Advice for disastrous alumni interview

Parents Forum
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<p>Wow! This sounds more like a stereotypical alumni interview my college classmates and I would joke you’d get from Oberlin(our alma mater), Antioch, and/or Wesleyan…schools which personified “lefty political correctness” during the '90s and satirized by the movie PCU. Surprised you’d get this degree of stereotypical “PC” from an Ivy alum interviewer…with the possible exception of Brown. </p>

<p>Another possibility was the alum’s efforts to grill your son hard because engineering schools/majors tend to have gender imbalance with many more males than females. Maybe it was the alum interviewer’s way to “even the balance”.</p>

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<p>“HS counselor who advised him to call the university admission office to relay concerns about the questions and the behavior of the interviewer.”</p>

<p>Your counselor is right. After the admissions decision (which may be deny or waitlist) will be too late. “Better safe than sorry” doesn’t apply in this context – how is it safe to allow a possibly biased or unfair review to remain in the student’s file?</p>

<p>What area of the country are you in?</p>

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<p>D considered one of her Ivy interviews “catastrophic”. It was slightly over 3 hours long and mainly involved having to defend, not discuss, defend, every point on her resume. The interviewer’s freshman daughter (from same HS) was there and D felt interviewer was trying to coach the daughter on what her resume should be like. After consulting some friends who also do alumni interviews for the school as to whether this was normal approach and being told it was not…we decided not to complain to the school about this. We took a different tack – we did contact the school, mention we would be in town (it is an overnight trip from our home) and asked for an interview in the admissions office while she was in town. That interview went extremely well. The irony, in June, I ran into the interviewer who told me what a glowing report they wrote about D.
IF you do decide to report the interviewer, which in your case I might consider doing, you should ask your Guidance Counselor to do so otherwise you might come off as overly defensive.<br>
Good Luck to your son. The GFG – D’s other Ivy interview felt like she was meeting a new friend. They had an hour long deep interesting conversation. I don’t agree arrogance, or attacking the student, is the rule.</p>

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<p>We’re been discussing bad interviews over on the Brown forum – including some that sound even worse than the OP. </p>

<p>Students and parents think that reporting an inappropriate interview will hurt their chances of acceptance. I think that handled the right way, this shouldn’t happen. I know that at Brown, the interviews are considered a way for Brown to represent itself to applicants, and I would think the school would want to know about a really poor interviewer. </p>

<p>I don’t know how this works at other schools, but at Brown interviews are handled by the alumni office and not admissions, so the complaint would probably never make it to the admissions folder.</p>

<p>I guess there are two reasons to report a bad interview. One is personal – so that admissions is made aware of a poor write-up that came from a bad interviewer. The other is systemic – so the university can remove a bad interviewer from the system.</p>

<p>As an alumni interviewer, who works really hard to put students at ease and ask appropriate questions, I am really troubled to hear of interviewers who feel like it’s their job to antagonize and embarrass students, or interviewers who never ask any questions and just talk about themselves, or interviewers who insist on knowing the other schools on the list – etc. I want those alumni volunteers erased from the databank. So I do think it is OK to report a truly disastrous interviewer, to “pay it forward” to future applicants.</p>

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<p>Same here. This is a disaster for the school, not just the applicant. If the interviewer was really off base, they need to know, and it’s never the student’s fault.</p>

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<p>I third fireandrain and Hanna. If your S reports it NOW, it will not hurt him. If he gets denied and reports it, it will be seen as sour grapes. </p>

<p>Years ago, a girl at my kid’s high school has an interview in which an Ivy alum said some rather non-PC things. He “went off” about a small diamond in her nose. He saw it as “body piercing” and said what he thought about young women who would do that. She was South Asian and the small diamond was NOT some act of rebellion on her part. She explained this, and the interviewer then waxed on about “you people.” [This was not Brown, BTW. ]</p>

<p>The GC called the college, with the girl’s permission. It turned out that there had been a similar complaint from a South Asian a couple of years earlier. The alum had been called and denied making any such remarks. The first complaint had come after a denial and the kid who was rejected had called and ranted at the admissions office. </p>

<p>The alum was pulled. The girl was offered another interview. She got in. </p>

<p>Seriously, I really, truly believe that it’s the rare kid who has the guts to complain who gets a STAR next to his/her name; these are the kids top colleges want. I do NOT mean they want whiners, but a legitimate problem should be reported NOW.</p>

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<p>OP, your son’s experience was awful and how you tell him to handle it will be a lesson that stays with him for a long time. I would definitely contact admissions - not to <code>complain’ but to make them aware of</code>a very unusual interview experience’ that they probably would want to know about. And speaking up will make your son feel less like he was abused by someone in authority and had to take the abuse because he was powerless. It’s a bad message for him to internalize.</p>

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<p>No, but, IMO–YMMV–a kid who purports to give a strong, definitive answer as to what (s)he wants to do in life SHOULD have a valid reason for that answer. The answer in this case was NOT a valid reason IMO–again, YMMV. There are LOTS of possible majors for students who like math and science. The answer doesn’t explain why the student wants to major in bio-medical engineering. There are a couple of Ivies which are trying to attract wannabe engineers. If this was one of them, the alum may have been trying to probe the sincerity of interest in that field. </p>

<p>There is a perhaps apocryphal story of the young man from “Nowhereville High” who said that he wanted to major in geology. He wrote his essay about his love for geology and how he spent a lot of his time out searching for specimens (which explained how few formal ECs he participated in. ) Now geology was a very undersubscribed major at the college and it had a very strong geology department. So, a kid from a rural area who had a strong interest in geology was definitely going to stand out in the pool. </p>

<p>The story goes that the interviewer was a doubting Thomas. He went to the local strip mall which had one of those science museum-type shops. He bought several rock specimens of very common types which were labeled on the bottom. He brought them to the interview and asked the applicant to identify the specimens. The applicant could not identify a single one. </p>

<p>The kid was rejected. It’s probable that if he had been able to ID them, he would have been admitted. </p>

<p>You may think the interviewer–if he really existed and it isn’t just a legend-was unfair. I don’t. </p>

<p>It’s FINE with me if an applicants says he doesn’t know what he wants to major in and has no idea what he wants to do. However, when a kid tells me he wants to major in something very specific or follow a very specific career path, I feel perfectly ethical asking why. If the applicant has good, well thought out reasons, I’m impressed. If he doesn’t, I’m not.</p>

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<p>I agree with those who say that the school should be notified (in an appropriate manner.) My H is an alumni interviewer and in a million years I could not imagine him having an exchange like this with a student. His role is both to find out information about the student and also to be a source of information about the school for the student. He always tries to put the kids at ease and I think he does a good job with that. It is not meant to be an interrogation or confrontational (which is how I perceive your description.)
I think quomodo’s suggestion of how to approach this is a good one (if your GC won’t intervene.) And, in response to someone else - I don’t think this should just be chalked up as a bad interview. My S had a “bad interview” on campus at an Ivy, by a student interviewer. The interviewer didn’t have good interpersonal skills, didn’t make eye contact, read questions off a list, etc.; this caught my S off guard and it threw him. That’s one that I’d chalk up as a bad interview; the OP’s situation is really inappropriate.</p>

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<p>I would be interested to learn how the “conversation turned to religion.” Unless your son is applying to a religious university like Liberty or Yeshiva, or is planning to take a degree in theology, I would think that even discussing this subject would be inappropriate in a college interview. The interviewer’s confrontational questioning about what God would think about his studying biomedical engineering was way, way out of line. I would contact the admissions office pronto about this, and request another interview with someone else.</p>

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<p>So I interviewed with an interviewer from a top 10 and he was, frankly, an arrogant jerk – and indeed known to be so by our GC who hears the complaints of other kids who interview with this guy. He is a doctor, makes you wait an hour, and then sees you for less than 15 minutes (typical doctor behavior, right?). We were all so proud when one of our classmates interviewed with him and put him down. The doctor asked, “So, I’m interviewing 15 applicants, what makes you better than any of them?” The friend, not to be intimidated, replied, “I don’t have time to waste on foolish questions,” got up and stalked out. Love that guy!</p>

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<p>In response to #30 where the poster wonders how the conversation turned to religion. I can easily see this happening , eg if the student’s ECs were church based, to take an obvious example. In that case, I think attempting a disucssion as to how an interest in biomedical engineering fits in with the student’s faith is perfectly acceptable. I would expect any candidate to a top flight college to be able to articulately engage in such a discussion.</p>

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<p>Son had a horrible Harvard alumni interview.</p>

<p>To break the ice, son asked her if she were related to a student at nearby school. Interviewer responded affirmatively, but stated that her family does not talk to this girl or her family. She also berated my son for not applying to Columbia.</p>

<p>Did not call the school to complain. No “helicopter” interference by us… just calls if absolutely necessary to to gain info. Son was happy to go elsewhere. (Not admitted.)</p>

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<p>Disagree. ABsolutely none of the interviewer’s, or the college’s, business. He is manufacturing, with no basis, that there might be a conflict–and again, whether there is or not is between the student and his conscience. No one else.</p>

<p>My S’s Ivy interview consisted of asking him, if he had a 100 dollars, what he’d do for a day in the city it was located in. I assume because lots of people like the idea of the city but don’t really know much about it. I think they talked about jazz a lot, too, since S mentioned it in the context of the preceding question and his interests/EC’s, though music wasn’t something he planned to study. There was no sense of gotcha or intimidation, and S found the guy to be quite friendly and supportive. He called several times for more information and to congratulate him when he got in. Really, really nice guy.</p>

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<p>It is one thing to probe in an interview,but the tone of this sounds adversarial. Even if the kid said something like “guys study math and science”, to go off on the kid is the sign of someone with anger management issues (for the record, if an interviewee said that to me, my response would be “I heard you say that guys study engineering and math…if i heard you right, why do you feel that?”). </p>

<p>Likewise, the religious question might be a valid one, in the sense that some things a biomed engineer might have to do could violate religious precepts. For example, someday there may be the ability to clone body parts or create organs using embryonic stem cells, or genetic manipulation may become practical to cure diseases caused by genetics, but also could be used to, for example, choose the sex or eye color or whatever of the child (a la the movie gattica). If the question was something like “how would you reconcile your faith and beliefs with areas where their might be conflict with let’s say embryonic stem cell use”, it isn’t hostile, it could be testing if the kid thought about such issues and about seeing how he responds, since in real life a biomed engineer might have to face such a thing. It would be no different then asking someone who expressed an interest in bio med “how would you handle a situation, as a bio med engineer, if you are working for a company that does genetic work, and you are asked to work on developing a way to choose the sex of the child, its intelligence, height, etc. that you find morally questionable?”. It is about thought processes, about a real world situation…</p>

<p>the way it was portrayed in the OP, though, it sounded quite frankly degrading, like the person assumed this was some ‘hick’ kid or ‘bible thumper’ or whatever, and that is not appropriate, this is not supposed to be marine boot camp. </p>

<p>My advice was if you feel it was really off the map, to have your son call the admissions office and talk to them about what went on. Not angrily, or saying ‘the guy was a jerk’, but what I would recommend is saying “I had an interview with an alumni that I felt was antagonistic and inappropriate, and I wanted to talk to someone about it, to either see if maybe I am overreacting, or if not, that the school is made aware the interviewer may not be a good choice to represent the school”. By doing so, you don’t come off as someone off the deep end, since you are admitting it could be miscommunication, and that you are worried that the school as well as yourself will be affected by someone representing them. In my experience (which is not exactly broad based) admissions people tend to take their jobs seriously, and they are pretty sensitive to what happens during the admissions process and how they are represented, and would probably be grateful that someone gave feedback in a professional manner. Anyway, that is my take, hopefully it will help.</p>

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<p>“I think attempting a disucssion as to how an interest in biomedical engineering fits in with the student’s faith is perfectly acceptable.”</p>

<p>It’s one thing to ask about a student’s church-related activities that are listed on his application (“Tell me about your mission trip to Guatamala”), quite another to discuss specific beliefs. Totally inappropriate, IMO, unless the student is going to attend a school with an overt religious culture (Notre Dame, Oral Roberts, Yeshiva, Liberty, etc).</p>

<p>It is illegal to ask this kind of question of job applicants unless the job is with an organized church. Shouldn’t this hold for college interviews, too?</p>

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<p>A number of posters have made similar comments, but I don’t think it’s fair. The kid could have had a detailed explanation of his interest in bio-medical engineering, but he was only able to get the first sentence out of his mouth before he was attacked by the interviewer. The interviewer is a jerk and has no business doing alumni interviews. He/she should definitely be reported before the admission decision comes out.</p>

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<p>I think it’s perfectly acceptable for the GC to call or for the OP to call considering the alumni status and express an opinion. On the other hand I can take the long view and say it is entirely possible that the interviewer has the type of personality where he/she challenges in conversations. Presumably this was a conversation between a highly intelligent younger person and a highly intelligent older person - intellectual equals… so the tone of questioning the concept of biomedical engineering and religion could conceivably been a probing or challenging question. Some interviewers are warm/fuzzy and other interviewers like to grill. Some high school seniors groove on being challenged and others aren’t as secure in their debate powers. Also, if the interviewer was of a certain age academia WAS about challenging. We challenged profs, they challenged us…huge debates all the time…that’s not so much the tenor these days with young people so I hear from friends in academia, but perhaps the interviewer was older and of that generation. The OP’s son may encounter this type of personality as he moves through life in the classroom, socially or in the workplace. Whether it is “right or wrong” I can’t tell since we’re only privy to snippets of the entire conversation. And I’m already on record saying that if he made a stereotype “guys” comments I would have nailed him. I’d nail my boys if they made tossed out generalizations.</p>

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<p>Interesting. I felt the Brown interviewer was very unprofessional. In the end, Brown did not offer him admission but he loves the college he is attending, so it all worked out in the end. </p>

<p>However, it was frustrating as he had put so much work into that application and really loved Brown. Then the interviewer spent five minutes on the phone with him and complained about how many interviews she still had to do.</p>

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<p>Call the school and explain the situation and request a new interview with a different interviewer. Unless the interviewer is real new, I bet this is not the first complaint they’ve had about her. </p>

<p>My D1 began interviewing for her Ivy school this year (she graduated in '08), and I can’t imagine such a conversation taking place. Nor does she (based on what she’s told me) try to “challenge” the candidates and knock them off guard. What she is looking for is someone who would fit well in the school - someone who is engaged, energetic, interested, and full of thoughtful opinions. Also she looks for someone who appears to be telling the truth about who they are rather than feeding her a line. Thus, if she asks what books did you read last year for fun instead of for a class and the candidate says “Aristotle,” she’s going to reply 'No, really - what did you read for FUN?"</p>