Advice needed desperately. Ineligible to transfer from CC due to too many credits.

Parents Forum
21

<p>I'm trying to figure out what the transfer advisor at your CC told you to do. All I can see is that she told you to finish your associates degree? </p>

<p>I find that the transfer advisors at our CC are excellent - and most kids, who want to, transfer smoothly into a SUNY or 2+2 programs (with selected 4 year schools). Students planning on doing a transfer option (to complete their 4-year bachelors degree) are encouraged to plan ahead carefully - in consultation with their advisor and department chair, so that they aren't wasting time and money at CC.</p>

<p>What did the advisor at your CC tell you to do that is backfiring now?</p>

22

<p>Weenie, basically I consulted with my advisor about whether I should leave without an associates degree or spend more time on the associates degree when the credits possibly would not transfer. Up until that point, it had been expressed to me that there would be NO problems in staying longer/gaining more credit. The only problem that I was told that I would have was actually GETTING the credits transferred since I would be over 2 years, which I didn't care about. He encouraged me to finish and said that it would be more beneficial. My point is that everything in my life made staying a better option; however, if I had known about the possibility that I am facing now, I would have left without the degree.</p>

<p>I view the advisors to be incompetent for multiple reasons, some which I mentioned in the original post. I don't believe that a person should advise students to "just google it" when they are asking legitimate questions about topics that they have clearly researched, or insist that private schools are ridiculous options, etc. A transfer advisor's JOB is to know whether students will need to take the SAT to transfer. All of the other things he suggested, however, I fixed or ignored. I am pretty annoyed though that when I took the initiative several times, giving him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he was having a bad day or whatever, he failed to mention that staying that extra time WOULD hurt me. Maybe he didn't know, and neither did I, but I kind of feel like it is his job to know that kind of stuff. It isn't like I didn't try to consult with him, it's just that the consultations were worthless. I am one of many who say this about this man, if that helps with the credibility of the complaint. I also spoke with another advisor, as I mentioned, and he also encouraged me to stay the extra time. </p>

<p>It is nice that the transfer advisors at your CC are excellent. I wish my supposedly "top CC" could boast the same.</p>

<p>I could probably transfer into a SUNY smoothly too. My ex had even more credits than I have and he is at stonybrook right now. Articulation agreements are also another story. I didn't want to attend any of the schools with which we had options for those sorts agreements. My school claims that they get kids into Harvard, Columbia, etc. I happen to find it offensive that they brag about that, yet don't know that they COULDN'T get us in if we took more than 2 years. It is not than unusual at my CC for kids to take more than 2 years to graduate either.</p>

23

<p>Frazzled, the problem appears to be NOT the degree but rather the total number of credits.</p>

24

<p>Actually, many schools/programs are NOT easy to transfer into after just 1 semester. Therefore, if one matriculates into one college, and wants to transfer, other schools are quite likely to want to see 2 semesters worth of transcripts.</p>

<p>Many schools accept transfers at the start of their Junior year. As long as you are willing to enter as Junior, you should find a range of schools to choose from. Usually schools will require you to have a certain number of credits from their institution in order to receive a degree from them.</p>

<p>Cornell accepts students as juniors, in their College of Arts and Sciences.</p>

25

<p>Wondering if there's a bureaucratic process by which some CC credits could be "downgraded" or earmarked on the transcript in some special way, to highlight that they were actually done to replace high school requirements (since you had the hospital situation and all).</p>

<p>When kids take CC credits as seniors in h.s. (because they're bored with h.s...)
is there some special label or marke to designate this on the CC transcript?
If so, maybe it could be applied to your sitatuion, thereby reducing your total number of credits.</p>

<p>Credits shouldn't do double-duty. If they were meant to cover your h.s. years, then they did that work already. Just thinking out loud here.</p>

26

<p>Dartmouth also accepts students in their Junior Year. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Students transferring to Dartmouth after their first or second years at other institutions may receive anywhere between 9 and a maximum of 17 credits, and should be aware that depending on the number of credits approved for transfer, they may need to be in residence longer than they might have expected to complete their Dartmouth requirements

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Just to clarify, you need 35 credits to graduate from Dartmouth. So if they accept 17 transfer credits, that still requires 50% more to be earned at Dartmouth.</p>

27

<p>Op states:</p>

<p>
[quote]
After I received my diploma I went to community college as a regular student. None of my college credits counted toward high school, but it did take some time to get used to being a real student.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>When you approach these schools, I think the most important thing is not to write or talk to them from a woe is me, or it all the school's fault perspective. Even if you think that the counseling you recieved was less than adequate, at the end of the day the relationship is around 51/49 where the 51% falls on you and a lot of the ownership still falls on you as far as knowing what you need to graduate (even if that meant printing out a copy of the associate degree requirements and checking them all off one by one). </p>

<p>However, because what has been done is done, you have to work with the here and now where you must approach them from a position of strength. This means taking ownership, accountability and responsibility for your role in all of this even if it means; saying yes I was lacking in my due diligence, I did not ask the correct questions, or a I made a wrong assumption in thinking that I could take these additional courses because I had not finished my degree requirement. Do people make mistakes and bad choices? Everyday, the thing is know how to pull your self together and move forward.</p>

<p>This now means doing additional research in a short period of time and familiarizing your self with the transfer process at different schools and asking the second level question from the regional reps/ admissions directors.</p>

<p>You might also look into some of the colleges for adult learners(especially if you have had a break in your education) like Columbia's school of General Studies who will allow you to transfer up to 60 credits. This is the main thing you need to communicate to colleges that you are willing to leave credits on the table even if it means losing 40 of the credits you have gained thus far to complete the degree requirements for their school (keep in mind that all of you credits will be evaluated in the law/professional/graduate school process).</p>

<p>Also look at Cornell and the land grant schools that overlap with the SUNY system.</p>

28

<p>Paying3tuitions, I'm terribly flattered. It's not my idea, I stole it from my mother, who was a master complainer (and pretty much awful to be around). She would complain in a store, then when told no, she'd ask to speak to the manager because "I understand you can't actually say yes." (I used to watch for the manager sneaking out the back as she started her litany of complaints; it was an amusement of mine.)</p>

<p>However, that said, it helps to be nice when asking for the person who can say yes. I usually ask "is that something you can authorize or should you pass me on to your supervisor?"</p>

29

<p>
[quote]
Wondering if there's a bureaucratic process by which some CC credits could be "downgraded" or earmarked on the transcript in some special way, to highlight that they were actually done to replace high school requirements (since you had the hospital situation and all).</p>

<p>When kids take CC credits as seniors in h.s. (because they're bored with h.s...)
is there some special label or marke to designate this on the CC transcript?
If so, maybe it could be applied to your sitatuion, thereby reducing your total number of credits.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't know if the concept of retrospective downgrading is possible, but I suspect not.</p>

<p>I think the key distinction is that the OP was taking the courses as a matriculated student with a prior high school diploma in a degree-seeking program, which has important implications for eligibility for Federal financial aid programs (and possibly state aid grants as well, in some places.)</p>

<p>I believe that Federal financial aid eligibility is limited to 150% of the required credits for a program, including transfer credits.</p>

<p>So, for example, if a BA degree requires 120 credit hours, the student will be eligible for Federal financial aid for no more than 180 credit hours total, including all transfer credits.</p>

<p>In addition to actual transfer credits, certain attempted credits are counted as well in that total. That would include credits for courses that were attempted and failed (which doesn't sound like an issue in this poster's case) but it would also include credits for courses that a student enrolled in, but withdrew from after some point into the course. (Drops in early weeks would not be counted against the student's allowed limit, but a late-in-the-term withdraw would be counted.) It also includes courses that a student successfully completed at one college that were not accepted for transfer credits elsewhere, due to differences in course descriptions or degree requirements, etc.</p>

<p>So a student could arrive with over 100 credit hours on her transcript and if it is going to take her more than 80 credit hours to graduate (due to some of her credits not being accepted towards degree requirements at the new school), she may not be eligible for enough credits of financial aid to finish her degree.</p>

<p>Something many people may not know: in addition to an academic transcripts, students also have something called a "Financial Aid Transcript" that follows them through their entire academic career. It will include information on things are not on the academic transcript, like courses that were dropped six weeks into the term that count against the financial aid limits even though they are not on the academic transcript.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Financial Aid Transcript (FAT)
A record of all federal aid received by the student at each school attended. If you have previously attended an institution of higher education and are now applying for financial aid from the different university, the university will require a FAT from each of the schools previously attended, regardless of whether aid was received or not. They are required to do this by federal law. You have to submit a FAT even if you were in high school at the time. An electronic FAT process will be in place soon which will eliminate the need for the student to submit a FAT. The FAT is not the same as an academic transcript.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>source: FinAid</a> | Answering Your Questions | Glossary</p>

<p>Note that even courses taken in high school under dual enrollment must be reported on the FAT, though they are probably less problematic because such students are not eligible for Federal aid.</p>

<p>I agree that visiting Smith in person is a good idea, but I suggest you first visit your cc and pick up a copy of your financial aid transcript and bring that with you as well. If you will need financial aid (as most Smith students do), you should also set up an appointment with a financial aid officer to review your Financial Aid Transcript.</p>

<p>Bottom line: you can't "discard credits" on your Financial Aid Transcript, even if you have no desire to count them towards your bachelor degree.</p>

30

<p>Chocoholic:
"As long as you are willing to enter as Junior, you should find a range of schools to choose from. Usually schools will require you to have a certain number of credits from their institution in order to receive a degree from them."</p>

<p>I applied as a Junior... All of the schools to which I applied take Junior transfers, but the problem is that I have over the amount of credits permitted to apply as a junior. </p>

<p>Momwaitingfornew:
Yes, exactly.</p>

<p>Paying3tuitions: Unfortunately, they would never be marked as HS credit since I had my HS diploma upon matriculation.</p>

<p>Sybbie:
Perhaps I did not adequately explain. I knew EXACTLY what I needed to graduate. I am obsessive compulsive about checking this sort of stuff. As I mentioned several times, it appeared that my best option was to NOT transfer right away. The graduation vs. lack of graduation was secondary. I would have transferred without the degree had I realized. I did not slack about trying to gain info; I asked at at least one admissions office that listed that policy (and didn't call the rest because they said the same exact thing and I, yes, wrongfully assumed that the rest of the schools that had the same exact policy would explain the same exact policy) and spoke to my admissions counsellor. As you mentioned, people make mistakes every day, but my mistake did not come out of not checking my degree requirements. All my degree requirements did were bring me my associates degree. I did not need to fulfil them to transfer. I take responsibility for the fact that I did not drill the person in admissions further, yes. It was a mistake to think that if I asked whether I would have a problem trying to transfer with over 2 years that I would get an accurate response, and a bigger mistake to think that I could avoid drilling persons at ALL of the schools. In my opinion, this world would really suck if everyone did that, but MY life would be a lot better if I had, yep.</p>

<p>Personally, I wasn't planning on blaming ANYONE in my letter. Things like this just happen sometimes, I suppose. Whining about my advising won't help. I only mentioned it here because I was upset and wanted to give some insight. </p>

<p>I apologize if I appear curt in this response, but I've been spending the last 3 days crying because something that I've been dreaming about for many years just seemed to be flushed down the drain with a phone call. I am in shock because thursday night I sent in the last of my applications, felt relief in response to ending this process that has consumed up so much of my time, but friday morning I was woken up to a phone call that brought the realization that it was likely for nothing. And I am depressed and angry about a policy that seems illogical to me and just trying to do the best I can to get insight on the situation. Sorry to sound melodramatic, but this is a big deal to me. I've been kicked in the butt a lot and although this doesn't compare to most of that, at this point it almost feels like God is taunting me. Also, I find it bothersome that so few people I have spoken with seem to acknowledge college as more than a path to grad school. A lot of schools are good, but not all have the sense of community that I am looking for. Of course, I need a degree to do what I want in life, but I will never get the college opportunity again. The prospect is terribly disappointing.</p>

<p>I wouldn't go to Columbia's General Studies school. I have heard some disturbing firsthand accounts. Also, I am too young for most schools like that. I would probably be eligible for Columbia's after this year, but, as I mentioned, I only just turned 22. As for Cornell, the "suicide bridge" school is just not for me. </p>

<p>I know that you are trying to help and it isn't your fault that you don't know my situation. I just need some answers to the questions that I actually asked, without unneeded implications that I made "bad choices" (salt + wounds = ****ed OFF). I don't plan on being miserable for the next 2+ years of my life because of some ridiculous policy that wouldn't even affect the amount of time they would like me to matriculate. Sorry, but I call BS when I see it. I may be mad at myself about my choices, but that doesn't change the fact that this is illogical BS. And this sort of baloney is exactly why I want to go into law.</p>

<p>Also, the reason I posted the schools I desire was to gain suggestions on how to get in THEM or others like them, not more schools that would lead to my nightmare college experience. </p>

<p>/end rant.</p>

31

<p>Hey Wisteria,</p>

<p>Thank you very much for your comment. Yes, you are right that downgrading is not possible because I already had a HS degree.</p>

<p>I will not be eligible for financial aid. My dad owns a lot of property, so we would pretty much get nothing. I think that my brother got $2000 a year for something basic, but that is it. Also, my dad owned significantly less land when my brother applied, so I suppose that it is possible that we wouldn't even get that. Money isn't an issue. I love that Smith is socioeconomically diverse (let's just say that I never fit into my neighborhood anyway :)), but personally money is not a problem.</p>

<p>Thank you again. I will call Smith tomorrow about a meeting. Now I am really glad that I ordered extra transcripts to my house though, because I definitely would like to show my grades and have a "visual guide" when I explain the situation.</p>

32

<p>This DOES sound really illogical to me too, since you are willing and eager to spend 2 full years there. I think going and talking to someone is a great idea and I think you should take several deep breaths and try to think some positive thoughts between now and then. It's natural that you believed what you were told. It's hard for me to believe that colleges would penalize you for having extra credits in a situation like this. Cyberhugs to you--I think you'll find a way to work this out.</p>

33

<p>I think going to speak in person is a good idea as well.</p>

<p>I think looking at colleges which have the LAC atmosphere you want, but with fairly high transfer acceptance rates, might yield some better possibilities for you. You can check on our Transfer Forum to get some ideas.</p>

<p>I think it is possible that your desire for a spring transfer just adds an extra obstacle, so you might want to abandon that idea. Very few of the highly selective schools offer spring transfer. And it gives you lots more time to research other possibilities - as most fall transfer deadlines are in March.</p>

<p>There are also many universities which, due to their size or other characteristics, have a "LAC feel." So you might want to post a thread asking for suggestions of "unis with a lack feel" and/or start researching universities in the <6000 undergrads range or universities with Honors programs that really provide that feel.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>^^ Yes, fall transfers are generally easier. If frazzled takes this approach, she should not take any more college classes.</p>

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<p>Bethie, thanks for the advice and cyberhugs; I really need some right now.</p>

<p>I find it hard to believe also. It makes no sense to me, since I am coming from a two year school that clearly doesn't offer classes above the 200 level. It is just weird and upsetting that they would look at it this way. What if I had had 4 years worth of credits? Would I be viewed at a person who should have already received a BA? No, because the years were not spent at that level. It just doesn't make sense. </p>

<p>jmmom, I think that I may need to do that. I guess that I will just need to do some hardcore research to figure out which of the LAC-type schools let students relinquish credits.</p>

<p>Well, my spring apps are already in. I will just have to explore fall options in the meantime. I am less worried about my chances as a person than I am about my chances due to this situation. I know what you mean though. </p>

<p>Yeah, I kept Clark U because of that. It definitely has that feel. Maybe I can find more like that. </p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>Momwaitingfornew, I am not taking any classes for credit this semester, and I will DEFINITELY not take any for credit next semester!</p>

36

<p>
[quote]
I applied as a Junior... All of the schools to which I applied take Junior transfers, but the problem is that I have over the amount of credits permitted to apply as a junior.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, wouldn't the school just *not *transfer all those credits? From school transfer websites that I have looked at, it seems as if schools will give limited credit for transfer students, and you would have to fulfil some minimum requirement of how many classes you take at the new school.</p>

37

<p>Lehigh University is one that occurred to me (like other parents, my suggestions will often just be from schools that happened to cross my radar from my own child's process; my son transferred, he did not look at LACS but we became familiar with some unis that might fit you). It has <em>for me</em> some of the feel of a LAC; has quite a high transfer acceptance rate (51.2% reported for 2006); states on its website that people can even transfer in as seniors (!) and clearly doesn't limit # credits beyond your threshhold, as they refer to transfering up to 104 credits. Beautiful confined campus; profs very approachable; highly respected school.</p>

<p>Tulane is another small university that has a nice and confined campus and might be worth a check.</p>

38

<p>This is so heartbreaking. Have you researched non-traditional schools like Hampshire, Bard, and maybe Reed? They might be more accommodating.</p>

39

<p>"Well, wouldn't the school just not transfer all those credits? From school transfer websites that I have looked at, it seems as if schools will give limited credit for transfer students, and you would have to fulfil some minimum requirement of how many classes you take at the new school."</p>

<p>Welcome to exactly how it was explained to me. Apparently, this logical explanation is not actually how they do things. Instead, I have a degree from a two year school (thus should go in as a junior, starting the third year), but took three years worth of classes within that school. An appropriate analogy would not even be if I had been a HS student who took college classes, so needed to apply as a transfer. It is as if a high school student took an extra class or two every semester, or stayed a bit longer, and was forced to apply to college as a sophomore because he took too many HS classes. How does that make sense? It is a different level of education. The third year at a two year level will never be like a junior year. Yeah, juniors can take 100 and 200 level classes, but they wouldn't graduate in time if for their entire education (freshman to end of junior year) they had only taken 100 or 200 level. Thus, why this whole situation is RIDICULOUS.</p>

40

<p>Frazzled - I don't know if you're willing to come west, but you might want to look at Santa Clara University or Mills College, both in the Bay Area. Santa Clara has the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics, which might be interesting to you. Mills College is for women only, which might not appeal to you. But I know they encourage transfer applications from women who want to finish their BA's, and I think they're not picky about where people left off. They're trying to address the needs of women who had a gap in their educations, which is not your situation, but it does mean they're more flexible than some schools about transfer paths.</p>