<p>AP</a> Classes Are a Scam - John Tierney - The Atlantic</p>
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AP courses are not, in fact, remotely equivalent to the college-level courses they are said to approximate. ... the most serious count against Advanced Placement courses is that the AP curriculum leads to rigid stultification -- a kind of mindless genuflection to a prescribed plan of study that squelches creativity and free inquiry.
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<p>As with anything, you can overthink things. For our experience, they were exactly as promised – advanced classes that my kids enjoyed and learned from, and that also looked good on college apps. Why they “need” to be thought about with any more depth than that? I don’t get the overpromising. And I didn’t think they were “mindless” or “genuflection” at all.</p>
<p>The comments in response to Tierney’s article give a much more nuanced picture of AP classes, showing that some AP courses can be equivalent to college courses and others are College Board sanctioned ripoffs. You could look at any CC thread talking about AP and see the same kind of anecdotal evidence. </p>
<p>Tierney doesn’t mention perhaps the most influential cause of the increase in AP coursework: the Newsweek ranking of high schools based solely on AP enrollment.</p>
<p>AP courses are probably college level at half the colleges tne country, just not the ones we here in CC land like to talk about. For the most part my kids had teachers that managed to teach lots of things that weren’t required by the AP Curriculum and found plenty of ways to incorporate creative assignments.</p>
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<p>The overpromising is in the name itself, which implies that AP courses are college level. In a few cases (e.g. calculus BC, taught in one year, not two), they are roughly the equivalent of college freshman courses at most universities.</p>
<p>But there has been a proliferation of “AP lite” courses and tests which, although they can be good high school level courses for motivated students, are not all that well accepted for college subject credit and placement (e.g. human geography, environmental science, statistics, etc.). One only has to go to the AP forum and look at which ones get mentioned in the “easiest APs to self-study” threads to see that. Also, the fact that some of them are, at some high schools, routinely taken by non-prodigy high school freshmen and sophomores implies that they are not really true college level courses.</p>
<p>In addition, many high schools take a year to cover a semester’s worth of college material, so that the course is not truly reflective of the rigor of a college course (e.g. calculus AB, statistics, either part of economics, psychology, chemistry, either part of physics C, the government ones, etc.), possibly misleading students about what a college course is like.</p>
<p>The AP classes at my high school were hit or miss. Calc? Definitely college level. English? Harder than most freshman English classes. World History? Absolute joke. </p>
<p>I learned that I didn’t like AP classes as much as Honors. Honors was same level of rigor without the teaching to the test component. I ended up taking 10 AP tests but only 3-4 AP classes. For me personally, it wasn’t worth it. For others, it is. Depends, like always, on school/student/teacher etc. </p>
<p>No, they aren’t a scam.</p>
<p>Not only do I think they’re a scam, I don’t think the testing amounts to a hill of beans either. I don’t see how AP scores even get you ahead in college except perhaps some intro math class. </p>
<p>So much of it comes down to the teacher. S had the teacher of a lifetime for english junior year. He didn’t even take AP. He told me after having him, his college writing class is a breeze. </p>
<p>My d is taking AP english at a different school, different teacher. It is nowhere near as rigorous, not by a long shot. </p>
<p>However, it’s an arms race now in schools with sophomores starting with AP’s for that almighty checked box from the gc on the rigor of the students class schedule.</p>
<p>During the same semester when my daughter was taking the second half of AP U.S. History, her older brother, who was attending our flagship state university, took “History of the United States Since 1865” to fulfill a distribution requirement. </p>
<p>These two courses would be expected to be essentially the same, and they were. I asked both kids to show me some course materials, assignments, and tests, and they turned out to be quite similar, except that the tests in the college course were easier. Presumably, this was because the college professor did not have to prepare his students to take the AP test. The high school teacher did (and most got 4s or 5s).</p>
<p>I’m satisfied that in this instance, the college course and the second half of the AP course provided similar learning experiences.</p>
<p>Of course, one can question whether the type of learning experience they provided was the best way to learn about U.S. history since the Civil War. One could argue that a course that focused in greater depth on a smaller number of topics would provide a better learning experience than the survey courses that both of my kids took. But that’s a different question.</p>
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<p>I think they need to be scrutinized. But that may be because I am from CA, where one can receive a diploma from our #1 ranked state university (UCB), which is also one of the top u’s in the country and world, with a not insignificant portion of course work completed in high school, not college.</p>
<p>AP credits should be taken into consideration when evaluating UC diplomas against those of other top colleges that do not accept AP credit. If a student takes the AP credit and then moves onto higher level coursework over 4 years of enrollment, that is one thing. But if a student receives the same diploma in 3+ years due to AP credits earned in high school, then does and should the diploma have the same value?</p>
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<p>It is entirely possible that a well taught high school course taken by the most advanced and motivated high school students could be more rigorous than a freshman-level college course that is not a prerequisite to anything else and is populated by mostly students taking it for a requirement without being all that interested in the subject.</p>
<p>Of course, the quality of instruction and the rigor level of the high school and college courses can vary, so it may be difficult or inaccurate to generalize over all high schools and colleges.</p>
<p>AP classes are a great way for a high school kid to get into a class with other high school kids who want to be in school, want to go to college and are willing to take on a little extra work. Often the classroom discussion is more stimulating than in a standard high school class, but that depends on the teachers and fellow students.</p>
<p>Many colleges give college credit for them, which frees up freshman scheduling. What more do you want out of an AP class?</p>
<p>Nobody believes AP classes are “college level” - nobody believes freshman college classes are college level! hello?</p>
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<p>Precisely.</p>
<p>I think the guy who wrote the article for The Atlantic has been out of college so long that he doesn’t remember what most freshman college courses are like. They’re not the place for “creativity and free inquiry.” In most instances, they’re introductory survey courses, taught from an established syllabus that differs very little from year to year.</p>
<p>No one is saying that AP courses are equivalent to an upper-level seminar course for majors. But can they be equivalent to an introductory lecture course, especially one intended for students who will major in something else? Sure they can, and in many cases they are. In some instances (as in the two U.S. history courses I described), the AP course may even be more rigorous than its college equivalent.</p>
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<p>Only to the extent that you value the student taking additional lower division free elective courses at college (which is what most AP score credit ends up being treated as). At Berkeley, subject credit for AP scores is much more limited than credit units for AP scores; most divisions limit the use of AP scores for breadth requirements, and majors necessarily require upper division courses, regardless of whether lower division prerequisite courses were taken at Berkeley, community college, or as AP courses in high school.</p>
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<p>Some of the least rigorous college courses are those specifically for non-majors who need to fulfill breadth requirements (e.g. the “physics for poets” and “rocks for jocks” type of courses). Even a regular high school course in the subject may be more rigorous than those courses. Of course, that calls into question whether the breadth requirement serves its intended purpose.</p>
<p>The link didn’t work for me - so i can’t speak to the article, but I can speak to Are AP Courses a Scam - and I don’t think they are. </p>
<p>I realize that teachers are all different, HSs are different, lets agree that there are variables within the program. However, they are still more advanced courses, and in our HS system, there are no Honors classes past Freshman level, so you have to take AP, to get challenged, if you are in any way academnically gifted.</p>
<p>The other plus, is that you can test out of college level intro courses, so my youngest started as a Soph. So, it’s a win-win for him, not a scam. But I will keep on trying to access the article, to see why the author would call AP classes a scam.</p>
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<p>I can’t speak for human geog or enviro, but I think AP statistics (or a statistics course in general) is FAR, FAR more useful to most people than calculus will ever be, and I hate how statistics is seen as the ugly and easy stepchild. I say this as a math major.</p>
<p>The article has some serious problems. Why is AP a scam? One of the six key reasons the author gave is this:
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<p>I’m not a huge fan of AP branded classes but I am a fan of making sure high schools have classes that are rigorous and in keeping with what college bound kids should be studying and learning. This can be accomplished with or without the “AP brand.” As far as who takes these classes, as long as the teacher is capable of keeping the class at an appropriate pace and parents understand when marginally prepared kids dont’ ace the class (or the test) then I have no problem with students who stretch and reach. I would always be pleased with a kid who pushed him/herself and got a B and a 3 in an AP class than a kid who slid through an easy class with an A. Being prepared for college has as much to do with knowing how to dig deep for a class than it is about sliding through high school and getting smacked in the face in college.</p>
<p>I don’t think AP is a scam, but I think the focus has been lost regarding their purpose. Personally I don’t think any college in the country should give ‘credit’ for them but I do think the test scores could be used for placement purposes.</p>
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<p>While statistics is certainly useful for many students, the AP course and test is commonly mentioned as an “easy to self study” AP, and is at best equivalent to the lowest level one-semester introductory college statistics course, if anything (it appears to be a year long course in most high schools). “AP lite” status has nothing to do with the usefulness of the subject in general.</p>
<p>Not sure why APs would be called a scam. I’m happy that my kid was able to get 18 hrs of college credit for his AP tests. The classes weren’t easy. IMO they are comparable to college freshman/sophomore classes. Most kids at his HS took APs to lighten their loads in college, save $ on tuition, graduate early. Most of them go to public colleges that are generous with AP credit. Why repeat required courses like freshman English or American History if you don’t have to? $85 (test fee) for 3-8+ credit hours (depending on the college and the AP course/score) sounds like a great deal to me. Heck yes a college diploma with AP credits should have the same value as one without–even if it didn’t have the same cost.</p>
<p>If your college gives no credit for APs, you might feel ripped off. However, students are free to choose colleges where they can use their test scores for credit.<br>
Students who fail their AP tests might also feel ripped off. Students who are not capable of college level work should not sign up for AP classes.</p>