Advantage BCC & Binghamton U: deception or genuinely improving outcome for at risk students?

Which do you think motivates the Advantage program?

It is no secret that CC graduation rates tend to be low. Students often leave CC after one year to attend a 4 year college; that is actually a success. But, it is also true that many students simply drop out or take a course every year or so-the ten year plan. Often they have such skill deficits that they struggle even in CC. I’ve read that nationally CC’s are trying to improve the success rates of those students at greatest risk of drop out. Naturally, the way to do that is to help those at greatest risk remediate any deficits. Helping students who struggle academically is a major mission of CCs and it is a great way to improve the graduation rates.

New York seems eager to improve CC ratings; they seem less eager to do it by helping struggling students succeed. Instead, they seem focused on improving CC ratings by redirecting capable strong students from 4 year colleges to community colleges. These students have applied to 4 year colleges and universities and appear to have strong credentials for 4 year schools. Binghamton’s Advantage program is a good example. Those who got into other 4 year schools are being rejected by Binghamton but offered a slot in the Advantage Program. They live in Binghamton University dorms (expensive) but take classes in CC. Their scores don’t count in Binghamton’s freshman profiles because they are technically CC students who are willing to sacrifice a year at CC (that they clearly don’t need since they are fully capable of academic success) to end up with a Binghamton diploma. They fill the expensive dorms. But here is the benefit for CC. Since they don’t need remedial work and since they had planned to attend a 4 year school, they are low risk for drop out. So they improve the graduation stats (and transfer to 4 year college stats) of NY’s community college. This is clearly not the best thing for most of those students from a pedagogical standpoint-in fact it seems harmful to them because it conveys the sense that they were not academically ready for college (when they are, as evidenced by the fact that they were often accepted by other strong 4 year programs that they don’t view as being as “prestigious” as Binghamton). And ironically, at the same time, the advantage program helps CC ratings by giving the appearance that they are doing better retaining and educating at risk students. They have filled expensive Binghamton U dorms. But they have not helped the population of at risk students who were dropping out. It is a shell game. Move students fully capable of success at a 4 year school and give the CC status so it looks like they are improving the outcomes of the high risk community college population. That’s Binghamton!

Incidentally, these students have not applied to the Advantage program and are often initially confused about the program.
They often struggle to decide if it is worth going backwards (yes many have already taken many AP classes and done well on the tests) for that Binghamton U degree in 4 years or should they go to actual 4 year colleges that accepted them?

At the same time BCC and Binghamton University are claiming improved retention rates and they are celebrating the increase in students from outside of Broome. This is a community college in a town with low education levels. Let’s get those students from Broome who really are not ready for 4 year college. Stop the gamesmanship Binghamton and Broome. We want transparency!

"With a 5.6% enrollment increase this year, SUNY Broome stood out from its peers this year as the
only New York State Community College to report an increase. On-campus student housing, the
growth of the Binghamton Advantage Program and the college‟s focus on retention efforts can be
credited for rise in enrollment. "

"The Student Village, the College‟s first residence hall, opened this year and added more than 350
students to the campus community. More than 90% of these students are from outside of Broome
County. The number of students in the Binghamton Advantage Program – a unique admissions
program linking SUNY Broome and Binghamton University – have more than doubled in the past
year; more than 90 percent of these students also come from beyond the county‟s borders.
Retention efforts have also increased over the past five years, with the percentage of fall-to-fall
retention increasing from 61% to 63% for full-time students enrolled for the first time. SUNY
Broome will be continuing its retention progress with the implementation of Starfish Retention
Solutions, beginning this Fall. An organizer and facilitator of student success, Starfish provides
tracking, assessment and communication tools that will help increase our retention percentages
campus-wide. "

The question: Is taking students clearly well prepared for a 4 year college and having them attend CC really addressing the problem with enrollment and retention of at risk students?And is the fact that BCC is attracting so many students from other areas really addressing the need to improve educational achievement rates in BCC-which suffers from high rates of poverty and drop out?

I have to be honest: I’m from Long Island and know very little about BCC in particular. So I’ll address mostly the whole Community College thing.

I don’t think that the problem is necessarily with BCC or NY or anything of the sort.

I think that part of the problem is the mindset that college is right for everyone. And, furthermore, that it’s right at age 17.

As a result, too many kids get pushed into college when they’re not college material. They see it as the next step after senior year, the thing you do until you figure out what you really want to do. And, as a result, they flounder.

Another huge issue is the idea that Community College is the right place for a kid who struggles. BCC is relatively small, with under 7,000 students. (As opposed to Nassau, with a student body of over 23,000 or Suffolk CC, with over 26,000). A kid who is already struggling with academics is going to find it way too easy to fall through the cracks in a very large school. I cringe every single time I read someone here on CC blithely tell a struggling student to go to Community College. Sure, it was a great fit for me-- I was an honors student with academic ambition. I graduated, transferred to a local university, and graduated with my class.

But it is NOT a good fit for too many kids who end up going there because no one has guided them toward a school that IS the right fit, that will provide the academic support and safety net they need.

I think it’s a big problem for all colleges, but particularly those with open enrollment: community colleges. Since you don’t have to prove that you’re “college material” to get in, and it’s less of a financial risk in case you’re not “college material”, too many kids end up in a CC when it was never a good choice for them. And a year or two or three later, someone realizes that it was never a good choice, and they drop out.

I imagine a huge reason for choosing BCC is that it’s a community college with dorms. So you get the whole “away at school” experience, but without the need to prove your academic credentials and at a bargain SUNY price. AND there’s the added benefit of being near SUNY Binghamton.

Again, I’m sure it’s absolutely the right choice for a lot of kids, as Nassau CC was for me. But I’m not sure it’s the right choice for everyone, particularly for kids who struggle.

How do you know how families reacted to being offered this program? Did someone interview all of them? If there are articles or survey results, please post links to them.

Nobody is forcing these families, who can apparently afford the $20k to dorm at a SUNY, to accept the Advantage program and its year of community college classes over a full 4 years at one of the other SUNYs. If they want to enter the program, that’s their prerogative. If they’re getting what they signed up for – a year of cc classes, 3 years of SUNY Binghamton classes, and a Binghamton degree – then I don’t see how they were deceived.

I get that you don’t like Bing (or the SUNY system in general) but students have a choice. They obviously didn’t make the official cut for Bing and are given a choice. If they TRULY are ready for a four year school they can attend one that accepted them. If they want Bing then they have an alternative way. This is the way Ohio State and Penn State do admission (though through their alternate campuses). This is also done at the service academies with students who don’t make the first cut. They are offered a year in the Prep School.

Please post the study or survey that supports that.

My emphasis added on the above quotes

There are a number of other state schools that offer programs similar to binghamton advantage. I know Clemson has a similar “Bridge program”. The program is directed to students who for whatever reason have binghamton as their first choice. Would it be cheaper for them to attend a local community college for a year and transfer to bing? Sure. But if a bing is your first choice, you’d rather spend 4 years there than 2 years as a commuting to Nassua/Rockland/Queensborough CC and then 2 years as a transfer. If you’re planning on transferring to binghamton anyway and are willing to pay, binghamton advantage isn’t that bad of a deal.

As for BCC, it’s a smaller community college that just doesn’t have the resources or the enrollment a downstate CC might have. Community colleges don’t have the greatest retention anyway since a lot of students choose work and childcare over education especially in an economically struggling areas. I just hope that the advantage program isn’t causes overcrowding and people getting locked out of classes they need. Otherwise, I don’t have an issue with the program.

Austinmshauri. It is my opinion that students are being offered a program that is inappropriate from an academic standpoint regardless of whether or not other schools offer similar programs. I am questioning NY State’s motive behind the program and its acceptance patterns. And because I think it is inconsistent with the goal of CC’s which we all pay for.

And as per how do I know how families react…well I’m more concerned about the justification for the program but having now talked with quite a few students and their families, I know from talking to students and from posts like the ones below. One student offered the "presidential at UVM” was invited to attend BCC? Is BCC an appropriate placement for that student? I would argue that it is not even if the student wants the Binghamton degree enough to sacrifice academics for a year. My point is to question why are we doing this to kids? I question the ethics of taking an academically strong student and making her attend CC as a condition of being accepted to the university-unless there a pedagogical reasons for doing so-and I can’t think of any.

By the way, positive change won’t happen if nobody is willing to open their mouth about problems in a system. Binghamton U has problems. Calling it a “PUblic Ivy” and blasting PR messages won’t fix the problems.

Also, I would feel much better about the program if they were taking traditional CC students and giving them opportunities to take classes at Binghamton U. That is really the goal of a community college–to take students who might not feel ready to attend a 4 year school, bolster their skills and provide opportunities to see that they can succeed-not the opposite!

2011 Times article “And next fall, Binghamton University, one of SUNY’s four research universities, will begin a program that puts another spin on the community college route. It has just offered about 600 applicants spots in its freshman dormitories. But those students will enroll at Broome Community College a few miles away, becoming eligible for admission to Binghamton in a year or two.

Asked if housing a subset of community college students on campus could make them feel second-class, Sandra Starke, vice provost for enrollment management at Binghamton, said: “We’re hoping that’s not the case. We believe all students will be inspiring one another to do better.”

What follows are student reactions on this site to being accepted only to Binghamton’s Advantage program. I’m sure there are others that are thrilled but there are plenty that got in to manhy 4 year colleges but Binghamton is re-routing them to CC (if they take the offer-which I am arguing is an inappropriate program):

“03-31-2014 at 7:12 pm
Same boat very surprised I didnt get accepted, made it into a ton of other colleges “ranked” higher, yet bing was my first choice”

“03-31-2014 at 7:56 pm
Im going to call tmmrw and see if I can get this changed. Cause I honestly expected an acceptance. Smh. Better than nothing I guess /: @da2jason

My son also got accepted to Bing Advantage. The website says you’re a member of both communities. I would think you would feel second-class taking classes at a cc but he spoke to someone who is in the program now and she says that isn’t the case. The bonus is that he gets to have a car on campus as a freshman,

04-01-2014 at 9:04 am
@Clarimodest:You’re right, thank you (: I think Im just going to go to University at Buffalo as an EOP student and then try being a transfer the following year.

04-01-2014 at 9:04 am
@Clarimodest:You’re right, thank you (: I think Im just going to go to University at Buffalo as an EOP student and then try being a transfer the following year.

04-01-2014 at 6:07 pm
@kmacNJ I decided Im going to UBuffalo with my EOP & then transfer as an EOP candidate for Binghamton. I got rejected as an EOP for Binghamton this time around because my grades were too high /:

S has an offer for Bing Advantage but we are afraid that academically it will be lost year (he is in rigorous HS and community college classes will most likely be less challenging than HS classes). Paying over $20K for community college also seems to be excessive. However it is still in-state tuition and guaranteed transfer to Bing. Vermont will be about $4K higher (w/ scholarship/ loan package) but academically it seems to be about same level as Bing and obviously exceeds community college.
Appreciate all opinions.
Reply

I toured both campuses with my daughters last year. Both schools were on the short list for different reasons.
I always held Bing in high regard. . The dorms are nice. The student body seemed friendly and the campus had a cozy feel. The student body seemed a little jockish if that matters any. . Its a great school in a drab area. I don’t think it will matter if he started out a BCC in the end. UVM is in a lovely town. I love Burlington. It seems vibrant and hip… which turned my jockish daughter off. She felt she would not fit in with the hipster vibe. I think academically they are on the same level. Its a matter of fit. UVM and Bing are out of state for us. Bing’s pricetag was very reasonable without merit. Both girls got presidential at UVM, still a higher price tag. I worried about the minimum gpa requirement because one daughter is an engineering major. In the end the girls chose different schools. I would have been fine with either school.

03-31-2015 at 6:42 pm
Would like to hear answers as well. Not too happy that I couldn’t get in to main campus. But how does advantage work? Do I still live on bing campus?

04-01-2015 at 5:40 pm
Yes, they told me to make my decision quickly since spots fill up fast. I do not feel i need community college classes. I took AP Language and Composition, AP Statistics, and AP Gov. I got all As in those classes and I also took Sociology through Syracuse University and a college composition class. I have been taken college and honor level classes and done very well in them so i don’t understand why Binghamton wants me to go to Broome Community College. Thank you for your reply. You gave me a lot to look into.

Comments: AP Scholar with Honors in H.S, AP Cambridge Capstone Honors(Research Program); I was admitted into the Binghamton Advantage Program but declined, I’m hoping that my current College GPA can put me over the edge in terms of admission.

04-01-2013 at 4:03 pm
We got the binghamton advantage program?!! Live on campus but go to Broome for 2 years…would rather have had spring offer
Reply

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Erin’s Dad, Being critical of BU’s practices when they appear dishonest or when they seem to be harmful to students, is one way to encourage the school to change in a positive way. If you know the recent history of the school, you also know that the school has had to have considerable outside help to change practices that were harmful to the school, students, staff and faculty. It’s good for them to know we watch. We don’t just pay taxes. We watch.