Advanced Placement vs. Dual Enrollment

Applying to College
1

I’ve been advised by a family member to take DE classes instead of AP; they think it’ll help more later on with AP’s getting Grade inflation and exams getting easier. I haven’t gotten the oppurtunity to talk it over with school faculty about which would be more rigorous, but I have a feeling AP’s are harder. The only classes with both DE and AP options available are English, and DE Psych/Soc and advancing on to AP Psych.

In my case, DE and AP are both weighted the same, and DE is taught in school, not at the local community college; you just receive the credits from an exam and a certain grade. I really want to attend school out of state, shooting for HYPSM.

Does anyone have any advice? Which looks better/preps you for college better? In this case, I’m not actually going to a college for DE, so will it affect a college’s acceptance of the credit? I’m graduating 2018, by the way.

2

As far as difficulty goes it’s a toss up. At my high school, dual enrollment classes were very easy. True they were harder than the regular classes, but their AP equivalents were just more rigorous. But I’m sure that’s a different story at some schools. I’d recommend the AP classes. They’re usually rigorous, and prepare students somewhat well for college. Plus the test is a nice sum up at the end of the year that can get you something good in college if you do well enough. I’d go with AP.

3

Colleges generally like to see you maxing out the resources available to you at your own high school. I’d go with AP too.

4

Could you take the DE course and the AP exam, so that you are covered for colleges which prefer one or the other (though you would not get double credit)?

However, college courses taken while in high school could affect your college GPA for the purpose of applying to medical or law school, if that is of interest. This may be favorable or unfavorable, depending on what grades you get.

5

We don’t have a DE option where we live, however, I was recently talking to a mother who moved here from a place that did. Her daughter chose DE because she was worried about not getting credit for college if she did not score high enough on the AP exams. She was a strong student but not a great test taker. She finished high school with a 4.0 GPA in college courses that were all accepted by the college where she was accepted. For her, the risk of not getting high enough AP scores for the same outcome was too great.

6

@ucbalumnus I’m not sure, but I think that would be a little risky. I’d need to check with my GC if that would be advisable.

@NorthernMom61 I think I’m good enough a test taker for AP, not to mention the greater variety of courses in comparison to DE. However, several classes I am taking offer only the DE option. If nothing else, it will bring up my weighted GPA.

7

Personally, I advised by children to focus on Dual Enrollment Courses as opposed to AP Courses. In this regard, I happen to agree with your family member. I think you are just finishing up your Freshman Year at a High School in Virginia. As an example, the University of Virginia will only accept 4s or 5s on your AP Exams, while they will accept pretty much a grade of C and above for your Dual Enrollment Courses. In Virginia, are your Dual Enrollment Classes Tuition/Fees/Books, are paid for by the State/Local School Board? If yes, this is one way of reducing your overall college cost if you can accumulate as much DE credit as possible. Technically, you could enter a University with as much as 60 DE Credits as a Junior and finish your 4-year university within two years and possibly start your graduate degree much earlier than your peers. I would suggest you take your DE Courses on site at a local Community College or 4-year College close to your home and try to avoid those courses which satisfy High School Requirements (if possible). Some University doesn’t care if your DE courses satisfy HS Requirements or taken on site, but some do.

I prefer DE Courses over AP for the reasons discussed above. Less risky as far as get 4s or 5s on the AP Exam and the student “potentially” getting their first two years of College free of cost. In some states, you can do your Junior and Senior years at a “Specialized” (very Competitive) High School, co-located at a Local University/Community College. For example:

http://www.mdc.edu/main/sas/

http://www.mdc.edu/main/sas/alumni/testimonials2014.aspx (some of their graduates)

You can also do both AP and DE courses by avoid any overlap in courses, or just take the AP Exam after taking the AP Courses (duplicated effort though).

8

@Psata82 I’m not quite sure how you knew I was a VA frosh unless you’ve seen my other posts, but yes, I am. I am Asian American and extremely reluctant to go to an in-state uni because of how close I am to parents. And from what I’ve seen, most colleges I’ve looked at don’t accept DE credits, except for advanced placement exams they offer that stull require the same number of credits to graduate. Again, there are few DE classes to take, and actually, my guidance counselor puts only AP classes as the ‘moat rigorous’ when sending the list of hardest classes out to colleges. I alsp don’t think I’ll qualify for those hybrid high school/colleges, what with the magnet school up north.

What do you mean by ‘avoiding overlap’ in courses? And taking the exam after taking the course is ‘duplicated effort’? I have been informed it’s standard to take the exam at the end of the year…

9

Unless you continue to live at home and commute to a nearby school, how would that make a difference? Or do you think that your parents will make frequent unannounced helicopter visits if your school is close to home?

Are there DE and AP courses you are choosing from other than the ones you mentioned which are offered as both? For those not offered as both, choose based on whether the subjects match your academic goals and complete a well rounded rigorous college prep curriculum (i.e. sufficient years or level of English, math, history and social studies, science, foreign language, art and/or music).

10

Stanford, MIT, UC Berkeley, WUSTL, University of Michigan, UVA, University of Texas, UofMiami, and many other highly rated Universities do accept Dual Enrollment credits.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/487304-do-top-private-universities-accept-dual-enrollment-credits.html

I wasn’t suggesting you attend UVA (or another other State Flagship) and used that school as an example. As far as overlap is concerned, I was suggesting that if you do Dual Enrollment at a Local University or Community College (CC), that your AP Courses/Exam do not overlap. For example, doing Calculus I at a CC and doing AP Calculus Course/Exam at your High School. Both will only yield credits for one or the other.

11

The guidance counselor at my daughter’s large public high school pointed out last year that a lot of universities do not like DE classes for the purpose of admissions, not even if they are from their own campus. While it sometimes cannot be avoided (e.g. for Foreign Language classes), she pointed out that AP content and test results are nationally more comparable while college course/DE content and grading depends on the instructor and could be everything from extremely excellent to very, very faulty.

I would talk to your guidance counselor. You can probably not go wrong with a good mix between AP and DE.

12

@Psata82 Sorry if im hijacking this thread. I am a junior taking calc 1 at a CC. Should I take AP calc ab at my hihg school senior year, or does me taking calc 1 at the CC suffice? which looks better, AP calc or CC calc?

13

@IrisShadow DE is such a variable tossup due to the difference in education standards and curricula. It’s good, don’t get me wrong, and somewhat comparable to AP. However, colleges can always squint their eyes a little because they don’t really know what DE is for that school’s situation. They have a general idea of what AP Psych is because AP resources have to be approved by College Board.

I would go with AP, just to be safe.

14

@Tallymon2017: I bet she did not tell you that a lot of high schools try to push their students to take AP Courses because it affects their State/National High School Ranking? I had the Guidance Counselor at my daughter’s High School (one of the top public high school in my state) say the same thing. Of course I was tipped off ahead of time that she might say this and would try to convince my daughter to do as many AP courses as possible. A number of Universities will not accept AP Courses (example, AP Statistics) for as prerequisites for their graduate program, but will accept Community College courses.

My daughter has over 43 DE credits and ALL which, she will transfer over to the 4-year College that she has elected to attend. She does have a couple of transfer AP credits, which will allow her to finish her undergraduate degree within two years with 1 (or 2 summer sessions), depending on her semester course-load. It is important to follow the prerequisites outlined for the degree program you wish to pursue at a 4-year University to guarantee that all your credits will transfer over. At most high school, DE credits are weighted the same as AP credits, which can impact your weighted GPA significantly. DE courses last only one semester, while AP courses take an entire school year. I student can take the equivalent of two courses during the time period a student does 1 AP Course. You can also take 3 or more DE courses over the summer term, if so desire.

BTW, she did not think highly of the AP teachers at her school and found the CC teachers much more capable and than the CC counterparts and the CC Textbooks were well written. Those 43 DE credits did not incur any cost to her, since the Tuition, Fees and Books were completely paid for by the local School Board. The cumulative effect is that she will save about $44K in Tuition, Fees, Room/Board, Books and other miscellaneous charges.

15

I would be wary of any college that accepts CC credits in high school as just as good as its own coursework.

16

^A lot of good colleges do?

17

@Psata82: No, the GC only referred to admission to the two flagship universities and to highly selective out-of-state colleges. She is an old hand and there is little she has not seen in many decades as GC. She switched schools this year … unfortunately. One of her issues was that DE classes at school are taught by (then) community college instructors and (now) by professors of the lowest-performing university in the state. There just had been a switch by the county school board. DE classes on the flagship campus are often taught by TAs, not by professors, and thus the reluctance of the admission officers with classes from their own campus.

But I know what you mean with schools pushing APs. Our high school doesn’t but two other high schools in the city do and made it on the top 500 list. I only wonder what the passing rates are; they are not factored into the formula.

18

Re #11

HS calculus AB will duplicate college calculus 1. Take college calculus 2 next.

19

I was never planning on taking Calc 1, or any classes that overlap, considering the only ones that do are English, and I agree with @NavalTradition. The community college near me is far from great, plus in my case, I am only being taught by high school teachers, instead of travelling to campus. A lot of AP teachers at my school are considered amazing; the ‘worse’ teachers are actually a few DE and regular class teachers. Also, you must meet certain grade requirements and typically pass an exam (both pretty easy, however) to enroll in the first place, then fill out an application and pay money… Not as much as AP, but what I think is a substantial amount.

My parents intend on visiting me a lot if I am close enough to home, so yes, I think it makes at least some difference, @ucbalumnus. That, in addition to a bit of wanderlust and hopefully a lot more independence.

For clarification, there are far more AP’s available than DE; really only Engineering, English, a wayward math or two, and Marketing courses offer DE, while ~3/4 of all AP’s are offered.

@SternBusiness Yes, you are hijacking, and it is extremely annoying. There are several threads on CC asking yhe exact same question; I had the same wuestion myself and found the answer. From what I understand, the letters equate numbers.

The ‘A’ in AB = Calc 1
The ‘B’ in AB and BC = Calc 2
The ‘C’ in BC = Calc 3

I would just take AP Calc AB.

I’m more interested in the humanities, and while law school isn’t entirely out of the question, I am totally nixing being a doctor.

20

Actually, the correspondence between high school AP calculus and college calculus at most colleges is the following:

AP calculus AB ≈ college calculus 1
AP calculus BC ≈ college calculus 1 and 2

College calculus 3, or multivariable calculus, is beyond any AP course.