<p>Suggestions look great here. Just a note; short intense tutoring is usually very effective in raising SAT math scores. Might be worth a try. Also do watch out for the schools like Vassar, Goucher, Ct college that are predominantly female and artsy, as she will have a lot company like her on the app front which will make those schools more selective for her. Also are costs and aid going to be issues?</p>
<p>Cornell is way to big, from what the OP said...</p>
<p>I strongly suggest Vassar. It's close enough to NYC.</p>
<p>This would be a real safety and you don't see it much here on cc: But, Hofstra on Long Island. Film, theatre, communications... Lovely, relatively contemporary campus. They like to tout that Francis Ford Coppola went there, as well as several now-CEOs of big entertainment cos. Strong connections with Manhattan's entertainment industry.</p>
<p>I think the idea of using New York as the center of the circle is good. We were in a similar situation (overseas, had to start somewhere). Your daughter has very good scores and good grades. That plus her international experience would make her a strong candidate (though of course not guaranteed) for any LAC. My suggestion would be to visit as many as you can. Dont over eliminate (except by geography) at this point. I think it is especially important to see all three A/W/S. The overlap between these schools is greater than you would imagine. Your daughter should visit many and then decide which tradeoffs she is willing to make, since theres no single school that fits ALL of her wish list.</p>
<p>I will say again that stereotypes and distant impressions often change radically when you have feet on the ground. Its too early to eliminate. I also wouldnt worry too much about whats a match and whats a safety. Just visit as many as you can sanely then revise and focus.</p>
<p>The schools that I would recommend that you visit would be
North & West of New York: Amherst, Hamilton, Holyoke, Middlebury, Skidmore, Smith, Wellesley, Wesleyan, Williams,
In/Near New York: Barnard, Sarah Lawrence, Vassar
South of New York: Haverford, Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr</p>
<p>Thats 15. After visiting she will have a good comparison and will be able to form a sensible short list.</p>
<p>The schools on momrath's list are great but it doesn't sound as though the OP's daughter is going to be quite in the AWS league even with the blingual expat hook; I'd enocurage her to look more to the groupings offered by SBmom and Carolyn. Of course it is nice to visit all these wonderful schools but if time is a factor (not to mention proximity to a large city and maybe a major airport), it's importan to visit some of the more realistic reaches and matches.</p>
<p>I know this is outside of the geographic range but it's still worth a look. Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Oregon. During our admissions presentation there they made a point of saying that they attract quite a few of what they call "Third Culture Kids" - kids with US Citzenship that have grown up overseas. In fact, they even have a club on campus for them! L&C has an excellent English program as well, and my daughter loved the proximity to Portland but a campus that felt like it was in the mountains. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Carolyn,
Just to clarify the terminology..."third culture kids"(TCK) is a term to describe kids who grow up outside their "home" culture (the culture of their passport), but not entirely immersed in the culture(s) in which they live. IT is said they are of a"third culture"-- and in many ways these kids have more in common with other Third Culture kids who have grown up in entirely different places than they do with the kids who share their passport designation (for example). </p>
<p>Since in the case of the OP's child, like mine and Momrath's, presumably, everyone thinks by looking at them and listening to them they are "American" they are in a unique situation referenced to "Internationals" whom others do not assume are American. The peers of the TCKs will expect them to "get" cultural references, remember experiences or events-- that are unfamiliar to them. The global upbringing and perspective is just different, and it is important that they give consideration to this as they consider colleges.</p>
<p>"it doesn't sound as though the OP's daughter is going to be quite in the AWS league even with the blingual expat hook"</p>
<p>Maybe for S, but less so for W & A (just guessing of course, who knows?) My son's scores/grades were not too far from the OP's daughter. (Second that suggestion to try to get the math score up!) LACs really like third culture kids who can bring international experience to the community but don't have visa issues. I would consider this a strong hook.</p>
<p>My point is more that they should visit as many as possible and that I'd support the strategy of focusing geographically as a starting place. This is not to say that colleges in other parts of the country aren't wonderful. It's just that with limited time resources, she can find a range of schools that offer most of her requirements within the 4 hours from New York radius. I can't think of a single school that fulfills everything that the OP's daughter would like. She should visit as many as she can and then decide what her priorities are.</p>
<p>Kids at all colleges commute home by airplane -- whether they're going to the nether coast or another continent doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Transportation is available. Again, this is a plus column item but not necessarily a deal maker.</p>
<p>I'm less inclined to think that having other third culture kids at hand is critical. What was most gratifying for my son was being in an environment with curious and supportive kids who are interested in his experiences as growing up abroad and also welcoming to him in their 100% American lifestyles. A warm and nurturing community is essential to a kid whose family is far away (and comforting to the parents as well).</p>
<p>Of the many good suggestions I like Skidmore and Connecticut College the best. Maybe Kenyon if she likes what she sees on the website and is willing to go outside her identified territory. Conn College is a bit on the preppy side and Kenyon has a small frat scene, though.</p>
<p>As the parent of a Williams alum (I enjoy your current-parent enthusiasm, momrath), I know that admissions is a quirky game and that one year's admit is another's deferral or denial (or vice versa, of course). So all I can do is reiterate my encouragement to stay within the general preference boundaries the OP originally expressed and to keep an open mind about admissibility. There are lots of great options out there to go along with the great applicants.</p>
<p>Like mattmom said, admissions is a quirky game. Kids with a score of 1300 might be picked over someone with a 1600. It's very unpredictable. I think your daughter's scores are good enough to at least give it a try (to the schools momrath mentioned.) You never know...</p>
<p>Raising the SAT math score isn't realistically an option . Achieving a 620 was already the result of considerable prep and hard work for a math-challenged student.
I agree with Momrath about the need for "a warm,nurturing community" and curious open-minded American kids.</p>
<p>Also not sure that just scraping into a very highly selective and competitive school would be the right environment for D.</p>
<p>Do you all think that most kids are happier at schools where they are near the middle range in academic abilities?</p>
<p>Bard vs. Sarah Lawrence: my D and I didn't make it Sarah Lawrence (got lost at the end of the exit, and never bothered boing once we found the highway again, since it was low on her list)--but Brad has a science side as well. My sister got her master's in ecology there (early 90s); they have an excellent reputation for original research for undergrads. </p>
<p>One key difference with Bard from many of the schools on your list: they have a lower graduation rate, IMHO because they require a senior project (thesis). Very few colleges still require a thesis of all students (Reed is another one), and those that do have a lower graduation rate and a higher transfer-out rate.</p>
<p>Did I miss something? Is your D only interested in LACs? Her scores are fine for a shot at the Ivy League (depending on her essays and so on) as well. (I do know people who got into Harvard with those scores. Recently.) And is New England the goal?</p>
<p>pyewacket, I think kids vary in where they feel most comfortable. Some may want to be in the middle of the pack at a top school, others may prefer a more relaxed environment and want to be able to shine in a setting where there isn't quite so much pressure. I would say that minem with pretty conventional suburban backgrounds, like to be in the lower top or upper middle; that is, they like to feel that they are surrounded by their peers and that their hard work is being recognized. I think my younger child was in the upper quarter of admitted students (though not at the top of that quarter) while my older child was probably a bit lower than that, maybe right in the middle. </p>
<p>Short of finding oneself in a school for which one has been academically unprepared (not enough writing experience, poor study skills, or an inflexible math or science requirement for kids who have no interest in either field and really struggle with numbers), I think most good students can do at least middling well at most schools and be happy there. Fit is so much more than academics. And of course the degree to which a student needs to excel in college also varies. (If the goal is graduate or professional school the ability to maintain a substantially good GPA becomes more important, though if the school's reputation is rigorous enough a 3.3 or 3.4 will likely be sufficient at least for law and grad school.)</p>
<p>Community environment is more important than whether it is LAC or not. (I'm the one with a bias toward LACs, not D.) As for Ivy League, we will be visiting Brown in spring, where there is a legacy connection.</p>
<p>Since your D is class of '06, will she be taking the New SAT?</p>
<p>Don't some schools require it?</p>
<p>I did ask at Swarthmore and they said that Old SAT + SAT II writing would be good enough--don't know about other places.</p>
<p>Pyewacket: Also not sure that just scraping into a very highly selective and competitive school would be the right environment for D. Do you all think that most kids are happier at schools where they are near the middle range in academic abilities?</p>
<p>My opinion is that its better to trade up and that being around kids who are as smart or smarter is stimulating and rewarding. Its very difficult to quantify academic ability. From her grades and scores, your daughter sounds smart enough to handle the work at any of the colleges suggested and I think as a general statement the admissions committee has a fair idea of who will succeed at their school. </p>
<p>Theres a subtle but distinct difference between academically challenging and being competitive. I can only speak for Williams since thats where I have the most reliable input, but I feel that although the college is highly selective and academically rigorous, the kids are not necessarily ruthless or competitive. The atmosphere (again at Williams) is warm and supportive both from the kids and from the faculty, who are extremely accessible. This could probably be said of all of the LACs mentioned in this thread. The colleges have different personalities, but the students themselves are for the most part friendly, American middleclass kids.</p>
<p>At this point, she's just visiting. After your daughter visits, decides which elements on her wish list get top priority and makes her short list for applications, she still has to go through the acceptance and final decision phase, so basically, although its great to be asking questions, its still the right time to keep options open. If in a year and 3 months from now she has the option of attending let's say Swarthmore or Skidmore for example she can then decide which academic level is better for her. For now, it's best to visit and ultimately apply to a range.</p>
<p>Mattmom, Im definitely become the one-woman cheering section for Williams. Sorry to be tedious but I think theres a lot of misunderstanding about what Williams is and isnt. I concur wholeheartedly that a students short list shouldnt be too reach top heavy. My recurring point is that visits often dispel stereotypes, positive or negative. (After a visit, I never argue with a kid.)</p>
<p>pyewacket, so that means my D will have to take the New SAT since she didn't take the SATII Writing...</p>