<p>Though they’ll give you a great answer, firstie CPME covers promotion and lots of the things we are interested about (like your question). We’ve had classes on moving, bases, promotion boards, OPRs, EPRs, etc. etc. Firstie CPME is actually useful. So, you’ll have that to look forward to at least.</p>
<p>Good to know.</p>
<p>I hope we still get to review things like customs and courtesies though. I haven’t quite figured out how to salute in the past three years.</p>
<p>the test was actually useful as well. no irrelevant questions this go around.</p>
<p>I will let Bullet and Flieger answer that question to the nines. The only things I can say is that I will say you are right, it is DP, P and DNP. There is a second section that has BPZ, PZ and IPZ.</p>
<p>People need to understand that 2 below does not mean 2 yrs, it means 2 boards. If the boards speed up to a 6-9 month turn you can go from BPZ to IZ within a yr. </p>
<p>They can inform you on how the inner workings work. Listen to them, because it really takes plotting a career progression with PME/Education and Upgrading to get to that elusive Flag Officer. </p>
<p>Rand did a study yrs ago saying that Generals children statistically had a higher chance of making General. If you took that at face value you would think that it is nepotism, but if you looked into it deeper, you would see they had a true mentor for them, just as you have here or on <a href=“http://www.serviceacademyforums.com%5B/url%5D”>www.serviceacademyforums.com</a> to navigate the waters and correct the mistakes they made in their own career regarding filling squares. Always realize IMHO that the guy/gal who is the same rank, but showed up 30 days earlier has wisdom to impart upon you. Never believe you are the next Pardo or Olds. </p>
<p>God Bless may you always be safe and remembered in our hearts!</p>
<p>GOOD LUCK 2010!</p>
<p>Bullet, chime in on this…</p>
<p>Okay…PRF: Promotion Recommendation AF Form 709…9 lines of your entire military career for all to see. Well, not really ALL, just several groups of about 4 Colonels and 1 Brigadier General. These are the members of a promotion board that will “score” your entire promotion brief and ultimately determine whether or not you’re promoted.</p>
<p>Note I said “9 line of your ENTIRE MILITARY CAREER…” That’s ALL that is placed on the front of the form. These normally are extracted by your rating official from your previous OPR’s and placed on this form. Note…ONLY 9 LINES…that’s NOT a lot to look at and from a reviewers position (remember, they may be looking at up to 1300 or so of these in 4 days of review, depending upon the grade being considered for promotion) they need to “GRAB” and “STAND OUT” a LOT to get attention.</p>
<p>(One other thing, OPRs are not the only source of information used…the form tells the senior rater to review previous OPRS, Education/Training Reports, Supplemental Evaluation Sheets, and other reliable information that is NOT contained in OPRs…they are to evaluate the ratee’s whole potential.)</p>
<p>But let’s digress a bit. As previously stated, there are the 9 lines but then there’s a block that literally is LIFE OR DEATH for an officer’s promotion potential: Section IX “OVERALL RECOMMENDATION.” There are only three choices here for the senior rater:</p>
<p>DEFINITELY PROMOTE<br>
PROMOTE
DO NOT PROMOTE THIS BOARD</p>
<p>That’s it.</p>
<p>But there’s more to it than that. You’ll see a block that asks whether or not you’re “Below the Promotion Zone” or “In/Above the Promotion Zone.” Yes, they discriminate! If you’re BPZ" then the odds are LOOOONG on being selected but the fact you’re being nominated at all is BIG…you WILL get a good look. If you’re “In” the zone, this is your “primary” or normally “first” board. This is the ONE you want to be selected on!!! Because if you’re NOT, then you become “Above” the zone (that’s militarese for passed over at least once). Odds for APZ folks are VERY long…</p>
<p>But it doesn’t stop there…then there’s the block where your senior rater will tell the board how many “Definitely Promote” recommendations he’s allowed to give, where you are IF you have a DP, and how many folks are meeting this board. Example: you have done well and have been rewarded with a “DP” so your block says: 3/23/89 This means you’re the #3 DP he/she can award, there are 23 total DP’s they can award, and there are 89 total for the board. In other words, you look REALLY good!</p>
<p>Note…ONLY DP’s get ranked: if you get a “PROMOTE” you don’t get ranked. You’re just tossed into the mix…</p>
<p>Are you getting the feeling that a “PROMOTE” is NOT a great thing? If so, then I’m doing my job: IT’S NOT A GOOD THING!</p>
<p>Okay…so…the board meets…the 2 Star in Charge (yep, we get a Major General to be the BOSS and several Brigadiers to oversee a LOT of Colonels) will inform the board members that there are “XX” slots to promote. Then they go over all the files.</p>
<p>So…how do the PRF’s really come into play? Simple really. Let’s say the AF says they can promote 139 Lt Col’s to Colonel on this board. We have 845 Lt Col’s meeting the board. There are 157 DP’s, 656 P’s, and 32 DNP’s. Do a quick look; who do you think are competing for the 139 slots? The answer is: ONLY FOLKS WITH A DP.</p>
<p>The 688 others are immediately DONE. They’re passed over; cursory look, and that’s it.</p>
<p>Harsh? Yes. Cruel? Yep. Fair? Probably not; it’s debateable. The way it is: YESSIR!</p>
<p>Last thing…your PRF will not be a total surprise…you’re required to receive a copy NLT 30 days prior to your promotion board meeting. And if you believe it’s not accurate, that things you think should be included have not been, etc., you are EXPECTED to bring it up to your senior rater!</p>
<p>So…the bottom of ALL this: YOU WANT A DP EVERY TIME! SO bust your A**, be the VERY BEST you can be at whatever you do.</p>
<p>Does this help?</p>
<p>Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83</p>
<p>Great info. Thanks very much.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>To me that is something you should all drill in your head now! I can tell you that Bullet and I know soooo many officers who never reviewed and was SHOCKED, I say SHOCKED when they got passed over because then they go and look at and see that the PRF had wrong info. They then go to the appeal board to have the new info taken into acct and are SHOCKED when they still don’t get promoted. Of everyone we knew that appealed the promotion decision, NOT ONE got the decision reversed. Bullet and I always say privately what did they expect? The board to say we screwed up? Of course the board isn’t going to say that!</p>
<p>APZ is also a rarity, I think we only knew 1 person in 20 yrs that got picked up, anda that was a guy who appealed the previous board with his new info.</p>
<p>The other thing you want written on your PRF is SEND TO PME SISTER SCHOOL NOW!</p>
<p>Getting ahead, but understand, your rack and stack number will affect if you can go to PME in residence. NO DP and the chances are better at getting hit by lightening or winning Mega Millions Lottery than going to PME in residence.</p>
<p>Why is it important to go to PME in residence? Because as Flieger stated it is your entire career fit into 9 lines. To state you went to a sister school means a lot. Only 10-15% of your entire board will go to PME in residence, out of that %, only 10% will go to a sister school. In other words you are the top of the top. To say you went to AWC(AIR WAR COLLEGE O5) is one thing to say you went to NWC (NATIONAL) is totally different. Both are great and to be commended, but National carries a big signal to the board.</p>
<p>Bullet went to CGSC aka AF ACSC, right after he graduated and before he stepped into his next assignment he came up for O5. We were positive since they did not know him he would get a P. To his surprise he got a DP. Why? Because he had PME in residence at a sister school, the others in his office didn’t have that, thus the commander even without knowing him or working with him knew that he had filled that 1 more square than his peers. Not fun to walk into an office on the 1st day with 4 others meeting the same board who worked there for a yr or more and be the only one with a DP from that boss! It happens we are living proof.</p>
<p>One other thing is to also understand, is that DP’s are limited. The base will only be given X amt of DPs to shell out for the entire base. That means if you get that DP the base is sending a signal that you are the best of the best there.</p>
<p>It really is a bottom up review process.</p>
<p>You will know if you get a P or a DP or a DNP before the board meets. Then you will go into the wait mode. The whole process actually is about 4-5 months of your life where you sit on pins and needles. Even as a DP you worry because not everyone with a DP will be eligible to apply for PME in residence. You don’t worry about being promoted you worry about not being able to go to school. </p>
<p>It is important to also understand you can’t just say I am going to apply for PME in residence. THEY decide who can and who can’t apply. Of course that now puts you into a whole new spin cycle because you apply yrly for the school slot and again meet boards that will rack and stack you. Typically, very few get in a PME on their 1st board, it is your final board that most get picked up.</p>
<p>One other thing is to remember to plot your PCS’s if you can. You don’t want to show up on base and be hit with a PRF in the 1st 6 months. Yes, it worked for us, but that was school. I am talking coming in fresh with no school. The reality is as I stated earlier the base hands out the DPs and if you have no job and are new to the base, they don’t know you and are less likely to give you a DP over someone who has proven themselves at that base. Caveat BPZ in your records, you will get that DP to a certain rank. BPZ O5 you will get DP for O6, but once you hit O6 it is now a whole new game for that BPZ.</p>
<p>You will see guys PCS early or late because they are coming up for a board. They want to either be there long enough at the new base to be competitive or stay longer so they are competitive.</p>
<p>The last thing is 99% of you will be hit with a REMOTE. Plot that. If you know you are coming close to being on the “HOT LIST”, contact AFPC and say I will volunteer to go if you send me at this time. You typically don’t want to be on a remote and hit a board.</p>
<p>One of the factors that made Bullet hit the retirement button was he was rare, he never did a remote and AFPC told him he was #1 in the AF (THE ENTIRE AF, not just STRIKES) to get a remote. It was timing. Had he not put in his retirement papers, he would have met his BPZ O6 at a remote and then he would have come back as the new guy and hit IZ O6 withing 90 days.</p>
<p>Too all of our well informed posters:
It would be to all cadets/plebes, high school student, and uninformed parents if you could explain your miltary abbreviations. It sounds as though there is some very important information being shared which could assist our future officer in navigating there careers but no one but the well informed understand what is being said.
PME?
PRF?
CGSC?
DP?
AFSC?
P/DP/DNP?
PCS?
BPZ?
OPR?
IPZ?
AD?
ANG?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Fair question…sometimes we get busy with the message and forget that someone will read it that’s not familiar with the terms/acronyms.</p>
<p>PME: Professional Military Education. This is CRUCIAL if you wish to succeed…there are 3 main programs for officers: SOS (Squadron Officers School), ACSC (Air Command and Staff College) and AWC (Air War College). They are done by: SOS (1Lt/Capt), ACSC (Majors), AWC (LtCol’s and Col’s)</p>
<p>PRF: Explained above</p>
<p>CGSC: Command and General Staff Course (Army mid-level PME, AF equiv is ACSC)</p>
<p>DP: Definitely Promote on PRF, explained above.</p>
<p>AFSC: Explained above.</p>
<p>P/DP/DNP: Explained above.</p>
<p>PCS: Permanent Change of Station: TIME TO MOVE TO ANOTHER BASE!!</p>
<p>BPZ: Explained above</p>
<p>OPR: Officers Performance Report: your annual report card.</p>
<p>IPZ: Explained above.</p>
<p>AD: Active Duty.</p>
<p>ANG: Air National Guard or Army National Guard although most Army types will say ArNG for some reason.</p>
<p>Hope this helps!</p>
<p>Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83</p>
<p>My son just graduated from the air force academy may 2009, is up before the review board in 1 week for possible discharge from the air force. He is in a unique situation in that he was chosen for the pilot program but unable to complete it and was going to be reassigned. He was waiting for his new assignment when his wing commander told him his name was on the list. His health is great, his grades were great, no disciplinary problems at the academy. The air force is all he ever wanted to do, and this just breaks my heart. Did he just pull the short straw? They also said he could have to repay the tuition even though he would not be discharged for any other reason other than RIF. There is something wrong with this.</p>
<p>I have to commend this AF thread; you guys [in this AF thread] are SO lucky to have input such as this that is positive, informative, and helpful. If only the Navy threads were such. Good luck and keep posting this “long-term” perspective kind of information. I even referred my Marine son to this particular one so he could extract what might be useful to him. Great job!
[I wonder if the RIF will hit Marines or not? Seems that Navy recently announced to some 2009 grads who are backed up in aviation pipeline that some might be “eligible” for early discharge w/ no obligation. w/ implication that if not enough volunteered, some might be “voluntold”.]</p>
<p>murphy</p>
<p>Back in the late 80’s before the RIF of 91-92, the writing was on the wall regarding RIF. We were young and the internet did not exist, but I can see the simiiarities now.</p>
<p>Bullet was commissioned in 87, however, some in the 86 commission class was allowed the option to leave with no payback the day after graduation. Fliers duty report day was extended from 30 days to months (pipeline slowing down). Pilots he knew that washed out of UPT were separated and came back in as navs, but from the guard or they were given a desk. 5 yrs later (91-92). The AF RIF’d 95% of the reserve commissioned officers for 85/86. (Acad grads were safe because they had a full commissioning). Looking back the signs were there that life was going to change. Honestly, IMHO the only reason it didn’t happen earlier was due to Gulf 1, and that actually saved them. Prior to Gulf 1, the A-10 and EF-111 would have been boneyarded, the Gulf saved them because of their success.</p>
<p>I can say that when it happened back in the 90’s they say the repayment for CYA purposes. If the wing king pulled him personally to say he was on the list, then he just pay attention to that. A wing king is not going to blow smoke up his arse. He is going to say the truth, he is actually giving him the option to take the pre-RIF offer. </p>
<p>The truth is there is a piece missing here and that is why he was unable to complete the program for UPT. You state it was not disciplinary or medical, which means it only leaves one other reason. The wing king is being honest and you may find it to be brutally honest, but he is saying that your DS not completing UPT is behind the 8 ball compared to other 09 commissioned cadets since they are now completing their schooling and will be entering the op world soon. He will have to explain why he could not complete UPT and why it is worth them to cut the other guy who completed his desk school program over him.</p>
<p>It hurts, I know that and I get that, but the AF is a business, they have a budget and requirements. They are looking at this from a business standpoint and not personal. They have an 09 AFA grad who is finishing up Intel school and an AFA 09 who did not complete UPT, who should they keep? Should they risk cutting that Intel person who graduated or slide the UPT student into the intel school slot? Slide that UPT person and now they just created another issue…that UPT student transitioning into the next Intel class will have a snowball effect that will effect the class of 10.</p>
<p>I have stated before and will say it again, don’t go into the AFA because you will be the next Doolittle or Robin Olds. You go into wear the uniform, and that is the only reason.</p>
<p>Bullet and I have talked about this RIF often in the past few weeks. DS who opted ROTC over the AFA is now saying it is apparent there too. For 09,10, and 11 you will see pipelines slow down. ROTC is now turning to 10 and 11 graduates saying fly be free because of your gpa we will not commission you. Cadets at DS’s det are now freaking since the gpa is being raised, and PFA is a factor regarding getting commissioned. If you paid attention to the ROTC scholarships you could have seen the writing on the wall yrs ago. ROTC now offers scholarships in small amts, because there are too many applicants compared to yrs ago with full rides.</p>
<p>Bullet had sat down with our DS a couple of weeks ago and explained how it actually works. Short story, AFPC can only predict a couple of yrs in the future regarding man power, how the economy acts/reacts is a big impact on the military, and there is a lag time. Great economy…AD will dive…Bad…they will stay! The economy stinks right now and many military members who thought they would 5 and dive have decided to stay for the safety of a paycheck. Economy growing and they will dive. </p>
<p>Believe it or not this isn’t a DOD issue regarding to RIF or not too RIF, it is an economy issue that forced the DOD to RIF.</p>
<p>Bill, the “eligible” for early discharge with no harm no foul is a warning sign to classes behind these cadets. The next thing that will happen is newly commissioned officers will do casual status because they are slowing down the amount of AD entering operational world. After that if they can’t slow down the flow you will see UPT students washed out instead of washed back, and that is where murphy’s ds is at.</p>
<p>Had he graduated back in 99 instead of 09, he would have been washed back, now because they have more in the pipeline than they need, he was washed out.</p>
<p>I appreciate your responses. He was not rotc, just worked hard and got the nominations. He has a top notch education and will land on his feet. On the upside, before he was accepted into the pilot program, he was interested in JAG. He had talked about the FLEP program when he (I hate this word) washed out. His brother is army and also talked to him about the blue to green program. So I am hoping that law school still may be his next move. I know he is majorly stressed. His sponsor family has also been exploring job leads in other areas. I know he will land on his feet, but I can still hope that the review board will see the great officer that a lot of other people see. I will find out in a week.</p>
<p>Murphy,</p>
<p>I am a spouse of a retired O5 (ret 2008), and not a military member, but I will say that after bring married to him for 20 yrs before he retired I can count on 1 HAND those that beat the review board.</p>
<p>I know that is hard to read, and heartbreaking, but as a parent I think it is important you prepare him for the bad instead of propping him up for the good.</p>
<p>2 yrs ago Bullet was President of an FEB at an FTU base. It was emotionally hard on him. He knew that their decision would effect his life forever. However, he had to be the officer of the AF and remove his personal opinions. He had to instruct the board to look at the facts and not the person. This AD member enlisted AD at 18, got a colleges degree before 23 made it through OTS and UPT. He had given yrs to the AF, more than your son, but from an AF leadership standpoint it was just facts, he didn’t make the cut and there was no going back.</p>
<p>When Bullet went through FTU he was doubled crewed (rare, rare among rare). He had 2 AFA grads as his crew mate. One was a FAIP, the other busted his last ride before the check ride, and he met an FTU board. They took his wings. God makes his plans and laughs at us if we try to change them.</p>
<p>AS far as washed out. I understand how it can be salt in the wound. Trust me, we know a lot of wash backs and wash outs, that one point in their life motivated them to be the success in their next stage. </p>
<p>Right now IMHO yo need to step back and let him absorb what he needs to do and just stand there with the safety net. Every parent wants to help, but I will say if this was our DS’s scenario (class of 12), I would stand back because even Bullet retiring in 08. military life has changed in 4 yrs. You need to let them lick their wounds.</p>
<p>I know that is my personal opinion and your family may be different. However, I have to ask how do you think he feels if his brother is not being RIF’d and he is? How do you think he feels if this is the only thing the family talks about when they talk to him? We do lose sight that sometimes our intentions as well meaning as they are intended are misplaced.</p>
<p>Bullet has defense contractor connections at the Pentagon and I am sure he would be willing to help, BUT, the reality is that it may be more salt in the wound. Hate to say it but the sponsors finding him a job could be salt too. Not saying you don’t comprehend the pain, but to me this is like setting him up on a blind date after his girlfriend refused his marriage proposal. It takes time, it takes following their lead. </p>
<p>To them this a DEATH, you need to address it that way. You would never ask your Mother if she is “OKAY” or “WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS NOW?” if she just lost the love of her life that she had for 50% of her life. I.E. he wanted AF Fighters since he was 11 (that is 1/2 of his life). He spent the last 1/4 of his life getting there …started AFA plan at 17 and now he is 23. His entire adult life was built up to this moment. </p>
<p>As I said it is hard, you want to hold him, you want to fix it, you just want him to be happy. The best thing you can do is to listen, and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. You need to just be there, he will come out from the dark side. He will figure it out. He will be happy again.</p>
<p>YOU NEED TO VENT TO US, BUT LET HIM TAKE THE LEAD IN HIS LIFE</p>
<p>Bullet,
Your advice was great. Now what advice do you have for parents of future cadets. This notice from Murpy has made me think twice about the AF. In my research USAFA has the lowest number of applicants out of the big three SA’s. Could it be that the AF is developing an reputation of eating it young?</p>
<p>Bullet, you are so right in what you said. I have stayed in the background and just tried to help him when he asks for stuff. But other than that, as hard as it is for me, he is a grown man and while I can truly imagine this will be one of the worse things that will happen to him, it is not the end of the world. As a parent, and having one son already gone through one deployment (his twin), the worse thing for me would to lose my son. Having him unemployed just puts me in the ranks with the rest of the country. He is a smart cookie, so I imagine he is already planning his next move. And as far as pumping him up, he is very aware of the fact that he will not survive the review board. He does not think he will get a last minute stay of execution. And actually, he and my husband talk mostly about cars and motorcycles. This is like in the white elephant, we all know it is there, but we don’t talk about. When he comes out on the otherside, and wants input from mom and dad, we will be there. But until then, I just tell hiim I love him. I am glad I can vent, this just hurts so bad, don’t mean to be a weanie.</p>
<p>aseang, every branch eats their young. The difference is AFA is very young, it was opened after WWII, whereas other SAs have been around for centuries.</p>
<p>Do they eat their young in AD? YOU BETCHA! My response to you would be doesn’t the SEALS, RANGERS and DELTA eat their young too?</p>
<p>Like I said the AFA is young as far as an SA.</p>
<p>Murphy</p>
<p>I know how hard it hurts, I have seen wives endure this pain. I was 23 and watched wives pack up when the DH washed out. I saw it, lived it as a spouse and I get it. You love your son, but maybe this will make you realize that there is a wife, parents and in-laws enduring the same emotion as you. The worst part is you all feel helpless. Just trust me, they will make it over this hump. I can’t say if he will get past this or live “what if”, but he will smile again, he will laugh again. The day he says “I DO” to his wife this will not be on his mind. The day he holds his baby. this will not be an issue. </p>
<p>You just need to follow their lead. We have friends that washed back, washed out, SERB, and RIF’d. You need to follow their lead, you will want to help, but it is important to let them take control. Don’t talk about it unless they want to. Don’t ask what will you do now? Don’t call them. Let them take the lead and THUS CONTROL!</p>
<p>One thing I use to say to Bullet all the time when he fretted over his AF career, was said in anger. I would say to him “WHEN YOU DIE THE AF WON’T BE CRYING OVER YOUR GRAVE!” I strongly suggest you don’t say it now, but in the future when he has regrets remind him of what is truly important…if he is smart he will know that the AF is not number 1 in the rack and stack!</p>
<p>Bullet,
My only concern is to make a young Lt who just wash out of UPT pay back his education cost seems a bit harsh. Is there something in there contract that they sign at the beginning of there 3 degree year that would require them to pay back USAF. Would this be considered a RIF or what? Are all RIF’ed AFA graduates required to pay for there education? BTW friends son at USNA has heard no word of Academy graduates being RIF. Can an AFA graduates cross commission prior to reporting to AF.</p>
<p>I had always heard that the USAF was the most human of all military branches?</p>
<p>Absolutely no way anyone who made a good faith effort and failed will be required to pay back the cost of their education. A good first year law student could handle that one.</p>