Advantages of all womens? and how all womens is it?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Barnard College
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<p>I am deciding between Barnard and Tufts.</p>

<p>Originally I didn’t want to apply to any all-female schools. However, my guidance counselor convinced me to look at Barnard because it matched all of my criteria, and when I visited I had a great experience.</p>

<p>I was also told it was " the only co-ed all women’s college" because guys are in all your classes, ECs, living across the street, etc.
However…I just visited, and I’m realizing it is more of a big deal than I had thought. </p>

<p>What I don’t really get is…why should I want to go to an all-women’s college? I know it’s supposed to be “empowering” but I don’t really think I need empowerment. Someone also said the alumni connections are stronger but I dont see why having them all be women would make the graduate-alumni relationship stronger, than from a co-ed school. The all-women’s aspect just seems like a big turnoff right now. For current Barnard students, why do you like that about barnard and what are the pros that I might be missing?</p>

<p>thanks</p>

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<p>I am confused. You said (about Barnard)</p>

<p>
[quote]
when I visited I had a great experience.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>and then you said:
[quote]
I just visited, and I'm realizing it is more of a big deal than I had thought....The all-women's aspect just seems like a big turnoff right now

[/quote]
.</p>

<p>Do we assume you visited twice and the second more recent time you found the "all women" aspect of Barnard to be "a big turn-off"? What happened in the second visit that was a negative to you?</p>

<p>I am not a current Barnard student, so I don't want to presume to address your questions directly since you specifically asked for this. I would suggest, though, that until one responds you search previous posts. Try to find some by Primefactor...a thread she started about the Nine Ways of Knowing used to be featured here and may still be. Lots of excellent info there. This is perhaps the question most often asked about Barnard and many have addressed it here. </p>

<p>I can tell you that my daughter never once considered applying to an all-women's school. Barnard just hpappened to meet all the perfect specs for her. She is truly happy there and has found the place to be incredibly challenging and "nurturing" (but not in a soft, protective way; more in a "go out there and GET 'EM!!!" way) environment that does not "feel" single sex in any negative way...</p>

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<p>Is there a certain major you are especially interested in? pick schools based on academic interests, not social ones... you'll make friends wherever you go! PS: I'm a Tufts student who said no to Barnard (and Wellesley).</p>

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<p>When I visited over the weekend I honestly saw no distinct "all girls" atmosphere. There were men and women on both campuses, especially Monday, and I heard from every student that I talked to that it's not hard to have male or female friends.</p>

<p>I think if you don't care about whether the school is coed or not you should think about what else each school offers--career planning, advising, location, classes, etc.</p>

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<p>Sorry if I was unclear. The first time I visited I realized I liked it the school much more than I thought I had before visiting. I hadnt wanted to consider Barnard because it was single-sex but I had a great first visit and fell in love with the school. The second time, I went to a class, and saw more students around... and realized the single-sex nature of the school was more present and noticeable that I had previously realized, and began to doubt whether I wanted to be in that kind of environment, or would rather go to Tufts... Also, my host and her friends weren't very positive... so that definately changed my experience</p>

<p>lolabelle - I am really interested in english/writing. Barnard and Tufts both have great English departments, but I think Barnard would win in that competition. However, I'm not sure what I'll end up majoring in, other than that it will be something humanities-related</p>

<p>honied - I do care whether the school is co-ed or not. Right now I do not really see advantages to a single-sex education, but I'm trying to figure out what they are!</p>

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<p>okay, aube88: I searched and I could not find any of the great explanations that were on this board before, so I will take a stab at it (from the perspective of a parent of a very happy 2nd-year).</p>

<p>It is very cliche', but Barnard truly does present the best about co-ed and single-sex education. Like you, my daughter never even considered that there would be any advantages to the all women focus at Barnard, but she has found this environment to be both stimulating and nurturing. If that seems to be contradictory, than so be it. It's why Barnard is unique.</p>

<p>Secifics that I could immediately point out would be:</p>

<p>---women's health issues are obviously highlighted and dealt with in an excellent fashion;
---the expectations for women are set extremely high. You mentioned networking after school: I believe recent studies have shown that a large proportion of women who have been highly successful in their profession have come from an all-women's educational environment. Sorry I cannot quote the source of that for you, but I do recall reading that recently;
--I can only speak to my daughter's personal experience here, but I firmly believe that Barnard's curriculum (the nine ways) has lead her to a focus that she might never have considered in another educational environment. I also know that having the heads of departments that she is interested in greet her personally and offer to advise her is also a tremendous motivator. </p>

<p>I know you were advised above to sort of disregard the "single sex" aspect of Barnard in your decision. I understand where that advice comes from: though it has turned out to be an added "bonus" for my d's experience, it has not been the factor that defines her educational experience. The excellence of education and the tremendous faculty support and involvement has done it for her.</p>

<p>And she has plenty of friends on both sides of the street!</p>

<p>Best to you in making your decision. You have two very excellent choices.</p>

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<p>Here's the stuff I learned at student panels two days ago:</p>

<p>First of all, the administration is (obviously) totally focused on women. From what I hear, the environment is very nurturing and the admin is really there to help you. Getting internships and jobs in the city, while it may be slightly more difficult to do as a woman, is made much easier through the administration at Barnard.</p>

<p>Really great women's studies programs. I'm not going into college to study it, but I don't think I'd want to pass up the opportunity to get in on some interesting perspectives. Being of the female gender... I think it applies.</p>

<p>Single-sex housing --> cleaner dorms/bathrooms? Less distractions within your dorm walls? I don't know.</p>

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<p>Also, if you haven't read this yet, it may be helpful:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.barnard.edu/about/why.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.barnard.edu/about/why.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I, too, was wary of attending a women's college, but realized that Barnard certainly isn't a sterile environment (like some of the other women's colleges). I'm not quite sure whether the reason you would prefer a co-ed environment is related to friendship, dating, etc. or if you are simply wondering what sets Barnard apart, so I don't know if I could help there.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>aube, like Churchmusicdaughter, my d. is at Barnard in spite of it being single-sex, not because of of any perceived advantage. She loves men! Most of her very best new friends at Barnard have been men she has met this year, at Columbia and other colleges. I am sure that my d. would be quite pleased if Barnard suddenly announced it was going co-ed and could enroll men for the coming year.</p>

<p>That being said: I do think there is a value to the women's only environment, but I am not sure how to put it in words. There is simply a level of respect that the faculty and staff have for their students that isn't quite there in a co-ed institution -- a way that women are taken more seriously. I think there is a level of validation that goes on over the course of 4 years that builds confidence and leads to the woman expecting just a little bit more of herself. </p>

<p>So if you are looking for a reason to want an all-female environment, I can tell you that there is something to the idea. You will be surrounded by intelligent, capable, accomplished women - my daughter used the phrase "the air is electric" to describe the environment -- and I think it just tends to give you a bigger, broader sense of the possibilities in your own life. It is no longer a situation of looking at what the guys are doing and thinking, "girls can do this too" -- it becomes a situation of looking at what the women around you doing and thinking, "wow, these women are amazing, and I'm one of them". One is an environment in which you may feel you can strive for something, the other is an environment in which you feel like you are already there. </p>

<p>That being said -- if you are truly uncomfortable with the notion, then you have 2 great choices, and you should choose Tufts. I think Tufts provides a more traditional college campus experience, whereas Barnard is a one-of-a-kind experience that probably isn't for everyone. So I don't think you should look for reasons to rationalize one way or another. If Barnard is better for your academic goals, then choose Barnard; if not, then choose Tufts.</p>

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<p>thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful replies. I guess I'll have to do a lot of thinking over the next week! they're both great schools :)</p>

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<p>My daughter's also chosen it "in spite of." Since she has in fact chosen it, we're of course hoping that there are in fact actual benefits associated. </p>

<p>It seems like there might be some. When I read a lot of alumna posts they frequently say stuff like how nice it was to have experienced one situation in their lives where everything was for, and run by, women, and how empowering that was, in retrospect. </p>

<p>Places like Smith and Wellesley could instantly become hyper-selective colleges by going co-ed, yet they choose not to do it. Evidently their Trustees, and alumnae who have themselves been through it, see value to maintaining their mission.</p>

<p>There's a huge thread in the Smith sub-forum about "why Women's Colleges", with the usual CC distractions, you might check there.</p>

<p>Also it's correct, there have been related threads on this sub-forum; you should be able to find some by searching.</p>

<p>A way back when my daughter was going to ED I inquired about the M-F ratio, and Calmom pointed out that you are in NYC. We live just outside of NYC, and since that time my daughter has in fact had two dates, one recurring, that I know about with guys who she met on the train or the subway. Neither of these guys were college students, and I'm not real happy about either of them. But she was happy.</p>

<p>Ignoring the rest of NYC though, in isolation the Columbia community situation can't be all upside. Even assuming perfect mixing the ratio is 60-40 the wrong way. This is less than ideal, though for some reason many coed colleges seem to be similarly slanted these days. When I was in college a good number of the relationships were developed in the dorms more than the classrooms, and Barnard dorms are single sex.</p>

<p>Students who have posted here in the past didn't really have much problem with it though, with one exception I can recall.</p>

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<p>Actually, the fact that Barnard dorms are single-sex doesn't interfere with the ability to meet boys -- boys come and hang out at Barnard specifically because they think its a good place to meet girls. (It might be a little tougher next year with MacIntosh being shut down, as that was probably the ideal hanging-out place)</p>

<p>When I was there visiting, a bunch of drunken frat boys came to the quad and midnight and were "singing" for a long while, apparently a regular occurrence. See: <a href="http://community.livejournal.com/barnard/227010.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://community.livejournal.com/barnard/227010.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>( Now, if you want to meet intelligent guys.... maybe monydaughter's right to use the subway. ;) )</p>

<p>Anyway - I don't think it really is a matter of ratios -- many of the women who are there aren't interested in dating for various reasons. My d is in a long-term relationship with a guy in Boston, so she isn't looking to date -- and she has met guys who attend schools all over the city -- for example I know she has a very good male friend who attends CUNY.</p>

<p>But honestly - if you are picking a college for the dating scene... take another look at your safeties. Seriously - I think the dating scene on state university campuses is better than at any of the elites. My d. says that most guys at Columbia spend most of their time studying.</p>

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<p>You may not appreciate the women's college aspect until later in life. When I was at Barnard I took my freedom and privileges completely for granted. As long as women are earning 70 cents on the dollar for equivalent work, as long as women constitute less than 20% of US Congress, as long as 1 of 5 women experiences sexual assault....we need places that attend to the specific needs of women. When you're surrounded by formidable women 24/7--students, profs, administrators--it rubs off on you in unconscious ways. It normalizes women leaders who do not concede to demeaning stereotypes. I could go on and on, but believe me, the women's college thing meant nothing to me until I entered the work force and had kids. Now I'm so grateful for the formative years I spent with accomplished, courageous, free-thinking women at Barnard.</p>

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<p>well, here's something interesting:</p>

<p>24% of women in Congress and 30% of women CEOs of Fortune 1000 companies went to women's colleges. But only 2.5% of women overall go to women's colleges. <a href="http://me.essortment.com/benefitswomens_rtso.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://me.essortment.com/benefitswomens_rtso.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>By the way, I chose Barnard over Tufts as well... I had a hard time deciding too. I didn't want to go to a women's college, but it you add GS, CC, SEAS, and Barnard students together, CU is really only 60% women.</p>

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<p>Sharone.... I think those stats need to be viewed with a little bit of skepticism, taking into context the age of the women in Congress & CEO's, and which particular schools the women attended. That's because that until the 1970's, most of the Ivy's were male-only, and so the Seven Sister colleges, particularly Wellesley, Radcliffe, perhaps Smith & Vassar - had the elite overtones that are not attached for to Harvard, Yale, Princeton. In other words, those are the schools where the rich and well-connected sent their daughters to be educated. </p>

<p>So I don't know whether or not you would see the same dichotomy if you broke things out and looked at which decade the women had attended college... as well whether it is particular schools, like Wellesley, that seem most associated with "success" in terms of rise to prominence.</p>

<p>I'm not saying it is one way or another. I am just saying that when I was a teenager looking at colleges, if I had been looking for a prestige degree -- I would have targeted a Seven Sister.... but of course these days those highly motivated, prestige-conscious women may be getting their degrees from Harvard & Yale. The CEO's and political leaders still predominantly are products of that earlier time. For example, Hillary Clinton graduated from Wellesley in 1969. </p>

<p>I do think that a womens' college affords a great education, but I just don't know if we are going to see that pattern hold up for the next generation of women leaders.</p>

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<p>There are some great info, stats and opinions on the Facebook group "It's a WOMEN'S COLLEGE, not a girls' school": <a href="http://hs.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2205106444%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://hs.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2205106444&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>