Advice for my math prodigy son

<p>I applaud you for looking down the road toward high school and think this is wise but you’ve got 4 1/2 years to go and if there is nothing appropriate for him where you are then it might be worth a move. There are times when I wish we had just moved 10 miles to the next county over where gifted education is free instead of paying for a private gifted school but we loved his school so much we struggled like crazy to keep him there.</p>

<p>If you definitely see boarding school in his future and know you won’t have the means to send him, I would seriously think about any other hook he may have. The truth is that many math prodigies will apply and many of them will be full pay. It’s hard to say what the economic climate might be in a few years.</p>

<p>As far as teaching at a boarding school, I actually think it’s a great idea, but I have no idea whether or not that means he goes for free or whether or not it is practical. I have absolutely no idea how difficult it is to obtain a teaching position at a BS but definitely can see the value unless it means that by taking a position now his 4th-8th grade needs are not being met. The other tough thing is that it is hard to say what school might be best for him in 4-5 years and you could find yourself teaching at a place that is wrong for him. Then again, that’s why you’re trying to begin the process now…right?</p>

<p>Regarding your question about lower SSAT and upper SSAT, I get it that the lower SSAT is way too easy and will simply show you that your son is as strong in math as you know him to be. I wouldn’t bother having him take it unless it is required for a particular program. My son’s school had all the 7th graders take it just so they’d have an idea of an expected score on the upper test, which was then taken in 8th grade. Most of the 7th grade scores were ridiculously high, but taking it at that time either served as a wake up call, or eased the pressure, depending on the kid and the parents.</p>

<p>I would absolutely think that testing for CTY or the regional equivalents (TIP, NW) are in order even if you aren’t going to send him just yet. If you’re looking for a baseline, this might be it. He will be eligible for “Baby CTY” this year but you may want to wait until he’s a little older to have him do the overnight camps. He should absolutely take the SAT or ACT in 7th grade so that he is identified even if he doesn’t attend. These summer programs are costly (around $3500 for 3 weeks) and you really can’t expect any FA for them unless you make under $35K/year. </p>

<p>Best of luck to you, and feel free to PM me if it suits.</p>

<p>A state run magnet math/science high school may be the best financial option. Several states have them including Louisiana, Indiana, Illinois, North Carolina, Texas. Because they are state funded they don’t have the 5 figure fees that many private/boarding schools have.</p>

<p>The population of kids labeled as “Prodigy” and more particularly “Gifted” has grown commensurate with $$$ available to budget when you have high performing kids indentified. Administrators thus are motivated to right size the population in gifted programs by raising or lower the criteria to maximize contribution to budgets (where gifted programs exist). </p>

<p>But most are not at gifted but rather most simply have skills and competence that are precocious or multiple years ahead of peers. True gifts and prodigies are the ones who understand and think conceptually about math which I have not seen in any so called gifted students (public, private, magnet/charter nor private). Rather, I see a well trained student who is disciplined to perform calculations that are familiar. Go to any Kumon center and you see a room full of kids who can calculate, which I applaud, but countries like India, China, Japan, Singapore, Korea etc can produce the same kids with equal skills.</p>

<p>If you have a child with advanced calculation skills, that are several years ahead of peers, my recommendation is help them build skills in conceptual understanding - deepen their understanding of number theory, combinatorics and other conceptual things that will serve them well in the future. Being able to solve ambiguous problems that are hard to understand by applying solid conceptual approaches with analytic skills and being able to synthesize would be closer to gifted whereas simply being able to understand the rules of calculation only makes you smarter than your peers.</p>

<p>There is something in what you say, exsrch, about giftedness versus facility of calculation. </p>

<p>I read a very interesting study about verbal / mathematical abilites, as indicated by 12 y/o 's taking the SAT. There are roughly ten times the number of mathematically advanced kids as there are verbal kids. Furthermore, the word whizzes are very likely to reach advanced mathematical standing with training, whereas the math whizzes aren’t any more likely to show remarkable verbal skills than non high achieving kids.</p>

<p>Apparently, math is much easier to teach than philosophy! :)</p>

<p>Also, there are kids who have that “math mind” but are terrible at calculations or find math horribly boring. My daughter came home in 1st grade with a paper that asked her to write the number of sides under various shapes. Under the circle, she had written a sideways 8 (infinity). The teacher marked it wrong. The “correct” answer was 1. She has escher prints in her room now. I doubt she could break 450 on the SAT math, however. Maybe one day she will get to take non-Euclidean geometry and have fun. But she has to get through algebra first! More than likely, she won’t realize she’s good at math until she studies formal logic.</p>

<p>Some kids struggle when a teacher tells them that a circle has one side. Other kids struggle when asked a yes or no question and are incapable of answering simply because there are so many possibilities.</p>

<p>At any rate, when a child is only really happy when learning, and that’s not happening, a parent has to do what they can to help them. Some public schools understand kids like this, and others provide “enrichment” and pat themselves on the back for offering something.</p>

<p>Thanks, folks. Some good thoughts here. I think I will go the route I am going w/added testing, and eventual college courses. You would think from this list that more than 1% of the world had a 135+ IQ. Considering he has already passed the California Assesment math exam (even w/ my printing off only less than half the questions) I wonder if college courses will hold him. 9 now and doing geometry and linear algebra makes me wonder. He will, at this rate, need college level calculus at 13 and be done w/all our upper division college math by 15 or 16. Verbal questions are interesting. His vocab is off the charts–but not a gifted writer. Does anyone think I should start him on computer programming? I take notice of the conceptual ideology, and agree that will come less easily for him. It makes me wonder about the need to bring in computers for a realistic career path. He is definitely a calculating sort, as people have proffered.</p>

<p>Let him choose what he would like to try. The summer programs are a good place to start. You might also find a mentor who would work with him on programming.</p>

<p>ProfessorZ,<br>
you should giver serious consideration to enrolling him in Stanford’s EPGY program of online classes.
[Education</a> Program for Gifted Youth](<a href=“http://epgy.stanford.edu/]Education”>http://epgy.stanford.edu/)
and/ or the EPGY High School program.
[Stanford</a> University](<a href=“http://epgy.stanford.edu/ohs/index.html]Stanford”>http://epgy.stanford.edu/ohs/index.html)
I believe they offer FA. They can take him up through advanced college level math- see table-
<a href=“http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/math/[/url]”>http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/math/&lt;/a&gt;
and all EPGY college level courses are accepted for college credit at Stanford if he eventually goes to Stanford].
EPGY requires the student to take their math Ability test, </p>

<p>"Qualifying Examinations</p>

<p>Students age 5 to 13 applying to a Math, Physics or Computer Science course are required to take the online EPGY Mathematical Aptitude Test. Once this application is submitted, you may access the Mathematical Aptitude Test on your Student Page."</p>

<p>but other programs such as the CTY Summer programs [ which I also highly recommend] I require the SAT test, so get him signed up to take the test at a local HS asap. [it IS a 4 hr test, so be sure he is well rested and well fueled with a hearty breakfast that morning.]
<a href=“http://cty.jhu.edu/summer/apply.html#steps[/url]”>http://cty.jhu.edu/summer/apply.html#steps&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You should also have him start preparing to compete in AMC math contests, which are the most prestigious math competitions in the world. EPGY can also help prepare him -
<a href=“http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/math/MC08/index.html[/url]”>http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/math/MC08/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I also recommend you post your original questions on the Parents Forum, where you will find a wealth of parents with experience in educating gifted students.</p>

<p>If you have had a cognitive ability test (IQ) done already and he has either perceptual, verbal, or fullscale of at least 150, (99.99 percentile) he has half of what he needs to qualify for Davidson Institute. They will help finding a mentor and with FA. The other test is achievement and there are several that he can use to qualify. Davidson understands kids like this. It’s free too. Lot’s of info on their website: [Profoundly</a> Gifted Children Services and Programs by the Davidson Institute](<a href=“http://www.davidsongifted.org/]Profoundly”>http://www.davidsongifted.org/)</p>

<p>Hopefully your current school is working with you?</p>

<p>CC is known for its super-achievers. Personally, I find it comforting to know that there are other kids and parents dealing with this and looking for options.</p>

<p>My son, who is a homeschooled senior, is taking AP Calculus BC through PA homeschoolers (online). According to my son there is a group of about three 13-14 year old kids in his class who are “insanely smart!” (He meant this as a compliment. From what he tells me they all participate in some sort of math club in their area (New York) where they are really challenged. My son looked up some of the classes they had mentioned that they took and it took him to a site “The Art of Problem Solving.” I looked at it and it seemed quite interesting for young people with these talents.</p>

<p>Prof Z:
I have been in your shoes. My son is a math prodigy too. It’s tempting to look too far down the road and ask what math is he going to be doing X years from now? But we are talking about a child here. A child whose identity is forming and given the opportunity will have interests other than math. My son went to MOSP in 9th grade and had an epiphany: he did not enjoy being in an environment where math was the focus 24/7. He realized he wanted to apply his math knowledge to other fields. Even though he qualified for USAMO 4 years in a row, he switched his focus to computer programming and physics and started work on a research project. With the advent of the internet there are many options for educating kids today. I think prep school may be a good choice when your son is old enough because it will give him the opportunity to explore other subject areas with students who are exceptionally well rounded. My son benefited immensely from being in that environment. In the meantime, focus on developing depth in your child’s math education instead of looking up the mathematical ladder of courses.</p>

<p>I’m a college professor at CU Boulder. My son described to me an intuitive proof that there are more irrationals between 0 and 1 than there are integers; he was 6 at the time.</p>

<p>Although I realize he’s unusual in his math abilities, I don’t want to send him to MIT at age 14 even if he could go. I’d rather keep him with his age group.</p>

<p>So this is what we do now (he’s 7):</p>

<ol>
<li>Go on long walks in the mountains and do math problems</li>
<li>Play math games like Chomp</li>
<li>We bought a Lego Mindstorm NXT robot and program it to do silly things</li>
<li>Make up new games and write programs to implement them</li>
</ol>

<p>Basically, that’s what I recommend people do with their gifted kids: spend tons of time with them, encourage them, and keep it fun. Some parents can’t do this because of time constraints, or sometimes because the child surpasses them parent in ability (!!) and when that happens I might have to rethink this.</p>

<p>Ozweepay,
May I suggest also letting your son loose with a box of Zomes? When my older two were little they would spend hours building architectural models then removing struts to see which were structural. They are also great for geometric modeling.</p>

<p>Ummm…reading three levels ahead of your own isn’t that impressive…and your statement about him not liking to be around other kids is scary…he won’t get into a top tier school if he has no social skills…test scores aren’t the be all and end all…and btw, not
to brag, but I was reading Stephen king in grade three…</p>

<p>^^You are also commenting on a thread that is old.</p>

<p>can ditto menloparkmom’s recommendation for Stanford 's EPGY Program - my daughter did the middle school summer program on campus this summer, and simply put, it was outstanding. Having said that I have heard great things about the online program as well - what Stanford is doing with all these programs is getting a look at the best and brightest. They also want these students to get to know Stanford ,and they really pull out all the stops at the summer institute. My daughter is hooked.</p>

<p>who cares? btw, i dont think ur kid is gifted-the stats aren’t even that impressive…and make ur kid well rounded-friends, sports</p>

<p>Call Davidson Institute and get some direction. Consider moving to Reno, NV for Davidson Academy. We would if we could.</p>

<p>Really EPGY?–my son went this summer tooand was ridiculous not challenged (and he’s not a math genious, just a well rounded bright kid). He loved being around other talented and motivated students, but the level of learning was not challenging. It’s very cool to be at Stanford and living with 60 other smart boys, but it is very expensive and, seemed to us, they picked kids whose mommy and daddies could pay . . . .</p>

<p>Davidson Academy starts as young as 7 years old. They will have a boarding option for the 2011-2010 school year. I was part of the focus group. They will not have a dormitory option- rather a host family situation. I highly encourage you to look at it. Davidson Young Scholars program has been quite helpful for us as well. There are 5 regional Talent Search centers across the US as well. Our kids took the Explore test starting in 3rd grade ( a modified ACT for 8th graders) and the full SAT and ACT in 6th grade and up. I have found that having tangible testing done has opened so many doors for our kids. Our school district tested all our kids IQ for a highly gifted program (STanford Benet IQ test) at no charge. Good luck!!</p>