Affirmative action hurts those it's supposed to help

<p>URM GPA 3.3 LSAT 152 Accepted By UCB, UCLA, U Penn and others.</p>

<p>White(& Asians) GPA 3.7 LSAT 166 rejected by UCB , UCLA and others.</p>

<p>Quote:</p>

<p><a href="http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/11/nj_judges_told_.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/11/nj_judges_told_.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Traditionally, critics of affirmative action have focused either on its unfairness to those groups that don't receive preferences (usually whites and Asians) or on the inherent conflict between racial preferences and the legal ideal of colorblindness.
For instance, researchers Stephen Cole and Elinor Barber found that racial preferences at Ivy League colleges had a large and negative effect on the academic aspirations of black students. </p>

<p>The mechanism worked like this: Blacks admitted to elite schools with large preferences had more trouble competing with their classmates, and tended to get lower grades. Low grades, in turn, sapped the confidence of students, persuading them that they would not be able to compete effectively in Ph.D. programs. As a result, blacks at Ivy League schools were only half as likely as blacks at state universities to stick with plans for an academic career. </p>

<p>Dartmouth psychologist Rogers Elliot and three co-authors found that the same problem was keeping blacks out of the sciences. </p>

<p>Black students who received preferential admissions were at such a strong academic disadvantage compared with their classmates that fully half of those interested in the sciences tended to switch to majors with easier grading and less competition. Again, the net effect of preferential policies was to "mismatch" blacks with their academic environments. </p>

<p>My research over the last two years, using recent data that track more than 30,000 law students and lawyers, has documented even more serious and pervasive mismatch effects in legal education. </p>

<p>Elite law schools offer very substantial racial preferences for blacks, Hispanics and American Indians in order to create student bodies that are as racially diverse as their applicant pools. Because these elite schools admit the black students that second-tier law schools would normally admit, second-tier schools, to keep up their minority numbers, also offer big racial preferences. The result is a cascade effect down the law school hierarchy, leaving 80 percent to 90 percent of black students at significantly more selective schools than they would get into strictly on their academic credentials. </p>

<p>Most legal educators have traditionally assumed that this helps blacks by giving them a more elite degree, better connections and maybe even a better education. </p>

<p>But in fact, my data show, about half of black law students end up in the bottom tenth of their classes. Very low grades lead to much higher attrition (blacks are 2 1/2 times more likely to drop out of law school than whites) and to more trouble on the bar exam (blacks are six times as likely as whites taking the bar to never pass). </p>

<p>The other traditional justification for racial preferences by law schools was that they would increase the number of black lawyers. But over the years the pool of black applicants has become much larger and much more qualified. More than 85 percent of blacks admitted to law schools today would still get into some law school if preferences disappeared -- albeit generally a lower-prestige school. </p>

<p>The modest pool-expanding effects of law school preferences may well be more than canceled out now by the greater attrition caused by the mismatch effect. My research suggests that in a race-blind system, the proportion of black law students graduating and passing the bar on their first attempt would rise from 45 percent to at least 65 percent, and the number of new, certified black lawyers each year would rise about 7 percent. </p>

<p>Obviously, it's difficult to predict how applicants would weigh the pluses and minuses of a race-neutral system; the point is that the attrition effects of the current system are so devastating that they threaten all its intended benefits. </p>

<p>All of this doesn't prove, by any means, that affirmative action is harmful in every form. </p>

<p>Some recent research by Princeton sociologist Marta Tienda found, for example, that although minority preferences at elite undergraduate colleges had a harmful effect on grades, these effects were more than offset by the success of those schools in helping students graduate. Improving academic support programs in law schools would certainly help narrow black-white grade gaps up to a point. </p>

<p>And my research suggests that shrinking law school racial preferences by half -- that is, moving the standards for blacks and minorities closer to the standards for whites and Asians -- would reduce by three-quarters the attrition effects I document. </p>

<p>The affirmative action debate has generally been characterized by two camps that resolutely see the other side as hopelessly misguided or even evil. Social scientists entering the fray have tended to become partisan spokespersons for one side or the other. The emergence of careful, credible research on the mismatch effect may lead us to a more measured debate on when preferences produce clear net benefits and about how quickly we can move toward what everyone agrees is the ultimate goal -- colorblind admissions.</p>

<p>Interesting point. I still think, however, that if you have a white applicant with 3.5/165 and a minority applicant with 3.5/165, the minority applicant <em>most likely</em> had to overcome more difficult conditions and experiences to get the same achievement as the white.</p>

<p>Just a word of caution: AA threads generally degrade into flaming wars. In the interests of free speech and fair exchange of ideas, I am willing to keep this thread open. But, if it degrades into personal or racial attacks (and I do not think the contributors in this particular forum will do that), then I will close and/or delet the thread.</p>

<p>So, with that fair warning, please feel free to have a rational and fair-minded discussion.</p>

<p>CD</p>

<p>Stanford Alum has good points.</p>

<p>As an undergrad applicant, I can tell you that simply being a URM isn't a free pass anywhere. I had a 3.85/4 GPA and a 33 ACT (1470-1500 SAT), not to mention special talents for which i have been recognized on the national level: I was rejected from HYP. </p>

<p>That being said, I think the affirmative action debate should center on preparing and nurting black students at all levels. Remember, the quality of one's education in America usually has much to do with thier skin color or socioeconomic class. If we fix public education, especially in poor and minority communities, AA would become moot. The program is a band-aid, which seeks to fix the problems at the tail end of the educational process, rather than the beginning. I believe that the goal of affirmative action is to end affirmative action. If we had universal pre-K and well funded, well staffed public schools everywhere in America, AA would die faster than the Spice Girls. Until that happens, I don't see how AA can be eliminated.</p>

<p>how much of a leg up does affirmative action give anyway??</p>

<p>It differs from place to place...I know from the SCOTUS case that UM's law school "admitted virtually every qualified black applicant". At other places it could be less pronounced.</p>

<p>AA gives a nice leg up ont he Lsat score and a little on the GPA. The thing is that certain urm do not do as well on the Lsats and their average score is much lower than that of whites/asians. GPA however, it somewhat reflective of effort so there arent that many breaks there.</p>

<p>I enjoy researching the issue presented in this thread, and most of it clearly affirms that Affirmative Action does indeed hurt minorities. Your statement is great! Only when we correct the root of the problem will this country reap the benefits of a diverse population. As a minority growing up in an empoverished school district, I soon realized the disparity of education and the great difficulty in competing with fortunate individuals who attended better schools at the elementary, middle, and high school level. Knowledge builds atop of previously acquired knowledge. When the foundations are weak, it is extremely rare and difficult to compete with those with a solid, strong, backbone. Seems like common sense. As for myself, a first-generation American, I would rather be weighed exclusively by my academic achievement. I can only depend on what Nature gave me, since Nurture fell short. Perhaps sufficient awareness prompts citizens to take a different look into our education system. And I will do all that is possible to close that gap between my children, the next generation.</p>

<p>i've always thought affirmative action was a little out of place. with so many minorities not even attending college, and many flunking out, it seems like affirmative action is such a debate because it is a decision everyone can see. it is a perfect opportunity to see how our society judges and handles the problems that a college education cannot entirely solve anyway. our admissions decisions provide a great reflection, but is this the bottleneck? it is a step in the right direction, but i think inequality still resides in public education. in my home high school, 50% of the 9th grade class failed! why mount a sensitive debate on affirmative action when we have such great inequality before it is a real issue to students. maybe we should focus more of our energy on foundations in lower education rather than submitting to the tired merit vs. race question.</p>