Advice about enlistment/college

Student Lounge Veterans
1

<p>Hey all,</p>

<p>I am not actually a veteran, but I have a question for those who have served. I am a home-schooled student trying to determine the wisest path to take after I finish high school. Though I have every intention of attending college, I am severely limited in my options due to my parents' ideology. The only school we can agree upon is Ave Maria University, which I could probably attend for free. (SAT's: 2300.) Recently, though, I have considered the possibility of enlisting before college. This would allow me to gain some discipline and real world experience, ascertain what I actually want to study, and have many more education options open to me after I finish my term. (I would like to attend a more elite school.) Is this logic sound, or am I insane to turn down a full ride?</p>

<p>Thank you for any counsel, and--most of all--thank you for your service.</p>

<p>JRG</p>

2

<p>look into ROTC.</p>

3

<p>As a veteran getting ready to retire and finally get the chance to go back to school, it would be hard for me to turn down a full ride as well. Though all things being equal, your parents will actually be paying for your education… so its not “really” a free ride. If you are thinking that you would like to attend a school of your choice and pay for it yourself… join the Navy. You will be able to get the discipline and maturity that you speak of while earning the GI Bill and a paycheck at the same time -you can also go to school for free while enlisted. As MttBeau mentioned, ROTC is a great alternative also. You will agree to serve as an officer “commissioned” after you earn your degree at a participating college -a better option than enlisting even in my opinion. Have you thought about applying to any of the service academies?</p>

4

<p>Thanks for your responses–I really appreciate hearing different perspectives.</p>

<p>I have considered ROTC, but none of the schools my parents would probably let me attend have the program available. If that were not the case, it would be a great option.</p>

<p>As for the Service Academies, I don’t think I’m quite ready for them. It would be traumatic to be immersed in both the military and college lifestyle simultaneously, and I lack some of the science and math prerequisites for application. </p>

<p>SpunOne: Do you think the military helped you mature before college? And do you think it made you more competitive in college admissions? (Although I’m not stupid enough to enlist just to add another “EC” to my app, this was a matter of curiousity for me.)</p>

5

<p>Eumaeus, </p>

<p>The New GI bill is the way to go. My only real regret about joining the Army is that I waited so long to do it and staying in as long as I have (getting out with 5 years in). That said, if you are thinking about either the Marines or the Army do it because you want to be a Soldier or a Marine, not to escape whatever your current situation is otherwise the lifestyle will eat you up. You are smart enough that you should not have any issues getting a more intellectually demanding job (intel, CA, cartography, etc) if you don’t want to go down the combat arms route. I highly suggest enlisting with a job that requires you to get a security clearance. You may not need it after you get out but its a nice thing to have. Most of the interesting non-combat jobs require a clearance. If the recruiter tells you that you will have to wait on the clearance and maybe you should pick another job find another recruiter who will help you get what you want. Unless you have massive financial issues (which you probably don’t if you are only now about to graduate high school) you won’t have any issues getting a clearance but it does take a while. </p>

<p>Was it helpful to me getting into school? I honestly don’t know. I already had a few semesters of college work before I joined and have taken a few “college” classes while in the army so my app was already pretty strong. I say “college” because those classes were a joke. The schools that run the classes have no incentive to fail anyone because otherwise they have try and get the money for the class from the soldier. Of course, they charge exactly the max that the Army will pay which ends up being a month or so’s pay for a junior enlisted soldier. They are a joke. </p>

<p>If you are thinking about joining then you probably should. Rationalize it however you want to your family and friends but do it because you know in your heart that every morning when you put on that uniform and check it in the mirror you will be proud to be a Soldier/Airman/Marine. If you don’t think you will be than there are much easier ways to pay for college.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the advice, sailin84. It’s great to hear from someone who’s “been there, done that.”</p>

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<p>Hey Dude, I’ve been in the Marine Corps for 18 years. I work in the Avionic Department. At one point I was a drill instructor as well. It’s been a good experience overall but the military isn’t for everyone. One of the guys here mentioned not joining to escape your life because the lifestyle will eat you up. That is not true. That’s EXACTLY what I did and I flourished. I sucked in high school, I was broke, and my family would have ate peanut butter and jelly to send me to school; I chose an other path. I wanted to leave my hometown and have a job. So I joined the Corps. Best decision I could have made for an immature kid. I happened to score well on the test that determines what jobs you qualify for. Avionics was where I was sent. If you join I’d say get the best job you can get. Infantry is cool but all my cousin has to show for that lifestyle is a bad back, bad knees, bad ankles, and a several cool stories. None of which put money in his pockets now. I have nothing against infantry. That was my first choice until my recruiter guided me otherwise.</p>

<p>As for you, I would enlist in the Air Force (my fellow Marines cringe). Yeah ! I said it! Since you are focused on education, I’ll tell you why. When you go to any training school in the Air Force you are given credit through the Community College of the Air Force, of which is accredited. My entry level occupational training school was in an Air Force unit and I have one of those transcripts. The Navy and Marine Corps use a thing called a SMART transcript for their training schools. This is NOT a legit transcript. It is a SUGGESTION of what your training SHOULD correlate to in college whereas the Air Force’s transcript is from an accredited college. The colleges I looked at ignored my SMART and I have several Marine and naval schools on there. So if you got a job in electronics in the Air Force you will no joke have credits for a circuit analysis course. That’s the BIG difference between my Air Force transcript and my SMART (sorry about the acronymn) transcript. The Air Force is more off duty education friendly as well. I have several W’s on my off duty education transcripts due to military commitments as a Marine. I had a job to do and school came second. It’s part of who we are. I had to sacrifice as we all do. Now at the end of your first enlistment you’ll have the Post 9/11 GI Bill. You can’t beat that with a bat!!! You’ll be more mature and ready to eat those books like biscuits in college. I am not really a fan of ROTC. I don’t agree with playing military games while you are in college. Some of the military instuctors are less than professional due to lack of supervision. When you are in college you should focus on college. If you want to be an officer there are several ways to go about that. I say enlist, get a killer job, get your GI Bill and bounce to college at the end of your first term. If you decide you love the military, you can always go back. That’s what I’m stressing to my Marines now. Good luck in your decision.</p>

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<p>I guess I should have said if escape is the only reason you join it may be the wrong decision. That was one of the reasons I joined, just not the only one. If you end up disliking whatever job you get all you have to fall back on is that you like being a soldier/airman/marine/sailor. If you hate both you are SOL for the next few years. I can’t speak for the Air Force but every airman I know seems to love it. The living conditions on Pope are nicer than the ones on Bragg but the golf course is better on our side. </p>

<p>If you decide Army I would suggest:
Join with an MOS that requires a Top Secret security clearance, this will take a while so enjoy the summer and sign in August</p>

<p>While waiting for your clearance knock out as many college credits as you can at the local community college or take a semester at Ave Maria University. Those credits will come in handy once you start looking for promotion points.</p>

<p>Remember, basic training and AIT are not the Army and only Drill Sergeants are Drill Sergeants. Once you are out of basic life gets much better. That doesn’t mean screw around, just nobody will be supervising you during non-duty hours to make sure you behave. Don’t wuss out and try to get chaptered for some bs reason. The Army will hold you in AIT for months while you watch classes graduate and move on.</p>

<p>Until you make E-4 which takes 18 months to 2 years depending on both you and your unit realize your quality of life will depend on two things, your NCO’s and your ability to sham. Taking college classes is an important part of shamming. See what I wrote above, they’re not hard and will not take up a large amount of your time. Scheduled wisely you can be out of work by 1600 and playing 9 holes before class starts at 1800 five days a week. If it looks like you are studying at work, you will most likely be left alone and the soldier texting in the corner will be the one sent out to paint rocks or rake the woods (this really happens, don’t let it be you). Who looks better here, the soldier improving himself or the one out doing make work just to keep him busy? </p>

<p>An equally important part of shamming is never break the little rules, always be early, and take PT seriously. So many soldiers **** themselves over by constantly screwing up the little things or by being so out of shape they can’t pass PT tests. If you aren’t a problem for your NCO’s they generally won’t be a problem for you.</p>

<p>Learn the regs and look out for yourself because no one else will do it for you. If you need to get something done and your highers aren’t making it happen do what you have to. They may ***** about it because it makes them look bad but don’t worry, that’s their problem.</p>

<p>Do not get married just to get out of the barracks and/or impregnate a female soldier/skanky local girl/ base town stripper (I am not implying that female soldiers are skanks or strippers, just don’t get anyone pregnant). If you are actually in love do what you have to do, if not you just trapped yourself in the Army for forever.</p>

<p>If you do join, try and deploy as early as you can. A) because there may not be that many deployments left with the current political climate b) you actually get to learn your job c) privates don’t really earn any money so you might as well earn a little more and d) pretty much everyone that has been in for two years already will have deployed so get some stories of your own, that’s why you joined right?</p>

<p>Don’t buy a new car anywhere or a used car with in 50 miles of post. The new one will eat up your pay check and the dealers close to post will charge you crazy interest. USAA is your friend when it comes to buying a car.</p>

<p>Last but not least, if you KNOW you aren’t going to make a career out of the military remember that none of the Hoahh schools count for anything in the real world so don’t destroy your body for them. In three to four years nobody will give a damn how many jumps you did or how fast and far you can ruck but your knees and back will still be ****ed.</p>

<p>If I sound down on the Army I’m really not trying to be. It was the best decision I have made so far, but the ten month extension to deploy again probably wasn’t. I get out in 4 months and the last year has been disappointing personally and professionally so I’m just ready to get home and then out. I still think that if you are interested that you should join. At the worst you delay college by four years (in a soft MOS that probably is the worst, I won’t speak for the combat arms where much worse can happen even if its not likely).</p>

9

<p>As always, thanks for the input. What I’m gathering from these and other posts is this: if you get a good MOS, enlistment can be a great experience; if you’re stuck in a dead-end job, your service can be profoundly depressing. </p>

<pre><code>Regarding college courses during the service: one of the central tenets repeated by College Confidential users is “Transfer acceptance is much more competitive than freshman acceptance.” Will colleges make exceptions for veterans who took courses during their service?
</code></pre>

<p>(Or am I just being afflicted with CC acceptance neurosis…)</p>

10

<p>I don’t know about the transfer acceptance rates but I imagine if you are as qualified as someone who was accepted as a freshman you will do ok. I would think a fairly large percentage of the people applying for transfers have no chance (at the “elite” schools) just like most of the people applying as freshman have no chance. If you become a cook and take no classes and just coast through you won’t be very competitive; join Civil Affairs (the Army’s version of the peace corps, armed to the teeth) build schools in Afghanistan and knock out 30-60 credit hours of college credit then write a bad ass essay about building said schools while fighting off the enemy and the emotional tolls of combat and I think any admissions committee would take you pretty seriously.</p>

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<p>I’ve decided to enroll at Ave Maria in the fall, then look into admission to Service Academies or ROTC at other schools as a transfer student. Thank you for your advice, and for your service–I have a tremendous amount of respect for enlisted veterans, but, after listening to your and other testimonies, I’ve ultimately concluded it’s not the best course for me right now.</p>

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<p>Just so you know, you cannot really transfer to a service academy. You will do all four years of their program regardless of previous education. The only difference is you may be able to validate/test out of several courses.</p>