Advice on best course of action for getting aid

Paying for College
1

<p>I have a few loaded questions here! Hopefully they make sense! :)</p>

<p>I currently have my undergraduate degree and have been unable to pursue any further education as I became extremely ill a few years ago. I've recently began showing signs of improvement and am hopeful that I'm on the road to recovery. My fiance has been taking care of me this whole time and has been unable to attend college due to time constraints. </p>

<p>During my recent bout of optimism, I have been researching what options we both may have for attending school and receiving full tuition plus possible cost of living.</p>

<p>Stats about me:
U.S. Citizen
As stated above, I already have my undergraduate degree (combined major of Finance and Information Technology Management).
I struggled with health issues during schooling and had a hard time graduating with a 3.2 average. I'm also sure I did not apply myself as much as I could have.</p>

<p>I am planning on changing my major and want to get my PhD in a biology related field.
I have been unable to work for over a year now, so my EFC should be 0. </p>

<p>Would I have a better chance getting university based aid based on need?
Or, would I have a chance at getting merit based need if I scored really high on the GMAT/GRE and took biology undergraduate coursework prior to applying to my desired university while maintaining a 4.0 average? </p>

<p>At this point, I'm extremely motivated to do whatever it takes to be able to go back to school. </p>

<p>The fiance (also U.S. Citizen):
How likely is it for someone to get cost of living allowance when attending an undergraduate program in addition to full tuition? I've been researching this
and it doesn't seem like it's very likely. My finance wants to be able to focus solely on his coursework and take the maximum credits allowable. </p>

<p>Undergraduate merit based awards: Can eligibility for these awards be determined by SAT/ACT scores even if the individual is over the age of 30? My fiance has the advantage of being extremely competent in the test taking department. I'm certain he could score very high on all of these tests.</p>

<p>Do undergraduate need based "full ride" awards exist?
He is also 1/4 Native Hawaiian, but I'm unsure if this is a major benefit to him when attempting to receive aid.</p>

<p>I think I may be confusing myself on this topic. I understand that it's best to score highest as possible on the above tests, as well as having the highest GPA as possible;
but I'm curious as to how likely it would be for my fiance and I to receive need based awards vs merit based and whether or not they would also be allocated to the cost of living. </p>

<p>Thank you for any input you can provide.</p>

2

<p>Since you have a degree your chances of getting need based or federal aid for a second degree or additional course work is highly unlikely. Your gpa will also be a challenge when it comes to applying for PhD programs. The best that you can do is get recommendation letters from professors or employers if you have worked in a field related to your studies. It will also be a challenge if you don’t have relevant research experience. </p>

<p>For all intents and purposes , it is not unusual for grad students to have 0 EFC, especially if they gave not worked after graduation. However, financial aid at the grad level is totally different than what it is at the undergrad level where one is working toward a first bachelors degree.</p>

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<p>If you are both graduate students, loans are what you can get. There is no PELL or other financial aid grant for graduate schools and they do not tend to give financial aid in grant form. It’s loans. So your EFC is not going to matter.</p>

<p>Most of our peers and my kids’ who have gone on to graduate studies have gotten some sort of stipend or fellowship due to their high interest, accomplishments and GRE test scores. A lot of times, knowing someone in the department has been the case, too. For PHD programs, free tuition and a stipend is usually given in exchange for the candidate doing work, like teaching classes, doing recititions, lab work, research, writing, grading paper. PHD candidates are essentially the professors’ employees.</p>

<p>So some sort of connection, experience, expertise in the field is essential to get this sort of position. And yes, usually such universities provide some form of living quarters and the work pays enough so the student can devote full time to the department (not just in classes but doing WORK for the department) so the expenses are fully covered. Such students may even be supporting a family. It is really a full time job. Because teaching, research, writing, evaluating are all essential parts of such position, those so accepted are usually good students in that field of study. In other words, you are expected to hit the ground running in being able to work with undergraduates taking those courses. If you are not so qualified, getting such a position is nigh impossible, as they are difficult to get anyways. </p>

<p>For those looking to get into such a field from the ground up, meaning a lot of undergraduate classes have to be taken, it is usually on you in terms of cost, and you have to borrow it. When you get enough knowledge and proficiency to be useful to a department, then you can try to get a stipend position.</p>

<p>Usually anything that pays and provides the tuition are PHD positions. Not end of the line Masters or any of the professional degrees that are expected to be the money makers for a school. Schools do not have to subsidize such programs because there are enough people out there willing to pay for them, and loans are available. Not so for an arts and sciences PHD program, which is why these stipends and fellowships exist.</p>

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<p>Hi Sybbie,</p>

<p>Thanks for your reply. The one thing that I am well versed in is federal aid (or at least I use to be). In my original post, I didn’t mean to inquire about the likelihood of myself getting federal aid. I already know that I’m unable to receive any due to having an undergraduate degree.
I was curious though if it’s even possible for me to raise my gpa through taking undergraduate biology courses (that I will need anyway to be able to pursue a higher level biology degree). Also, if I’m able to score high on the GMAT/GRE would these two steps combined help me in obtaining aid to pursue my desired degree?</p>

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<p>It’s not just federal aid that will be a problem for you. Actually, you would be eligible for federal loans. But colleges themselves do not tend to fund second bachelor’s degrees. Yes, you could take courses in, say Bio, on the undergraduate level but YOU will have to pay for them. And to get yourself up to the level where you are competitive with those who graduated as Bio majors and are continuing their education in that field is a pretty tall order. Not saying it can’t be done, it’s just expensive and not easy and you aren’t going to get much if any help in this endeavor.</p>

<p>A dear friend and neighbor of mine graduated with a poli sci degree many years ago She decided she wanted to become a doctor. She had to take all of the courses so required, and their pre requs, even repeating some that she took many years ago in order to become current in the material. She started at community college, taking what she could of those courses there since the cost was the least there and working here way up to the local state u. It was difficult, expensive and time consuming because as a part time non degree seeking student, she was last priority for getting some of the lab courses that have limited spots. All universities do have a pecking order on who get those spots first, and she was dead last and had to sit out a year due to those policies. Couldn’t get the O-Chem lab or course and that was critical for premed.</p>

<p>But she got straight A’s, got into med school on her second, not first try in applications, and is now a MD at age 60. So it can be done. Unlike med school, once a student is a viable candidate for a PHD program in the arts and sciences, there are stipends and fellowships and the schools tend not to charge tuition for graduate students so accepted. For med school you have to pay-she took out loads of loans. </p>

<p>The GRE is only a small part of what is examined. Your expertise in the field of academia for which you want advanced studies is important too, because grad students already proficient in the field are given jobs related to the field. So getting such a slot without a record of achievement in the course of study is highly problematic.</p>

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<p>Cpt,</p>

<p>I’m sorry for the confusion. When I was using the term aid, I was not referring to financial aid. I was referring to any aid in general (scholarships, fellowships etc). My apologies for not being more clear. I would be a graduate student, my fiance would be an undergraduate. I already understand the full requirements/process of federal financial aid as well as NYS Tap award, so I don’t need any clarification on those processes. I apologize for not mentioning that sooner. </p>

<p>As far as connections are concerned, I do have a parent who is high up in the administration field of my local public university. I’m unsure if these connections extend to local private universities as well. I’d have to ask. </p>

<p>I was originally planning on taking out loans for undergraduate biology courses (that are prerequisite requirements for my desired degree program). I need to do more research (understatement of the century!), but I’m assuming that these courses would be applied to my gpa. If so, I could use it to my advantage and raise my gpa. If I’m able to score well on my GRE test in the future, then maybe I could get accepted into a good program and at the very least get an assistantship (where I would be teaching etc. as you mentioned in exchange for tuition reimbursement). </p>

<p>I still need to further explore the options regarding undergraduate full ride scholarships. I just started reading the thread by “momfromtexas” to shed some light on that area. It seems like it is possible, as long as you have the gpa and test scores to back you. I don’t know what my fiances gpa was in high school, but I don’t think it was great. So I’m hoping if he scores high on the SAT’s and ACT’s that he may still be able to get admitted to a great program.</p>

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<p>Any aid you get for a PhD program will be MERIT from the schools that offer such fellowships/assistantships.</p>

<p>Having had a son go thru this last year, I can tell you that you’re going to need SUPER GRE scores and a tippy top GPA and great Letters of Recommendations and very good subject-related ECs/research. </p>

<p>Since there is a glut of bio majors seeking entrance into PhD programs, your competition is going to be very difficult. (mostly only the PhD programs are fully funded).</p>

<p>Even the (ha ha) safeties that my son applied to only accepted 10% of applicants…these were the mid-third tier schools. He is attending a top tier school that only accepted 3% of applicants…so you can see how rough it is. He had a perfect GPA, tippy top GRE scores, and the rest. </p>

<p>While it may be possible for you to take additional Bio classes to raise your subject GPA, it is going to be very difficult to raise it to the needed GPA…at least a 3.7 in the subject area. It will be quite costly to take all of those add’l classes as well.</p>

<p>Nearly all grad students have a 0 EFC unless they’re married to someone who is employed.</p>

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<p>You are unlikley to get undergraduate scholarships for a second ug degree. That might help your husband, but not you. As Momfromtexas states, her kids were not high flying academians, which is why that info is particularly valuable. Those with super high stats and test scores often have opportunities right out there. Others have to search, and she tells you how and where.</p>

<p>As far as connections in an arts and sciences discipline, we are not talking connections like who your parents know. The way it works is that if you are an excellent bio student, for example, in your undergraduate studies and interested in research and further studies, there usually are lab and other opportunities to do some work with the profs and their grad students in that department,and that can lead to connections in the field. </p>

<p>My son recently graduated and did quite well in his field of study. His profs at his college have told him of a number of graduate school opportunities and if he wanted to go to grad school in that discipline, they would be very helpful. If he turned around and wanted to study bio, like you, right at this point, he has zero in terms of useful connections. He needs to earn them. That’s how these academic connections work. It’s not a who do you know, so much as who have you worked with who can vouch for your work.</p>

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<p>Cpt,</p>

<p>I am not looking to receive a second bachelors degree. I would like to pursue a graduate degree (most likely doctorate) in an unrelated field. So, I would be going from Finance and Information Technology Management to Biology. I am not interested in obtaining a bachelors in Biology. I’m just referring to the requirement of having a strong biology background when applying to biology programs. </p>

<p>As far as schools having a pecking order when it comes to getting in on classes: I definitely remember that I was giving preference during my undergraduate coursework. I was planning on declaring biology as my major to avoid this issue. </p>

<p>I understand about the GRE being only a small portion of what is examined. I was hoping that that combined with my improved gpa and possibly my own research projects might improve my chances. I was hoping to that it might show that I have initiative if I’m taking coursera.com courses as well. I really need to purchase a few books on these subjects to expand (and refresh!) my knowledge base.</p>

<p>Can you describe what you mean by a record of achievement? Do you mean having an undergraduate degree in that field already?</p>

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<p>Though high GRE scores are part of the picture, from my experience, the courses in the discipline taken, the grades in them, the professors with whom you study, how far up in difficulty you go in the discipline and what extra work, research, publications are very important.</p>

<p>My friend’s DD is in a prestigious PHD program with low GREs. She never tested well, but graduated Summa Cum Laude, earned her Phi Beta Kappa key and took advanced and difficult courses in her discipline and won the support of her professors who helped her get a research assistantship for a term in her field, and despite lousy GREs was accepted to a top program. I believe Mini’s daughter faced the same issue–did not test well but did well. But it all is in the package and high GREs are essential if you don’t have other thing tip top. </p>

<p>But there are limited,very limited paid spots for PHD programs, so getting one with the fellowships and stipends is a competitive process.</p>

<p>IMO, as I wrote to you on another thread, the best way to get a foot hold in what you want to do and for funding is to get a job at a college that gives free tuition to you and your husband. That and whatever government aid he can get, and loans can carry you a long ways, until you are competitive for a graduate fellowship.</p>

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<p>The most important thing in getting a graduate school spot with a fellowship or stipend is your track record in that discipline in the undergraduate courses. That track record is composed of the quality, difficulty, and advanced info in the courses you take in that specific discipline, the grades you receive, the research and papers you write as you take upper level courses in that discipline, and the recommendations you get from your professors. </p>

<p>Whether you are looking for a second bachelor’s degree or not will not matter. The fact that you already have an ug degree and are taking ug courses is the issue. That fact eliminates you from a lot of financial aid, for example, right on the spot, and for scholarships as well. As a non matriculating student, you will not be on the same footing when taking undergraduate classes. If you “pretend” to be so, you have to apply as such, which leads to other complications. </p>

<p>People often do what you want to do. My one son is thinking of going into teaching and he doesn’t have a single education course. His girlfriend wants to get into a PT program and she needs bio and other sciences that she does not have. They both have ug degrees,and if they want to go into different fields, they will have to pick up the requisite courses to be eligible for such programs.</p>

<p>But when you want to take advanced departmental courses on the graduate level, you are joining the finest minds in that discipline. It’s not like you are taking a bio course like my son’s GF will have to do because the check list for the PT program has bio on it. You will need super bio, lots of bio, advanced bio and variations of bio and all the sciences so conncected with the bio and also do labs, research and papers on bio. That’s what the PHD programs want. If it’s a terminal masters you are seeking, well, they aren’t going to pay you for that. All self pay.</p>

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<p>

Technically, it won’t be possible for OP to raise her GPA to a 3.7 from a 3.2. The upper bound would probably be about 3.35. </p>

<p>I’m not finding this to be the most realistic of plans. Why biology? Why not do something with the degree you already have? And what background does the fiance have that he could better adapt?</p>

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<p>GRE scores are usually important for STEM majors, which Biology is.</p>

<p>*How likely is it for someone to get cost of living allowance when attending an undergraduate program in addition to full tuition? I’ve been researching this
and it doesn’t seem like it’s very likely. My finance wants to be able to focus solely on his coursework and take the maximum credits allowable. *</p>

<p>How old is the fiance?
Has he taken ANY college classes so far?</p>

<p>What was his high school GPA and SAT scores?</p>

<p>While it may be nice to focus solely on coursework, etc, usually only the wealthiest have that freedom…it’s a luxury. Most students have to work while attending school (work-study or other part time jobs) and full time work in the summer. Without parent support, most have to work full time and go to school part time.</p>

<p>I just don’t think you’re going to be able to find a situation that provides a free ride for your fiance and also one for you. If free rides were that easy to get, who’d ever pay?</p>

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<p>Cpt,</p>

<p>I definitely think the idea of getting a job at a university is a good way to go. I’m also wondering if I could improve my chances (in addition to taking the GRE) by prematurely beginning my desired research. As I mentioned in my pm, I also need to see if it’s possible to somehow lessen the blow of my gpa. Several other people have said this can be done if you’ve been out of school for awhile and the university itself is willing to work with you. I’m going to contact a few universities and see what I can uncover.
If all else fails, I’m definitely going to take you up on your other suggestions. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Syl,
You are correct, I would only be able to raise my gpa slightly if I went that route. </p>

<p>I have to Lol at your comment about this not being the most realistic of plans. Determination will do a lot for a person! </p>

<p>I want to change my field to biology because I already have my career goals in mind.
I want to do something that I’m passionate about. </p>

<p>The fiance doesn’t need to have a background in his desired field in order to succeed. Where would anyone get if that’s how they approached going to school? No where.
He’s a quick study, and has a near photographic memory. He’s interested in becoming a ND (Naturopathic Doctor), which generally requires a biology related undergraduate degree followed by a 4 year Naturopathic Doctor program (unfortunately, it’s not looking like there’s a lot of funding available for the 4 year program; mostly only from external sources).</p>

<p>Mom, The finance is in his 30’s and has never taken any classes. I honestly don’t know his high school gpa, but I remember him telling me awhile ago it wasn’t great. I don’t know how big of an effect his gpa will play in trying to get admitted to a school being that he graduated so long ago. He also never took the sat’s. </p>

<p>I have no qualms working while attending graduate school (I was working during my undergraduate years as well), so it may be in my best interest to find a position at a university. </p>

<p>I’m still optimistic that he and I may be able to get full tuition and even possibly cost of living covered, especially if I’m willing to work at the University. If all else fails, maybe I can just plan on buying a parcel of land near my school and living in an RV for awhile. :slight_smile: I just have to continue doing more research on what options I may have. If we both show initiative and I’m able to dramatically raise my gpa coupled with high test scores; (maybe interning/volunteering, beginning my research and trying to publish it, etc) then what better way to show a university that we would be great students.</p>

15

<p>If your fiance is in his 30s and never went to college, he is very much a non traditional student, and should probably seek programs for such. The best route, I have found for such students is to start taking a course or two on a non matriculated basis at a school and do very well in them. A college accepting him into a degree program is likely to want to screen him academically and have him take certain composition and math courses if he does not up to snuff where college freshmen should be. Such courses are usually non credit, and community college is often the best place for such students to start, simply because they have the infrastructure in place to transition such students into academia gradually with the support courses. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

16

<p>

You don’t see a contradiction here?</p>

<p>What $ would you buy a piece of land and an RV with? </p>

<p>Where will you do this interning/research/publishing before you have actually become a student? </p>

<p>It’s very unlikely that your fiance would walk into a full ride from a dead stop in his mid-thirties. As others have pointed out, he would more likely need to go to a community college for at least 2 years (hard if he has to work full time to pay for it as he goes). Then transfer somewhere else, where the possibility of a full ride is still slim (are you both expecting to go to the same place? How will that work?) </p>

<p>Will you be getting married somewhere along this trail? Having kids? You are talking about an odyssey that will, for the 2 of you, encompass 8-10 years at best. Years which you seem to be hoping will be largely funded by someone else (why?). </p>

<p>Determination is fine, but reality is reality and there needs to be a lot more consideration here than sheer optimism.</p>

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<p>* The [fiance] is in his 30’s and has never taken any classes. I honestly don’t know his high school gpa, but I remember him telling me awhile ago it wasn’t great. I don’t know how big of an effect his gpa will play in trying to get admitted to a school being that he graduated so long*</p>

<p>With not-so-great GPA, what school is going to admit him AND give him great aid?</p>

<p>Yes, his GPA from awhile ago will still matter for admittance. What do you expect the school to do? Admit him on his good looks, charm and promise to be a good student??? </p>

<p>What state are you in?</p>

<p>Your strategy needs to be sensible. Believe me, if it was possible for people to just go to school full time on other people’s money, don’t you think many more people would be doing this instead of being on unemployment, low-paying jobs, etc? </p>

<p>there isn’t a money tree out there for tuition. The system is set up so that students/parents are the primary payers for college. There are SMALL amounts of federal (and sometimes state) grant to help low income students with tuition. That doesn’t cover room, board, books, fees, personal expenses and transportation.</p>

<p>Since your fiance’s grades are modest, then likely he’ll need to start at a CC, get his grades up and find an affordable transfer route…maybe a nearby state school. While attending school, he’ll likely have to work full or near-full-time. </p>

<p>You seem to misunderstand financial aid. You seem to think that colleges have treasure chests of free money to hand out so that students have their costs covered. Only the tippy top schools have those, and your fiance won’t get accepted to those.</p>

<p>If you get a job at a university, you might have the benefit of free tuition while working full time AND going to school at night. But the school isn’t going to give you money for room and board, etc. You’d be an employee with a salary…that’s what you’d get. As for whether your fiance would also get free tuition, that would be up to the university. Some will let children of employees have free or half tuition scholarships. Maybe some will let spouses also have discounts…but again, the discounts would be for TUITION only…not room and board.</p>

18

<p>

And at that, some places will prorate the discounts depending on how long the employee has been there. People don’t necessarily just walk in on Day One and get free tuition for themselves and their family members.</p>

19

<p>^^
That makes sense.</p>

<p>I didn’t think that a new employee would get free tuition for self and family right from the “get go”. </p>

<p>I don’t know what the OP got her undergrad degree in, but usually entry level jobs at a univ don’t pay that much. And, I can imagine that an employee might have to have worked there for an amount of time (year??) in order to get tuition benefits…and maybe longer for spouse/child benefits???</p>

20

<p>If op is going to grad school as a university employee, many schools are not going to cover full time tuition because they don’t want it to get in the way of her primary responsibility - an employee of the university and doing the job that she will be paid to do. While universities may give full tuition benefits to dependent children, they may not give the same level of benefits to spouses. Also remember that any graduate tuition benefit over 5600 is taxable income to the employee. This means that the university will deduct the tax on the benefit from your paycheck.</p>