Can a missed 6th grade Pre-Algebra placement hurt my childs access to Calculus in HS?

<p>My child, though a GATE student missed his placement in 6th grade in Pre-Algebra class. There is a limited number of students and I am being stalled by school teachers from seeing his actual placement grades. I know he is Pre-Algerba material having scored very high levels in his standardized tests in 3, 4, 5 grades. However I am being told he is not done well in placement test andso he can't be admitted to Pre-Algebra and has to stay in Hon.Math. He will be bored out of his mind. Also I am being told that there is no way he can move up in the next level since there is a limit to students in class. My worry is that the school doesn't allow students to take courses in Summer to jump grade and so he will not be in Algebra 2 when he enters high school. There is only one middle school and one high school in this prestigious school district. Placement in Hon Math will mitigate his chances of taking part in all the Math Competitions he is used to going and winning as well. I am really disappointed that something like this happens at Public schools and fate of the child is already sealed in 6th grade. Can anyone throw some light on this?</p>

<p>Unfortunately, students’ fates in terms of math placement often are sealed as early as 6th grade – or even earlier.</p>

<p>Math is a sequential subject in most school systems (although there are exceptions in some systems, where students may be permitted to take Geometry simultaneously with Algebra II).</p>

<p>But calculus in high school should still be within reach even if the curriculum doesn’t lend itself to taking these two courses in the same year.</p>

<p>With the typical course sequence of Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, Precalculus, and Calculus, a student who takes Algebra in 8th grade can still take calculus in high school.</p>

<p>When I was in high school, the normal sequence was:</p>

<p>8th: pre-algebra
9th: algebra 1
10th: geometry
11th: algebra 2
12th: trigonometry and precalculus</p>

<p>10% or less of the high school class was advanced a grade in math:</p>

<p>8th: algebra 1
9th: geometry (usually honors)
10th: algebra 2 (usually honors)
11th: trigonometry and precalculus (usually honors)
12th: calculus BC (the only calculus course offered)</p>

<p>Rarely, there would be a student two grades ahead in math who completed algebra 2 in 9th grade and completed calculus BC in 11th grade (usually considering the course an easy A and the AP test an easy 5).</p>

<p>So it is not clear that your student will miss being able to take calculus.</p>

<p>However, I do agree that the school should be transparent about placement policy and (to students and their parents) placement test scores. If they won’t tell you how he actually did on the placement test and what the minimum score for placement into whatever class is, they are certainly bringing suspicion on themselves that they may be not following a sensible policy or are violating stated policy.</p>

<p>Typically, after Pre-Algebra, the following courses remain:</p>

<p>1) Honors/Regular Algebra I
2) Honors/Regular Geometry
3) Honors/Regular Algebra II
4) Honors/Regular Pre-Calculus
5) AP Calculus AB
6) AP Calculus BC
7) Multivariable Calculus</p>

<p>Of course, it all depends on your child’s school district. IF, and only if, these are the ONLY math classes available in your district, the following lineup may be possible:</p>

<p>6th Grade: Honors Math 6
7th Grade: Honors/Regular Algebra I
8th Grade: Honors/Regular Geometry
9th Grade: Honors/Regular Algebra II
10th Grade: Honors/Regular Pre-Calculus
11th Grade: AP Calculus AB/BC
12th Grade: AP Calculus BC/Multivariable Calculus</p>

<p>Any student advanced enough in math to be in calculus in 11th grade (two grades ahead) should be capable of handling BC (full speed) and should not be forced to take AB before BC (half speed).</p>

<p>Drug-addicted homeless criminal-to-be. No doubt about it. No make ups. It’s his fate.</p>

<p>Why wasn’t he being taught algebra when he was 4? (Not a joke, or sarcasm: that’s when I think it is most appropriate.)</p>

<p>I suggest that you look into having your kid take Algebra One through EPGY or CTY and then retest.</p>

<p>Mine was not initially placed in Honors Algebra 1 in 8th grade, which would most likely have led to not taking AP Calc BC as a senior and not being part of the advanced science track in HS. He had a poor year/fit with his math teacher in 7th grade for several reasons, including being amongst a minority of “out of team” students and thus comparatively ignored. I called the G/T coordinator to discuss/protest the placement, and she was willing to work with me to fix it. Since he had qualified for CTY, we arranged for him to take Honors Algebra 1 through their computer-based distance learning program that summer. Since he was at CTY for the first part of the summer he didn’t have time to finish it until about October, but he was retested on the first day of school, and moved to the appropriate class, where he did extremely well. (While a number of those initially placed in the class floundered, I might add.) He continued to do extremely well throughout the remaining years of the math program, so clearly this was the right place for him.</p>

<p>I’m not sure that this is so awful. I believe that students take Algebra in 8th grade, then by senior year they take Calculus. </p>

<p>I’m still perplexed why we feel we have to push our kids so much, that they have to have taken advanced calculus, etc by the time they finish highschool. In my era, we had algebra in 9th grade, and I know that it didn’t stop us from getting into med school, graduate school, etc. we turned out just fine.</p>

<p>can someone explain why the school system has accelerated learning to make it so fast-paced and competitive?</p>

<p>Students in my d’s school could flip flop the order of Alg. 2 and Geometry, take them in any order they wanted to (or at the same time) after they had taken Alg. 1 and before trig and pre-calc.</p>

<p>Schools that aren’t rigid (which may not include yours) know that Geometry and Alg. 2 are not dependent on each other and allow students flexibility at that time of the math sequence. It doesn’t hurt to ask as your student gets a bit closer. Maybe something (an administrator or math teacher) will have changed and will be willing to listen and advocate for you.</p>

<p>re #8 Because there are kids who NEED THE STIMULATION. Sheesh. I am so sick of people assuming that all kids are perfectly happy plodding along at a slow pace, and that any who need/want to move faster are somehow being pushed or prodded.</p>

<p>I appreciate your replies to my post. And I get the humor from the last post as well. However, having both parents as technical geeks (engineer and scientist) it is hard. Since we know our childs math - logical reasoning ability. Also I have taught high school (5 years) math/science subjects at a private school to students who were aspiring actors/actresses and sports persons, they all were given chances to take higher level math/science class to pursue their college aspirations. Though I taught at a Private high school it doesn’t have the same restrictions as one would face in Public school system. I have not attented high school in USA, it was done in my home country. So the rules are different and I attended graduate school here in USA.</p>

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Manali, I shortened your first post to get to the core issue: you have 3 years of evidence that shows your son generally scores at a high level as well as wins in math competitions. If you are concerned about his placement in middle school as a result of one test, I suggest you talk to your administrators. Is it possible you misunderstood your son’s readiness for Pre-Algebra?</p>

<p>mini: i don’t usually agree with your posts, but #6 here was spot-on.</p>

<p>Im sure you will be fine. I, for some odd reason, was placed in pre- alg. for 6th AND 7th grade. So i took alg. 1 in 8th and geometry in 9th grade. Now, in my senior year, im taking both AP Calc BC and AP Stats, the two highest level math classes that my school has to offer, and i was pretty much on the same boat as your son. As you can see, you dont NEED to take alg. 2 starting your freshman year to take the highest level calc classes in high school. No need to worry, im sure your son will do just fine.</p>

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<p>The sad thing is, it could be that the student who is the subject of this thread is one who should be advanced ahead two grades in math, but was crowded out of the advanced class because some other parents pushed their students ahead of their abilities and filled up the advanced class.</p>

<p>Parents should have a say in their kids placement. I’d insist they show me the placement test, and pursue it with the Principal and administrator beyond Principal. The issue is more than can he take calculus in HS. There are other activities he won’t be able to do. You can evaluate further after seeing the placement tests. Writing letters and having them placed in the teachers’ and your son’s file would document your efforts and their response. </p>

<p>However, if he does struggle in the harder class, you should expect that no one will bend over backwards to help him.</p>

<p>S2 took Alg.1 in 8th grade (had not taken pre-alg. but was placed in class based on a standardized test score). Mistake… He barely passed so needed to retake. He doubled up on math as a freshman taking Alg.1 in the fall and Geom. in the spring which still left time for Alg.2,pre-cal and calc by senior yr. He didn’t talk calc. but it would have been possible if he had been a calc kind of guy (which he’s not!)</p>

<p>6th grade Algebra 1? Your kid has plenty of time. I didn’t take Algebra in middle school at all. Here’s what I did:
-8th grade: pre-algebra
-summer before 9th: algebra 1
-9th: geometry
-summer: algebra 2
-10th: pre calculus
-11th: Calculus BC
So you can see I went from one of the most backward math students to one of the most brilliant at my school. Next year I’m planning on taking Cal 3 or multivariable calculus. Don’t worry your kids fate is not sealed.</p>

<p>Oh I didn’t read your post completely. Why doesn’t the school allow students to take summer courses? You should ask that at PTA meetings. Does the high school allow it?</p>

<p>To answer your questions, avatarmage, when I wanted to know any other way around this, i.e take classes in summer, I was not given any clear idea what can be done instead I have been told that he will go to Hon. Pre-Algebra in 7th grade. When I asked for the placement breakdown I was told that placement score was 70% and other factors were not as stellar, meaning his standardized tests scores were not 600/600, and so all the 72 students who placed in Pre-Algebra scored 600/600 in their math scores in standardized tests (hard to believe). I was again stonewalled and told that scores are not released to parents and that they are for interna use by teachers only for placing the students. My request for letting him attend the Pre-Algebra class and observing his performance was vetoed out (rules of not having too many students in class and of course that initially he didn’t score in placement test).
The shroud of secrecy is what is bothering me. There is no transparency in how his performance will define his class selection in coming years.
And as ucbalumnus pointed out, indeed there are students who have been prodded by parents to be in that class are there. It seems strange that only my child (4th highest scorer in continental math league) is not in Pre-Algebra class, whereas almost all top scorers and many non-scorers are in that class.
I don’t know whether I should go to the Superintendent or not.</p>

<p>Freedom of information should allow you access to your son’s grades. You might need to go to the Superintendent or some other administrator, but you have a right to that information on your own son’s test results.</p>