Advice for a strange situation

Applying to College
1

Looking for any advice folks might have out there …

Up through Middle School my daughter was a straight-A student and even recognized by the Duke TIP program. Unfortunately due to some serious personal challenges her grades dropped dramatically in high school. Nevertheless she has continued to take AP classes and has even placed out of a couple of classes through self-study during the summer (Algebra in Middle School, and Physics in High School). She just took the SAT and got a stellar score, MIT-qualifying kind of score. She is also excelling at two extra-curriculars, and moving into an instructor position in one of them.

My question is what to really expect and pursue in terms of colleges. She’s not even in the top 25% on grades. She is starting to look at colleges but I frankly have no idea what bracket to encourage her to concentrate on. None of the statistics I find online for admissions criteria help much since she is such an unusual case. I don’t want to get her hopes up applying to a bunch of top colleges when she has no chance of getting into them but I don’t want to cheat her by encouraging her to aim too low. And I don’t know if perhaps there is anything special I should be encouraging her to do before her senior year that could make a key difference to the admissions committees given the unusual situation (other than trying to get her to turn in her homework, obviously).

Any advice is appreciated.

2

There is no such thing as an “MIT-qualifying kind of score”. We would need to know her SAT score, GPA, both weighted and unweighted, and EC’s to give options.

3

Perfect or near perfect test scores can create some wiggle room for lower gpas, though there is likely to be a floor in terms of how low the gpa can go. So yes, as the prior post noted, more specifics about actual unweighted gpa and class rank, as well as scores, will help folks here make informed suggestions that will be useful.

The rap on high scores, low gpa is that it looks like a lazy or careless student – someone with great ability who failed to maximize it in high school. So, if there were health, family, or other challenges happening that would put it in context, addressing it in the application, preferably by the GC, can alleviate that concern. Or the student could explain it, briefly, without whining or casting blame, in the “Other things you want to tell us” section of the Common App.

An upward trend in junior year and continuing into senior year helps show admissions that the student has turned the corner, particularly when faced with the more challenging classes of 11th and 12th grade. So to the extent possible, encourage her to squeeze out the maximum points in her current classes.

Some schools have a reputation for loving high test scores. Wash U in St Louis is one, but would still not go too low in an acceptable gpa range. Some test optional schools might love those great scores, and be willing to give some room on the gpa. Some public flagships which are excellent schools may look heavily at test scores. University of Wisconsin is a school I know well, and out of state applicants with very high test scores might get some flexibility in the unweighted gpa, but the gpa still probably could not go below a 3.5. Some schools do not look at 9th grade grades, others on CC would have to help identify them, so if that was a particularly rocky year, including schools which only look at 10-12th, might be helpful.

At the end of the day, the advice here on CC tends to be, “love the kid on the couch” – forget about TIP and middle school, and focus on building a reasonable list based on her current portfolio, including her current gpa.

4
  1. Decide if and how to explain the grades to colleges. Should your child write about it herself, or is it better to have the counselor do it? Is there a clear upward trend in grades and course rigor where you can argue that the problems are in the past, or will these challenges be ongoing? Some problems (drug overdoses, mental health) can be real red flags for admissions where you might seek professional advice on exactly how to proceed. Your high school guidance counselor can advise as well, of course. If you explain her problems, you may raise a red flag. If you don't explain, the colleges will take their own best guess as to what might have happened. (The "smart but lazy" rap mentioned above.)
  2. Expect grades to be weighted more heavily than test scores by most colleges. Dozens of colleges have gone test optional. None have gone transcript/GPA optional. That last comment about it turning in homework is an issue -- will her teachers writing letters say she is an engaged and hard-working student despite her challenges or does she seem not to care?
  3. Apply to safety and match schools first, then add reaches if your daughter is interested in highly challenging environments like MIT. She may or may not be interested, and that is fine. Prestige and educational quality are not the same thing, and she should go where she will be comfortable and happy and in the type of environment where she will do her best. Remember to consider finances as well as academic fit. Using rolling admissions or early action to get some early acceptances in the bag before trying schools that are reaches makes a lot of sense. Having an acceptance letter in your back pocket before trying schools that reject many more students than they accept may make the sting of rejection a little easier.
5

What does she want to study? What are the scores, and weighted & unweighted GPA? We can make suggestions with that info.

6

Colleges want kids who can succeed…a great SAT score is wonderful, but if they cannot get good grades an MIT is not going to take a look.

  1. Try to get the personal situation under control Get medical/mental health/counseling if necessary. Has she been evaluated for ADHD or anything?
  2. Figure out if non-AP classes that she can do well in might be better than AP classes, or does she prefer the challenge of AP classes.
  3. Do you have Naviance at her HS? Can she put in the SAT/GPA in to see what would match? or you can use the College Search here on CC?
  4. Would it be better that she be closeish to home for the support?
  5. What does her GC think?
  6. Make sure the ECs are not taking the place of academics…ECs are a plus, but Academics/SAT are the top criteria.
    Can you use the love of ECs to motivate her to make sure homework is turned in? Can you work with teachers/parent portal to keep up with homework?
  7. If she goes to a not as competitive school…she may rise to the top and be able to work with professors and go on to grad school.
7

For my students with similar stats (I’m a private college consultant), I encourage them to have a broad list of schools including some real safeties. GPA is very important to schools. Yes, there’s some wiggle room, particularly with an upward trend in GPA and some hooks, but keep in mind that your D will be going up against kids with perfect GPAs and no “blips”. She needs to be prepared to tell her story well, and have some killer letters of recommendation (including her counselor) that speak of her extraordinary academic abilities and personal qualities, including the ability to be an overcomer.

College admissions to top schools gets tougher each year. It’s fine to have some reach schools on her list, but match and safety schools will be critical.

There’s so much more to say on this topic, but you need to be realistic with a lower GPA. College Board Big Future does have some stats on GPA. MIT does not have the breakdown of admit by GPA stats, though it shows 97% of admitted students are in the top 10% of their class. Here are some other stats:

http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats

Don’t squash her dreams, but don’t be unrealistic when it comes to building a list of schools.

8

Before you as a parent get to excited about all this. Sit down with whoever is going to help your daughter pay for her education, and get real about the money. Can you shell out upwards of $80,000 each year for four years (and yes, there will be several in that range by the time your kid applies)? Can you only scrape together $5,000 a year? Then the kid will need serious aid. Run the Net Price Calculator at the website of your home state public U, your own Alma Mater, and a few other places. See what each of those places thinks you can pay.

High test scores and bad classroom grades can be a giant waving red flag for learning issues in the executive function/ADHD range, so if there is any chance that is part of her problem, do her a big favor by getting that under control before she leaves high schoo.

9

She isn’t that unusual, high test scorers that don’t do the work for GPA are far from uncommon. What was her score and what is her grade in school now? As above, there is no MIT qualifying score.

10

Rather than pondering “how high do we aim?” a more appropriate question might be “is she ready for college?” Away from home at any college, let alone a competitive one, she’s going to be responsible for going to class and doing the work. If, reading between the lines here, she only turns in her homework when you hound her on it what is going to happen at college?

11

I agree with badgolfer – the first priority should be getting her healthy and being sure she has the tools to deal with personal challenges you alluded to, should they occur again. It sounds as if she may not be out of the woods if you are still involved in making her turn in her homework.

12

Slightly more practical consideration - mayble look at large public schools with good honors programs. There are programs that she may be able to enter as she demonstrates her abilities in college.

13

Your daughter is unique and special, but her situation is actually extremely common. Colleges really only care about high school acheivements. She isn’t the same now as she was in middle school, and that’s ok. Conventional wisdom here on CC is that if her personal problems were as a result of mental health issues, it’s best not to draw attention to those problems.

You are new to CC, but those of us who have been here for a while have seen many situations like your daughter’s. There are so many kids that do have valid reasons for their less than perfect grades, but a lot of those reasons aren’t really what colleges like to hear. Colleges don’t necessarily want to accept students with past mental health issues because they know that, unless these issues have been under control for a while, they could come back. An unstable student costs the college money, or lost revenue, if they can’t cope. Sometimes they don’t want to take a risk. It doesn’t mean your child can’t get into college. It might mean that it could be best to have her apply to schools where her grades are on par or above the middle 50%.

You need to carefully consider if it’s best for your daughter to bring up such issues, or apply to the right range of schools from the outset. I personally know two young men who had b/c averages but very high test scores. Both were accepted to all kinds of colleges and given very attractive merit awards. We don’t know what your child’s mitigating circumstances are, so this isn’t definitive. A child with medical health issues, or extremely fraught family situations should of course consider providing information about it and a counselor should corroborate the information.

14

Apply to a very broad set of schools. Make sure you have at least one safety you can afford, she is assured of getting into and would be HAPPY to attend. Then let the dice fall where they may.

15

The threshold question is whether she’s interested in competing for admission to a highly-selective institution. Not everyone is. Don’t force it on her. She will probably be fine at a decent state school or moderately-selective private college.

If she does want to maximize her admissibility at highly-selective colleges, then the best thing for her to do right now is uncork a load of As in her current classes, then give a repeat performance Fall semester 2018. This will establish an upward trend that will put her record in a better light. Selective colleges are sometimes forgiving, to varying degrees, of less-than-perfect grades, if there is an upward trend to show that the student is back on track.

It’s up to her. If she wants it, she’s going to have to put her rear end in the chair, pull up to the desk, and earn it.

16

I would check in with your daughter and suggest a very different approach.

  1. If you think she is ready for college, I might have her do a gap year. Go to Europe for a year and study ( they love test scores esp in some nations England ), do something that will build on her interests/possible majors. She would return being able to write essays on why she was a late bloomer or about how she is ready now due to xyz. If it is the right program, I think they will weigh her hs grades much less.
  2. If she is not really ready then I would split the program. Have her do something productive and interesting and take just 1-2 classes at a good local school or do interesting thing and then school in Summers.
  3. I would hesitate before sending my kid to a school that isn’t a good fit because she had some rough grades. If part of the reason she hit a bump was due to being bored you’d go one way and if it was due to other factors, you’d go another.
  4. Some were not too polite re: MIT scores. But if she is 99.99% and has also won national/international awards then she actually might be MIT material. Do the math ( pun intended). Are we talking 1 in 10,000 smart or got 1500 SAT’s? Because there is a REAL difference. If she is 1 in 1,000 then yes, a different approach is needed. Also, some small programs can be really great.
  5. She can tutor if she has perfect or near perfect SAT scores. ( the $ is great). If she is self motivated, a year of doing something really great that includes building something worthwhile can cancel out some low grades. But if she isn’t a self motivated kid and/or the issues are related to personality/mental health, I think the road will be much tougher.
    Good luck to her.
17

As mentioned above, splitting the test scores and grades throws a flag for Admissions folks. And while hard work can overcome poor testing skills, it’s also true that whatever is driving the poor grades can (and is) overcoming the smarts that produced the high test scores. Don’t worry about explaining it to schools yet, rather think about answering the question for your own purposes first.

You’re a bit vague on the specific reasons your DD is not getting good grades. Your next step hinges on why that is and if you have any reason to believe it’ll be different in college. If it’s effort, if it’s side effects from her prescriptions, if it’s from not taking her prescriptions, if it’s physical problems, whatever the reason, you need to ask yourself how things will change in two years with you not there playing your current role. Is this an effort or maturity thing that DD will have to do on her own, or a more permanent situation that she’ll need to adjust to? Ca/Will she make the adjustments? Be honest.

So then what? Lots of suggestions above, but if things are going to be like this then rough grades in high school are going to be worse at a top school. If homework is only getting done with you standing there then it’s going to be worse with you far away. If you can find a way to justify taking a chance on a highly ranked school then go ahead, but with no specific insight beyond what’s in this thread I would couch this discussion with my child in terms of what her grades will get her rather than what her test scores would. If you pick a large enough school there will be head room for her to rise if her performance merits it, but if you manage to get into a top school the floor can be awfully high for any kids having difficulty.

18

There are also some students who wait several years before applying to college. They come at it from a different vantage point. I know some parents worry the kids will never go, but this is also an option. It could save her from going and not doing well and dropping out vs. finding out what she needs to go and then going and being very successful. There are worse things than graduating from college at 26-30.

19

Can you be more precise?
What GPA, unweighted and weighted? What sat score? Any subject scores?
What’s your budget and how does it relates to EFC?
What type of problems (mental health, bullying, becoming a bully, cyber addiction, drugs…? Or just burn out /refusal to turn in homework?)
Some schools, like Pitt or Vanderbilt, prioritize scores over GPA.
Then she should apply to schools like the CTCL schools, expressing interest right now (especially the top end ones like Reed, Whitman, St Olaf…)
Finally your flagship universities /and honors colleges should be looked at as a priority.

20

I think the OP’s left the building