Advice making first audition CD ?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>My DD wanted to make an audition CD for a summer institute, the two required selections were basically her choice. She thought it would be easy but never got the job done (she has not done this before). She took one piece and played it into the recorder about 35 times, not happy with any of them. Then she switched to the 2nd piece with the same results. She wasted tons of time listening to EVERY recording. I've searched the forums, but can't seem to find advice on how to be productive and make a good audition CD in less than a ridiculous amount of time. With her process she also got a sore shoulder (tension) and aggravated a thumb problem (playing too much at once).</p>

<p>A relation questions is regarding recording the flute. We have a good music quality recorder, so the technical aspects of making a CD are not going to be difficult. When she listened to her recordings she was upset that you could hear her take a breath. She moved the recorder further away until you couldn't hear her breathe, but it sounded like the flute was at the end of a hallway and there wasn't enough volume.</p>

<p>I have no expertise in this area, but I was going to tell her for a CD to start 2-4 weeks ahead of time and (1) warm-up/practice (2) play the selected piece 3 times the best you can and record all 3 (3) don't listen in-between and waste time (4) listen to all 3 at the end and delete the worst one or keep only the obvious best one. Repeat process daily until you have a handle on this. Is this strategy ok or should she do something else?</p>

<p>Someone gave her advice about her first audition CD. They said "don't try to make a professional recording until after you have HEARD a professional audition recording". This comment freaked her out and she dropped the whole process!!</p>

<p>Help!</p>

2

<p>First, tell her not to feel bad. I don't know anyone who finds recording to be anything but an onerous process! And, it's a rare performer who is happy with every aspect of the final selected CD (unless they have edited, but that is another issue with its own threads, I'm sure).</p>

<p>Make sure the first 2 - 3 minutes are as good as possible and that the ending is clean as well. Most audition CD's are not listened to in entirety and a slight slip in the middle may go totally unheard (depending on length and repertoire requirements - orchestra excerpts will likely be heard all the way through.) If she doesn't like her playing within the first minute or so - cut the taping and start again. Don't worry about lots of false starts - just relax and start again.</p>

<p>I don't know the drill for recording flutes. I've certainly heard recordings and live radio boradcasts where the flutists' breathing is audible. Hopefully others can advise - her teacher? </p>

<p>I like your ideas - may I pass them on? The key is to try and relax and the on-going approach you suggest introduces familiarity and relaxation into the process. </p>

<p>The best advice I have is - leave lots of time. Even then, the final result is likely to have some compromises.</p>

<p>I remember watching my own kids produce audition CDs. They did get more comfortable and produce better results as the years went by. The best CDs were the ones that included repertoire they had played over long periods of time. For violins, solo Bach and a Romantic or Mozart concerto are frequently required. My kids kept these in their working repertoire and could generally put together a decent CD within 2 -3 hours given a couple weeks warning. </p>

<p>If she has a good CD, label carefully and keep a copy for yourselves. It may be possible to re-use a previously produced CD - although I know with my kids in their developing years the playing improved so much year to year that they generally wanted to make a new CD - even if the same literature was required.</p>

<p>Obviously, always keep a copy of anything you submit. Twice, one of my kids had CDs "lost in the mail" and had to re-send! </p>

<p>The fact that your D was unhappy can be a great learning experience if she is mature enough to apply the lessons available. Point out to her the value of recording her practice and listening with the same discerning ear as she did to the audition CD attempts. If she can listen and apply the corrections she notes are needed, she will improve rapidly!! I have to honestly say that most of my kids could not work at the high self-critical level necessary until college - just the obvious stuff was corrected while in high school.</p>

<p>One other thought, as she completes a work, especially if performed with piano, encourage her to record it and keep a library of pieces that she could put together on an audition CD. Sometimes just the fact that you're recording "for fun" just to have a recording - instead of feeling the pressure of needing to produce an audition CD in X hours - will make the process smoother.</p>

3

<p>Here is a thread that might help:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/479809-simplest-way-record-auditions.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/479809-simplest-way-record-auditions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It seems she is having problems with the Microphone. I read somewhere, that a good placement for microphones is 1/2 the width of the room. So, you need a mike with decent sensitivity and range. The distance gives room for the sound to develop, and to cut out on extraneous noise, such as your child breathing.</p>

<p>On my son's audition CD's, you can hear the page turns of the accompanist. I think they know kid's can't afford professional quality recordings.</p>

<p>Also, it is farily easy to take Tracks off a CD, and assemble them onto a new CD (fiddlesix comment about false starts, just take off the track that sounds the best).</p>

<p>Also, my son's teacher says you need to capture the guys attention in the first 10 seconds. So make sure the best opening is first (first impressions are important here too). Then, if the first song is good, they will go on to the next song, and so on.</p>

4

<p>My son also just made his first audition CD for a summer program. What a painful process. He is a freshman in HS. I'm not sure he got it quite right as I think the end of his selections were better than the beginning and I am afraid they will not be heard in their entirety. However, I see this as a learning experience. If he chooses to go down this road, I would rather have him understand the process now, than be surprised 3 years from now. I don't expect him to be accepted, but it is good for him to know where he stands in a bigger pool of musicians. Nonetheless, it was frustrating to watch. I don't think he realized how long it would take. Plus, he applied to 2 programs with somewhat different requirements. It wasn't until quite late in the process that he realized he hadn't met one of the requirements. So, just learning to read directions is a good lesson.</p>

<p>He had to write a short essay for one, which, as you might guess, was written at midnight the night before it needed a postmark. I tried not to stress out too much as this isn't a college application.</p>

<p>I love the idea of recording things as he goes along, and developing a library from which to start next time. I will pass that along.</p>

5

<p>A lot depends on the microphone and the acoustic environment you are in. If you are using a small diaphragm condenser in a fairly large space that is longer than it is wide, the rule of thumb cited by OperaDad is a good place to start.</p>

<p>Some other types of microphones may need to be placed quite close to the instrument to avoid the "end of the hallway" sound. In this case, I would start with the mic a bit above the instrument and not along the axis of the embouchure. You have to avoid having the player blow directly toward the mic as that will greatly increase breath noise. You want to position it to minimize both breath noise and key noise while still getting the sound of the instrument. This takes some experimentation, particularly if you have never recorded a flute before. It is not an easy thing to do and the player has got to have the discipline to remain fairly still while recording so that the sound does not change in ways they do not want. Close micing a flute player who tends to move a lot while playing is an exercise in frustration for all involved.</p>

<p>Your comment that the volume was too low when you move the microphone farther away leads me to believe that you are either using the wrong microphone for that distance, that you are not setting the gain correctly somewhere along the line, or quite likely both. Gain staging is critical to making the recording sound its best. You want the preamp, mixer and recorder set to use most of their available dynamic range without overloading any of them. It sounds like perhaps you have a unit that combines all of these functions in one package, but there are still controls that have to be set (and frequently more than one control) correctly before attempting to record. These settings are highly dependent on the microphone used and the distance from the microphone to the instrument.</p>

<p>Musicians are often their own harshest critics and rarely like they way they sound, particularly if they do not have lots of experience listening to themselves. This is a case where the perfect is the enemy of the good. If you find that you cannot make a satisfactory recording on your own, perhaps you should try hiring a professional rather than doing the technical stuff yourself. Learning the art and science of sound recording while attempting to make a decent recording of yourself is a tall order. Alternately, you could try recording someone else until you really understand how to use the equipment.</p>

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<p>We used an Edirol R09HR recorder mounted in the highest position on our camera tripod. We angled the recorders mikes down at a 45 degree angle pointing mid-way between the embouchure hole and first open hole key. With the volume and gain level set the way we thought it should be, I thought the flute sounded great (recorder was about 24" from the flute). When DD heard her breathing (inhaling, not blowing or exhaling) she took it upon herself to move the tripod further away by another 2 or 3 feet. Thus no inhaling sound, but thus the far-away sound of the flute. I was afraid if I adjusted volume and gain again it would pick up the inhaling even though it is now further away. If it were a critical audition perhaps a pro would be the best way to go, but for school auditions and such we need to have the flexibility to do this at home, and just haven't learned the correct placement yet. I guess my other question for her flute teacher is "why is it bad to hear someone inhale?" (or does it matter).</p>

<p>Thanks to everyone for their replies!!</p>

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<p>I also have to comment that my son also struggled with this. He would make recording after recording that neither he nor his teacher would be particularly happy with. They would finally have to pick something to meet a deadline, sometimes assembling movements from different takes. My son eventually learned that at some point, it had to be "good enough". "Good enough" didn't mean that he was happy, but that it was probably the best he was going to get given the time limitations and the awkwardness of making recordings. As it turns out, "good enough" was usually just that - good enough to get him accepted to what he was applying to. This wasn't always the case, but it happened often enough that he eventually realized that he didn't have to be perfect on recordings. He had to use the recording to show off his best attributes and if he was able to do that, he was satisfied. Agonizing over the process is exhausting and, ultimately, counter productive. Do if 5-6 times at the most and pick the best movements out of the lot. After that, move on.</p>

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<p>The initial placement sounds like a good start, but recording a flute in even a large room inside a typical home is a dicey proposition. You simply can't get the microphone far enough away from large flat surfaces like floors, ceilings and walls to prevent early reflections from doing strange things to the sound. You can position the mic in a way that would be perfect in a large hall, but still get not very good sound. If you have not already done so, make sure that the AGC is turned off and try using the low cut filter to remove some of the breathing. I don't know if there is an available wind screen for that unit, but that could also help.</p>

<p>Hearing someone inhale is not a terrible thing unless it gets loud enough to become a distraction. This is obviously happening for your daughter, but she may just be over-sensitive to the issue. It should not be very loud at all if she is breathing correctly and does not have physical issues constricting the air passages. I would suggest letting the teacher hear the initial recordings and ask whether they think the inhalation noise is excessive.</p>

<p>One thing I have seen some students do that makes this issue worse is to wait until the last possible split second before they start playing and then take a large, sudden gasp of air. If they have time before an entrance, it is much quieter to take the breath slowly and with an open throat. This obviously does not help with catch breaths in a long phrase, or when there is only an eighth note or so rest between phrases, but it can cut the noise quite a bit when you have the time.</p>

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<p>would make a difference? The r09HR has Hall, room, and I don't remember what else. We have it set on the default right now. I did order the windscreen today (thought I'm not sure if that will help inhaling and we don't hear any exhaling) and I have not yet tried the low cut filter but will do so. The build-in recorder microphones just seem very sensitive! They hear her breathe much easier that I do even if I'm in the room. I believe we're able to get the recorder at least 10-14 feet from any wall or ceiling, but it's probably 7 or 8 feet from the floor. Whatever we're doing, though, sounds way way better than when she had to do school auditions via SmartMusic on the computer! Thanks for your advice!!</p>

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<p>I would keep reverb off completely. Even 10-14 feet is too close to the wall or ceiling if you are recording from more than a foot or two away from the mic. That is why you are getting the "end of the hall" effect. If the floor is a hard reflective surface, have her stand on a throw rug and put the mic stand either on that rug or another one. If the entire floor is carpeted, no need to add throw rugs. For more important recordings, consider using a much larger space to record in. I think the combination of the windscreen and the low cut should help.</p>

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<p>Is there any chance you can use the teacher's studio? Or ask your D's teacher for advice as to what facility would produce the best possible sound for this. She's going to have to get used to making these, so it's good to take this time to work out all of the kinks.</p>

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<p>I used our church to record. They had a sound system that worked fine. As a member (and a person who is on the sound team), it was free. Not the best mic's, but better than what comes with recorders.</p>