<p>Placement into higher level courses is what the AP tests were originally for (hence the name). There is no point in having students repeat what they already know. Of course, not all colleges’ introductory courses are perfectly matched to the AP tests, so advanced placement is not always given.</p>
<p>As far as credit units for AP scores go, the college’s financial motivations may factor into the decisions. Private schools may be less likely to give credit units for AP scores than public schools, since private schools may prefer students to take extra courses/semesters paying tuition, while public schools may prefer students to graduate as quickly as possible to use the least amount of state subsidy. For example, UCLA is relatively stingy with placement and subject credit, but generous with credit units for AP scores.</p>
<p>Are we sure AP exam scores aren’t curved? Honesty I don’t know the answer to this. They (most but not all exams) do seem to fall into a normal distribution. As to classes where the majority get 4’s and 5’s, great! Just remember that there are also plenty of classes where the majority get 1’s and 2’s. Let’s not turn the one successful part of our high school system into another “participation award” system. AP classes, despite the complaints, are far more rigorous than any other class, at least in public schools. The exam forces people to take it seriously. I agree though that all AP’s are not equally challenging, an indeed some are drastically easier than others (hello AP Hum. Geo, AP Psych., and AP Env. Sci.). It probably shouldn’t be this way. But I’m not sure if all college classes are equally difficult either. Maybe someone who has been to college could help elaborate here.</p>
<p>Score distributions vary between various AP exams. For example, nearly half of AP calculus BC test takers score 5 (the modal score on BC), while only about a quarter of AP calculus AB test takers score 5 (the modal score on AB is 1, for about 30% of test takers), even though BC covers more material and is theoretically harder. This is likely because the students who take BC are generally the ones who are better at math or who have better math teachers (high schools with weaker math teachers or weaker-in-math students may just offer AB, if they offer any AP calculus, and schools which offer both tend to have the stronger-in-math students in BC).</p>
<p>The modal score on AP human geography is 1 (about 30% of test takers), even though it is not generally considered difficult. But it does appear that many high schools use this course as a frosh/soph level course, so even if the test is easy by college frosh standards, it may not be for the actual students taking it.</p>
<p>^^definitely not. College Board’s own reports don’t show a normal curve. The 2013 data hasn’t been posted yet, but in 2012, more than 50% of test takers scored a 5 on calc BC. I think some of the lowest percentages of 5 were in the English area. However far greater numbers of students took those tests</p>
<p>Biology (the new-for-2013 version)
World history
English literature
English language
Human geography
US history
US government</p>
<p>Those with a modal score of 5 include:</p>
<p>Chinese language and culture
Calculus BC
Japanese language and culture
Physics C mechanics
Physics C electricity and magnetism
German language
Computer science AB (discontinued)</p>
<p>No surprise – the lowest percentage of 5 scores tend to be in AP tests taken widely, or at lower grades (e.g. high school frosh/soph), while those where 5 is the modal score tend to have a lot of self-selected students who are the best ones in the subjects (heavy proportion of heritage speakers in the languages, or top students in math, physics, and computer science).</p>
<p>Just out of curiosity – and I don’t blame anyone for gaming the system at all – are you required to disclose on an AP language whether you are a native speaker of that language and / or whether it’s spoken in your home?</p>
<p>I think there may be a question about the number of years of study of the language (or whether it is a language spoken in the home), but I don’t believe that information is passed along to the colleges, or indicated in any way on the score report.</p>
<p>Either AP or the SAT II has a bubble in that allows for “native” speakers of Latin. I think this turns out to be students with 6+ years of instruction in Latin.</p>
<p>A lot of self-selectivity there; AP WH was a monster of a class at DD2’s freshman year, and a third dropped the class. Those who stayed got A’s and B’s in the class and 4’s and 5’s on the test. Class size was miniscule (started at 13-14, ended up under 10).</p>
<p>AP classes provide an economical way for public HSs to provide more challenging courses for stronger students. As far as I’m concerned, that’s the bottom line. If APs go away, NOTHING will replace them in most cases. </p>
<p>To say that APs give out high scores like candy is simply ridiculous. Go look at the score distribution information, for heaven’s sake, before making such pronouncements.</p>
<p>If you want to attack expensive and useless testing that actively harms education, look at NCLB annual testing.</p>
<p>Our HS, BTW, does not weight grades at all, does not require students to take the test, and pays for the test if it is a financial burden on the family.</p>
That’s interesting. S1 took APUSH, AP World, AP Gov. and AP Lit and “challenged” Human Geography and got fours or fives on all of them. The only remotely STEM AP class he took was Environmental Science, on which he got a four. I think the reason these courses have a low percentage of fives is that kids equate non-STEM with “easy” and sign up for them hoping to earn a few “easy” college credits. I assure you that’s not the case, especially with APUSH. S1 never worked so hard in his life as he did in that class.</p>
<p>Oh, in the real world people don’t say “STEM is hard, humanities are easy.” That’s just the little nerdy arrogant subculture within CC who wants to be recognized. In real life, people respect all areas of human inquiry.</p>
<p>When my kids were at school, it was rather simple for the teacher to administer trial AP exams to give the student a good idea of where s/he stood, and there would be no reason for someone who’s unprepared to pay the fees to take the real exam. Are students who are failing typically unaware of their weakness, and are they paying for it themselves, or is it a matter of just going through the exam because they were asked to take the exam that was paid for by someone else? If the school system encourages students who have little interest in the subject matter to take AP courses and the exams, it’s foolish. None of our kids cared for subjects like history, and we were all happy they didn’t even attempt courses like AP European history, let alone take the exam.</p>
<p>A point in favor of APs (at least at our HS) was that it ensured the breadth and depth of the curriculum to a level that may not have been sought if it were fully up to the teacher. There were sufficient number of honors courses, where a teacher could actually go beyond AP material in some areas, if necessary, but typically it was kept at a lower level, and there were even more regular courses for those who just needed to satisfy the credits in that area.</p>
<p>However, that is “mission creep”. The original purpose of AP tests was to allow the most advanced high school students to skip introductory college courses covering material that they already know. Now, it seems that AP tests have by default become a definition of high school curriculum, given the proliferation of “AP lite” tests that are rarely useful for placement in college, and are considered suitable for high school frosh and sophomore students.</p>
<p>At my kid’s Catholic school, AP courses are taken very seriously. There are several criteria to qualify for an AP class. If kids aren’t doing well in AP classes, they drop to the Honors equivalent. The reading and writing loads in the classes are high, and practice tests are taken throughout the year. All kids who do take an AP class are required to take the test, and the passing rate is 87%. I’m against the rampant grade inflation I see everywhere, but if APs are only offered to those high school students who demonstrate they are ready to handle college work, and they are taught with appropriate rigor, then most kids SHOULD pass.</p>
<p>Our public school district requires a score of 88% on standardized testing to get into AP classes, but if a student and parent meet with administrators they’ll be allowed into the AP class even if they don’t have 88%. Many kids take the class but not the test. The passing percentage for those who do take the test is 60% (they don’t publish how many kids opt out of the test). To me, that indicates these AP classes are not taught with appropriate rigor, and is a big reason why my academically talented kids are not in the public schools here. </p>
<p>AP classes were the first classes to truly push my daughter’s limits, and she loved them and I believe is much better prepared for college as a result. Even if she hadn’t received credit for the courses, they would have been worth it.</p>
<p>I think you are placing undue emphasis on what year the test is taken. I have observed from CC that most of the students taking the so-called AP lite courses, such as AP Psych, seem to do so senior and junior year. At our HS–which doesn’t offer the AP lites–a select group of students used to take AP European History as sophomores. S’s class did so and achieved an average score over 4. The science curriculum was revamped so that a similarly select group of kids–often the same kids–went directly from freshman Honors Introduction to Science (a notoriously tough course, not the fluff it sounds like) to the AP Bio/Chem/Physics sequence.</p>
<p>The AP lites as you call it - Gov, Human Geo, Psych are typically taken as senior electives in my daughter’s school so that they have a higher rigor/weighted schedule their senior year. (Since most of the other electives - art, music, theater, cooking, etc - have no weighting and therefore bring down the GPA). Also, at her school, European History is the sophomore history course and the honors students take it as AP - they seem to do fine- 75% of them score 3 or higher.</p>