Advice on schools and future high school courses for someone thinking of STEM major

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I know I want to major in something in the STEM field, I really enjoy science and math much more than english, social studies, etc. I'm not sure what I want to do specifically, but computers really fascinates me, and I also think engineering would be really cool. I know they're both a lot of work though. I've also considered accounting. For some reason I really didn't mind doing all the tax sheets in Consumer Education. Anyways...</p>

<p>Stats:
I'm currently a junior who lives in Illinois. I go to a pretty well respected public school, and I'm taking almost the most rigorous course load I can. The only thing stopping me from taking the most rigorous courses is just personal interests. There's no way I was going to take AP Euro, AP class or not.
Female
My parents won't tell me their income, and they haven't said anything about financial aid necessity when I've asked, so I really have no clue there. I'll also contribute with the money from my job if necessary.
No good hooks, but my grandpa went to Yale, along with my dad and his sister and her husband. My grandma went to Northwestern if that matters.</p>

<p>Classes:</p>

<p>Freshman year:
Honors Physics PCB - A both semesters
Honors History of World Civilizations - A both semesters
Honors Freshman English - A both semesters
Advanced Algebra - A both semesters
Honors French 2 - A both semesters</p>

<p>Sophomore year:
Honors Sophomore English: B both semesters
Honors French 3: B, then A
Pre-Calculus - A then B
Honors Chemistry PCB - B both semesters
Sociology - 1 semester, A
Brain Studies - 1 semester, A
Marketing - 1 semester, A, but doesn't count towards academic GPA
Intro to business - 1 semester, A, but doesn't count towards academic GPA</p>

<p>cumulative UW: 3.7 (estimate)</p>

<p>Current course load:
Honors Junior English - currently a B
Honors French 4 - currently an A
AP US History - currently a B
AP Calc AB - currently a B
Honors Bio PCB - currently an A
Honors Consumer Education 1st semester - currently an A
I'm taking Public Speaking 2nd semester
My gym counts towards my academic GPA too - It's honors gym - currently getting an A</p>

<p>Predicted Senior year course load:
AP Psych
AP Stats
AP Bio or Chem
AP French or French 5 if it's offered
Honors English: College Writing and Literature
I'd love to be a senior peer group leader if I can (you have to apply) - not academic though
Early bird gym to make it all fit</p>

<p>I haven't actually taken the ACT yet - I'm taking it in December. My PLAN test predicted a 28-30, but that's without any prep courses or workbooks. I know that's probably not high enough for STEM, but I'm sure I can get at least a 32.</p>

<p>My school doesn't rank, nor does it give percentiles. I'd estimate top 25%, maybe 15%, but I really have no idea.</p>

<p>Extra curricular activities:
Erika's Lighthouse club - 9th-now, hopefully a leadership position this year
PAWS animal club 9, 11 - couldn't do it last year b/c of a schedule conflict
French National Honors society - Inducted end of last year, and I'll be in it until I graduate
Job as a sterilizer at an orthodontist's office a couple days a week, 6-10 hours a week, from the beginning of this school year, and I'm hoping to keep it until college starts as I really like it.</p>

<p>Are there any classes I should try to change for senior year? I can't really change anything this year because my schedule is really hard to change due to the times of the classes.</p>

<p>Classes that might be good to take:</p>

<p>Principles of applied science and technology - yearlong, not honors. Would probably have to replace the AP science.
Science Projects - 1 semester, honors available. It's basically a class where the students design the curriculum around science topics that interest them. So far, they haven't been able to get enough students to sign up to actually have the class.
Should I take BC calc instead of Stats? The teachers for stats are awesome though...</p>

<p>Are there any online classes that you would recommend I take? I'd really love to learn how to program and learn more about how computers work, but it would have to be through an online course.</p>

<p>What schools would you recommend I start to look at? Like I've said, I know I want to do something in the STEM field, but I'm not sure specifically what I want to do, so a school that is strong in all aspects of STEM would be great.</p>

<p>Thank you for any advice, I really appreciate it.</p>

2

<p>Firstly, please try talking to your parents about finance. You need them to know that for any sort of financial aid, their income will need to be disclosed to the colleges you apply to. Otherwise, you, the student, will be expected to pick up the full tab. So get on your parents’ side asap. Tell them you’ll apply for as many scholarships as you can find and contribute your own savings/salary. You don’t need to know their precise income yourself. But you need them to do one of those expected family contribution calculators online which will let them see how much they’d be expected to contribute annually out of pocket or commercial loans (including commercial loans to you but co-signed by them). They can let you know how much college (if any) they can help with above and beyond the basic federal funding available to you. This will help narrow down likely choices. Do start researching scholarships as there should be a number for females interested in STEM as well as local, state and others. </p>

<p>I’d go for the ‘purest’ academic course load you can. Yes, it’s subjective and snobby but if admission at ‘amazing college’ is between you and someone else with exactly the same GPA etc, they’ll see the AP math course as ‘purer’ than AP stats or Computer Science. Same with World or US History ranking over Art History. Physics or Chemistry over Environmental Science. </p>

<p>So, I’d recommend, if your schedule permits, and your school allows, to take BC Calculus instead of Stats, AP Literature instead of the College Honors writing and Lit, and swap out the psychology in order to take both biology and chemistry. </p>

<p>As for the online courses, I wouldn’t. Spend that time bringing up your B’s in English and Calculus to A’s. By all means enjoy reading around science and doing small projects for fun. All good for future applications and your own sanity. </p>

<p>When choosing a college, as well as finance, perhaps consider one that offers as many possible majors in STEM and accounting as possible in order to change with ease as interests develop. </p>

<p>And also try to get some knowledge of different careers where you can, even its just to talk to someone. Think beyond your gender. How about civil engineering? Aeronautics? Indeed, building surveying might be a really good match for you…</p>

3

<p>Your parents need to tell you the price limit and some financial information to run net price calculators on, or be willing to run the net price calculators on each school you name to tell you if they are affordable.</p>

<p>If your parents refuse do the above (which usually indicates that they are unable or unwilling to contribute much, but may have high enough income to disqualify you from sufficient financial aid – and you live in Illinois, where the state universities give poor financial aid even to in-state students), you may want to look at this list to see if you can find any low cost safeties in it:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>For non-safeties, you may also want to consider:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Consider taking both the ACT and SAT, since some students do better on one compared to the other.</p>

<p>Yes, calculus BC is generally seen as preferable over statistics for someone intending to major in something math-heavy (which is most STEM subjects other than biology).</p>

4

<p>Since you’re a junior, tell your parents you want to start looking at colleges and if you’re at a decent school, also want them to meet with you and your school’s college advisor. As soon as the Jan 1 application deadline is gone is a good time to do it. You should also plan to use your upcoming spring break to take a look at some schools.</p>

<p>I’m not going to suggest any, because the whole idea about telling your parents you want to visit schools and to meet with the college advisor is all sorts of things come naturally from those meetings without you having to raise awkward questions like “Hey dad, what’s your annual income?” The college advisor should bring up the idea of cost and how much they can pay, they will also take a look at your grades and test scores up to now, even the PLAN helps, and tell you what schools you should be looking at.</p>

<p>Failing anything else, given your family’s college history, I’d hazard a guess that your parents income is going to preclude any need-based financial aid, which cuts off above $150K. Another way of phrasing it, if you want to ask right now, is to ask your parents what level of school you should be looking at cost-wise. Given their college history, four Yale grads in the family, I’m sure they know the ropes, so if they say it’s not an issue, assume that it isn’t.</p>

<p>The key is, start the discussion now. It’s time.</p>

5

<p>for a STEM prospie, take Calc BC instead of AP Psych.</p>

6

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<p>However, those Yale graduates are from an older generation when college was a lot less expensive (even after adjusting for CPI inflation) than it is now. So there are two not-so-good possibilities:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>They looked at the price of Yale, were shocked, and don’t know how to break the news to you that they may not be able to afford to send you there (or even UIUC).</p></li>
<li><p>They have not looked at how much colleges cost these days, tell you not to worry about it, but then you will be in for huge letdown in April when all of the schools that you get admitted to are too expensive.</p></li>
</ul>

7

<p>All that’s a possibility, but given the four Yale grads, plus a Northwestern grad, I’m going to assume that it’s at least been the topic of dinner conversation at some point. Even if it’s “Can you believe what Yale charges nowadays? We could never afford to go there now.”</p>

<p>Instead, based on OPs description, I’m imagining she lives in Chicago, possibly Winnetka, New Trier HS, dad works in the city, and makes a decent living in law or accounting.</p>

8

<p>Thanks for the help everyone :)</p>

<p>Bluebayou, that’s an interesting suggestion to take 2 math classes. Would it be better to not take 4 years of social studies courses and instead take 5 years of math classes?</p>

<p>To everyone talking about price - MrMom62 basically got it. It’s not New Trier, but it’s a school in the same area, and it’s still a good school. Dad does work in the city, and he also lives there as my parents are separated. I don’t really see him often, and I think I’ve talked about college a bit too much - he never seems like he wants to talk about it. My school starts allowing juniors to meet with the college counselor 2nd semester, so I’ll try to schedule something then. My mom didn’t go to college, so no offense to her, but she’s not much help. My dad is going to be the one paying and everything.</p>

9

<p>About the Calc BC suggestion, you’re in Calc AB now, it’s unusual to then take Calc BC. Around here, you take one or the other, as they are the same class at the beginning, Calc BC just covers more material.</p>

<p>You have never taken an AP English class. Consider AP Lang or Lit. Yes, it will be torture for you, but it looks good and will really prepare you for college level English classes, which are inevitable. AP Lang tends to be less time consuming, unless you are a very strong reader.</p>

<p>If your HS allows it, consider taking your senior gym class online, just to reduce your senior load and allow you to get some sleep. MU High School offers a widely accepted online gym class, and I think BYU High School does as well. You can do it in a few weeks over the summer.</p>

10

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<p>This complicates the college financing situation. If the parents are unable to agree on who contributes how much (i.e. each is trying to minimize his/her own contribution), then it is entirely possible that their (combined) actual contribution will be much lower than what the colleges expect them to contribute (which may be full price if one or both is high income and/or assets).</p>

<p>If you are unable to get a straight answer from them, have large merit scholarship schools as your backup options. Those Yale diplomas in your family will not, by themselves, pay for an education at Yale for you.</p>

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<p>That could be because he really does not have the money. Separation or divorce can be very damaging to both spouses’ personal finances.</p>

11

<p>Actually in some high schools, advanced math students take Calc AB junior year and Calc BC senior year. It really depends on the high school.</p>

<p>I second the suggestion of AP English Language and Composition to help you deal with college-level English classes.</p>

<p>It’s also possible your dad never wants to talk about it because he’s decided he won’t or only minimally contribute. You NEED to have a direct answer.
If your mom is your custodial parent some schools won’t take into account your dad’s income, but virtually all schools that have good financial aid will require him to contribute.
To prevent a problem, look both at schools that meet need and schools where you could get merit aid.</p>

12

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<p>Uh, not social science.</p>

<p>I do, however, recommend 4 years each of the traditional core subjects (math, history, english, foreign language, science). But a STEM wannabe will never get marked down for taking an extra math class, particularly if the alternative is AP Psych.</p>

13

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<p>That seems to be common, based on comments on these forums, even though it makes no sense. Students who are good enough in math to be two grade levels ahead in math should be able to handle BC (including AB) in one year right after completing precalculus (same pace as in college).</p>

14

<p>^^Actually, it (only) makes sense to the district office, who has staffing issues and/or concern that Calculus is such a different animal that the (top) math kids need to be eased into it over two years. :D</p>

<p>But yeah, from a student’s perspective, it is dumb, dumb, dumb.</p>

15

<p>Of course, we also recently saw that some district somewhere not only has AP Calc, they also have AP Honors Calc. Which makes no sense whatsoever.</p>

<p>No one ever went broke underestimating the common sense of administrators of a school district.</p>

16

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<p>The only staffing issues that could possibly explain it is if there are not enough (or any) teachers who can handle a full-speed BC course, or if they somehow have a surplus of math teachers that they have to make work for.</p>

<p>The other explanation is that the district (or parents) push a lot of students further ahead in math than they otherwise should be, so that almost all of those reaching calculus as juniors are good-but-not-great students in math who may have trouble with a full-speed BC course (especially with junior-year grade grubbing for college applications).</p>

17

<p>^^the staffing issue is that the HS doesn’t have enough students to fill classes both AB and BC to Juniors.</p>

<p>The staffing issue also arises if a bunch of students take BC as a Junior, the HS has no higher level math to offer them for senior year. (AP Stats won’t cut it, since strong math students can easily double with precalc and Stats.)</p>

18

<p>Does anyone really think colleges are impressed by taking an AP course that is basically a 50% repeat of a previous AP course vs. taking a completely new topic in math, even if it is “easier”?</p>

<p>There are plenty of kids at D’s HS that take BC junior year and then take AP Stat rather than Calc III. No one takes AB junior year and BC senior year. The kids that take any of those courses, including AB senior year, all do fine if they have the other things that go with getting into someplace good.</p>

19

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<p>A student in that situation would have two possibilities:</p>

<ul>
<li>Try to arrange to take more advanced math at a local college.</li>
<li>Have another slot for a free elective in the high school schedule.</li>
</ul>

<p>Either seems to be preferable for a top-end math student than being forced to spread calculus over two years when s/he can handle it in one year.</p>

20

<p>I don’t disagree with you ucbalumnus, but many apparently districts do. :)</p>

<p>And I suspect that they disagree comes down to dollars and sense (primarily), and educational concern* (secondarily).</p>

<ul>
<li>A lot of counselors/teachers want to slow down advancement of the top students (for all kinds of reasons). Not saying I agree, but such an attitude is pervasive in our public district’s academia.</li>
</ul>

<p>btw: if I recall, a California K-12 district has to pay extra to have a student educated/take a course at the local college.</p>