but because it was an open note book. The test was hard and tricky. @3js3ks
It was fairly common in our child’s private middle school to be somewhat ahead of grade level in math, about 1/3rd of the kids were 2 years ahead, 1/3rd 1 year ahead and 1/3rd at grade level. The 2 year ahead kids finished Calc 1/2 in 11th grade and Calc 3 in 12th grade. We had some real exceptions with kids who were 5 and 6 years ahead ; they ended up taking university math classes in high school and graduate math classes in undergrad. Without exception the kids who were far ahead really loved math. If your daughter does not fall into the ‘loves math’ category, I would not push her. At a certain point she will exceed what you can teach her (unless you are mathematician or actuary) and she will need to have the drive to learn on her own. It’s good to encourage her and make it fun though. You may look at some after school tutoring programs too.
@3jw3ks My differential equations teacher let us use a notecard for his tests because knowing the concepts and how to approach the problems was more important than knowing the specific formulas (of which there were many).
Right. But chemistry and differential equations are light years away from Pythagorean Theorem and area of a rectangle or 7(8)=56.
The types of formulas taught in elementary school are the ones that students will see over and over again. Those times tables are used all the time, in middle and high school and in “the real world.” (And, sorry, but if you need to pull out your phone so you can figure out a 20% tip on a date, you’re going to look like an idiot.)
Part of learning at this level is learning how to memorize, and getting down the basic information you’ll need down the road.
Can I “like” this post a million times?!? The math in ES is ridiculous – I could see my D “thinking” about simple problems because of the way she was taught. All that stuff should have been committed to memory and then move on. We ended up having D calculate stuff for us (tips and totals at restaurants, ETA on trips, etc.) to try and get her basics right through experience.
I am going to throw this out there for the OP if he comes back! My D ended up in early math and finished AP calculus junior year. She di well got a 5 on the test. All great things. But she had to spend a ton of time going back and reviewing algebra and geometry for the SAT. So much time had elapsed she was very rusty. Food for thought, no one wants to spend their insanely busy junior year with extra studying. Hindsight…there was no reason to take all those math courses early.
I’m going to be a bit of a contrarian here and go against some of things said above just on the basis of the limited data set of me and my kids.
First, I agree that it is way more important that your daughter have a very solid math foundation than that she be in an advanced class in middle school. I also agree that some school districts will make it challenging to get all the math you need/want if you don’t get on the right track in middle school and some will make it easy.
But in math as in so much else there is no one size fits all to success.
I have a very hard time memorizing numbers. As a result I was in the lowest level math group/class all through elementary school. Then I was introduced to algebra and suddenly math that was dull, boring, and made me feel stupid was a breeze, fun and interesting. I leapfrogged from the lowest level to the highest. I did eventually memorize my times tables but only through repeated use. No amount of repetitive seat work or flashcards helped me learn them (and believe me teachers and my parents tried) but repeated use in the real world and in higher level math problems did the trick. So I’m all for the newer methods of teaching kids the theories early rather than rote memorization because that is what would have worked for me.
I also want to push back a little bit on the must have calculus. My daughter took Algebra as a 7th grader, Geometry as an 8th grader, Algebra 2 in 9th, Precalc in 10th, AP Stats in 11th and no math at all in 12th. She got into UVA which isn’t the easiest school to get into. But that is one example and YMMV.
OP: if you are still reading, as so many have said it really depends on your child. It sounds like there are three level os math - pre-algebra, then advanced and then basic. If this is the case, how has your child done with math in general? Do you think she should be in advanced? Has she gotten mostly As on her math tests? If you think this test is inaccurate, will the 5th grade teacher support her going into advanced? Or is this subject difficult for her and she is not ready for advanced.
To me, the question is whether most of the 6th graders are in basic, or if that is a more limited section for kids that are not on the typical college-prep math track. If most kids are in basic in 6th grade, I would not be concerned. If your child is not quick at math, this may be the correct track. If, however, this is a kid that did very well in math up to this point and if most kids are in advanced (which is the case in our district), and the only thing keeping her out is a test result, I might at least talk to the teachers about this.
Otherwise, if you think she needs extra help or missed out on some key concepts, perhaps hire a tutor for 6th grade so she can excel in basic math and move up a track the next year. IF SHE WANTS TO! I would absolutely not want to make a kid feel bad about being in the basic math track or make them study harder than typical if they have no interest in or aptitude for math (although I believe math skills can be learned and good math students are made not born),.
Back in the olden days I was in the first group of kids in my district allowed to take algebra as an 8th grader.
Even though I was strong enough in math to get into the class, I always felt a step behind. I developed a bit of a math phobia that, I’m convinced, might not have developed had I not been pushed to take advanced math when in retrospect I wasn’t ready. I dropped Calculus senior year - it was a language I wasn’t ready for.
I guess my point is that we are all ready at different stages. Having a strong basis in math is what’s important. And sixth graders are really little kids still, in my mind.
my mom always jokes that she once got. 3 in math and I got an A. In Calc I.