<p>^^can you explain what the difference is? Like do they throw you into a “look closer at sports” pile?</p>
<p>I know a few people who have been recruited to play sports in baseball, and basically if the coach wants a player on the team, admissions will bend their admissions policies a significant amount and accept that player. Granted, the person who was recruited by Columbia ended up having stats that were too low, but it was still accepted by JHU, so it’s not as if he didn’t get a huge boost in admissions. If you’re a recruited athlete and your SAT scores are in the 25-75 range, I think that you’re essentially guaranteed a spot.</p>
<p>To sum it up, it’s a lot more than giving the applicant a closer look.</p>
<p>For URM candidates who don’t think URM’s face significantly lower admission standards, here is a test. Add a couple of schools to those you are applying to and leave off any references to race from your application. If you’re right you will probably be admitted to those schools if you were admitted to comparable schools based on applications that made reference to your race. If Affirmative Action is a major factor you will probably be rejected from many schools that are comparable to ones that accepted you using an application that referenced your status as an URM. I’m not arguing here that Affirmative Action is wrong, that is a completely different issue. I am arguing that it matters quite a bit. I have read a lot on this subject and have yet to find any study that suggests that Affirmative Action has little impact on the selection process. Every study that I have seen suggests that its impact is greater, on average, than status as a recruited athlete or status as a legacy. This impact is, of course, relative. No one gets admitted anywhere because they are an URM. But all the evidence is that AA provides an URM with a very material advantage in the admissions process. If you really think this is untrue, I can find the references for you.</p>
<p>collegebound- I know Ivy leagues don’t give scholarships for athletics, so don’t go ASSUMING what I do and do not know. They do look at athletics though (which is where you were wrong), and there are other top schools that do too. I’m not speaking statistically about people blaming affirmative action for URMs getting in, I’m speaking based off what people say to ME and what people say to other URMs. Like I said, in the AA section, you’ll find tons of stories on it. ORMs getting upset at URMs for getting into good schools and blame it on race. I’m not saying ALL ORMs are like that, but it happens a lot. You don’t need stats for everyday life experiences. That’s just how it is sometimes which leads to resentment from ORMs to URMs and vice versa.</p>
<p>People at my school got mad a baseball player b/c Caltech recruited him junior year for a full ride scholarship. They’re utterly p*ssed to say the least. He’s a URM and no, he’s not in honors courses or IB or AP. He isn’t a top student or anything like that. He’s actually going to Caltech. No recs to admissions, no hassle. He’s for sure going. Yet the sal. of our school has worked his butt off in IB and Caltech is his dream school. Granted, he’s rich and white, but he has worked his butt off. I think that in a sense it’s not fair, but then in a sense, it is b/c the other student has worked very hard in baseball but Caltech isn’t really known for its baseball team is it? So he’s going to a school he never really was interested in but now is b/c it’s an amazing school and he gets a free ride (unless injured). I’m happy for him, but at the same time, I understand why students who work hard in academics would be upset.</p>
<p>BeautifulNerd, are you sure that he got recruited to Caltech? Because Caltech is one of those schools that don’t give a flying crap if you are an athlete, and while being a URM probably helps, you need to be just at qualified as everyone else (not as in 2200 SAT but as in 2350 and USAMO qualifications), and only then will being a URM help. I admire Caltech for being a truly academic-based institution, even though I’m personally trying to get recruited as an athlete myself into top schools. :)</p>
<p>Also, is no one here willing to recognize the disadvantages that Asians face not just against URMs, but against Caucasians? That is what disgusts me the most about AA.</p>
<p>^^ Lol I said the same exact thing. I was like Caltech, Caltech? Is there ANOTHER Caltech? He got recruited by THEE Caltech. I heard he’s really good, but I guess Caltech wants to improve their baseball team.
If you can get recruited, go for it esp. if you’re smart AND athletic. It all helps.</p>
<p>I never knew Asians were ORMs until now. I mean at our school they’re minorities (at our school at least) with only like 2%.</p>
<p>collegebound41- How do you know I’m a URM? Theos is a Greek name, and I come from a mixed background. My mom is considered a “URM” but my dad is from Greece directly. I am simply an American and I do not fall under any of these categories or classes. I feel that they ultimately segregate us.</p>
<p>Curious14- What type of test is that? My brother applied to all colleges labeling the “I would rather not declare ethnicity” option and he got admitted to 8 out of the 13 he applied to. To name a few he was accepted at Columbia, University of Florida, Michigan, Duke, Emory, and Vanderbilt. He was accepted to these schools because of his qualifications, and because he fit what they were looking for. Because he didn’t declare ethnicity, they couldn’t see that we are colored and look very Hispanic despite our very mixed multi-ethnic background. There really is no correlation between someone being accepted PRIMARILY due to their ethnicity, and there is a GREAT DEAL of FALLACY in that logic.</p>
<p>As far as athletics come into play, I’m very sure they have a significant role in college admissions. I know if I were an admissions officer I would admit the smart athlete over the purely academic candidate if there weren’t any other substantial distinguishing factors. Wouldn’t you? I find it alot more impressive that a person can handle academics and sports. Test scores aren’t the only factors, and in my opinion, they are overemphasized. For example I scored higher on the SAT in math than I did reading, and reading is one of my strongest subjects.;)</p>
<p>~ Theos</p>
<p>Haha yeah, even MIT and other geeky schools have decent athletics. Caltech’s athletics are simply atrocious.</p>
<p>They are minorities at my school as well, but the vast majority of them are very accomplished. My HS is rather competitive and there are many top Caucasian and Asian applicants. I have noticed, however, that the Caucasian students tend to be accepted by prestigious universities while Asian applicants of the same or sometimes even greater qualifications will be rejected by the same schools. The smartest kid in this year’s graduating class is Asian, and the only top school he was accepted by was Cornell. Of course, Cornell’s still an amazing institution, but there are several, around a dozen, people with lesser qualifications who will be attending HYPSM.</p>
<p>^^^ True. I think there are higher standards placed on Asians. If you’re Asian and bad at math, it’s like taboo almost which is ridiculous. I think if you’re the best student at your school, then that’s what they should look at, and some schools do that. They will compare you in regard to your school and not nationally (correct me if I’m wrong).</p>
<p>@Theos- I KNEW you were Greek. I knew a guy named Theofilos, and we called him Theo. I wanna go to Greece sooo bad.</p>
<p>yes its real</p>
<p>8 people from my school applied to Georgetown (2 of which were valedictorian, and 1 was black)</p>
<p>One of the two valedictorians got in</p>
<p>The black guy (not even in top 15%) got in as well</p>
<p>Beautifulnerd- I want to go to Greece also. I never had the chance, but alot of my family is from Hellas. Theofilos= AWESOME name. :D</p>
<p>This is interesting discussion. So guys. Let’s say someone were Italian, and Black. Should they apply as “Other”, “Multi-racial(if avaliable)”, or “African American”? </p>
<p>Truthfully, multiracial would be the most accurate discription, however, the others wouldn’t be inaccurate either I guess depending on how you perceive things. Hmmm…:P</p>
<p>~ Theos</p>
<p>It depends. Are they Italian from their great great great great grandmother or directly from their parents?</p>
<p>I also think it all depends on what they identify with. Obama is mixed but says identifies himself as a black man. </p>
<p>I always thought Theofilos was a cute name; he hated it lol.</p>
<p>theos i looked at one of ur threads and it said half greek half black. </p>
<p>NErd, you didnt say sports involvement you said people being recruited for sports. Btw, why haven’t you posted your stats? stop snapping at me</p>
<p>collegebound41-
"theos i looked at one of ur threads and it said half greek half black.</p>
<p>NErd, you didnt say sports involvement you said people being recruited for sports. Btw, why haven’t you posted your stats? stop snapping at me "</p>
<p>1-And to what relevance does that have? Sports involvement, and sports recruitment both are important to a college. If the college has a sports team wouldn’t it make sense for them to recruit people who can do well academically, and contribute to the school’s sports? A person doesn’t need perfect stats to have that merit.</p>
<p>2-I’m not “snapping at you”. I’m sorry you feel that way, or that you interpret my comments otherwise. I think you’re just a little annoyed because you believe your right and your not willing to take insight from other opinions. The reason I have’t posted my own “stats” is because that’s not this thread’s topic. We’re talking about how affirmative action may exist, and may even be an “edge” when considering geographic diversity, and how it isn’t a “hook” as many people tend to think.</p>
<p>I think it’s all ridiculous that people make such a big deal when affirmative action really <em>doesn’t</em> exist. All readers, please read the following thread as further proof that it’s over hyped. A person isn’t admitted because of their ethnicity, but their merit and what they bring to the college. Even then, if someone isn’t admitted it’s not that they are “under qualified” but rather there’s an abundance of over qualified applicants. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/164460-affirmative-action-isnt-so-affirmative.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/164460-affirmative-action-isnt-so-affirmative.html</a></p>
<p>^^ Please read that thread. :)</p>
<p>~ Theos</p>
<p>“Even then, if someone isn’t admitted it’s not that they are “under qualified” but rather there’s an abundance of over qualified applicants.”</p>
<p>An abundance of a particular race. Right there. You just confirmed affirmative action even though you claim to deny its existence.</p>
<p>^^ I did not say an abundance of a particular race. Your twisting my words. I said an abundance of over qualified applicants, and truthfully, nowadays there are many over qualified applicants because everyone is so fixated over going to a four year university.</p>
<p>It doesn’t exist. </p>
<p>Edit: Oh wait lol I think I get what you mean haha:P
But still on a serious note, I don’t think it exists.</p>
<p>~ Theos</p>
<p>theos? are you beautiful nerd? or did you just read it wrong?</p>
<p>^^lol yea i think you misunderstood, i was talking to beautiful nerd, unless you are she? lol</p>
<p>Where do you think this abundance of overqualified candidates is coming from? It’s obvious that it’s coming from the upper-middle class of America. What composes the vast majority of that upper-middle class? Asian and Caucasian students. Now ask yourself, how come that prestigious schools which completely ignore affirmative action (Caltech, Berkeley) have such a ridiculous percentage of Asian students (hell, they’re practically the MAJORITY at those colleges)? Look, you can’t deny the existence of affirmative action. I believe that there are former admissions officers on this board who have confirmed the affect of affirmative action. Is it understandable why colleges are doing so? Yes, but it is still in my opinion a convoluted form of racism.</p>
<p>do you realize that AA doesn’t exist at some schools? HArvard obviously doesn’t have AA because they have the largest qualified pool, just cuz its harvard. </p>
<p>State schools dont have it either, its against some state laws(this was mentioned already).</p>
<p>And it does exist, the first page said it does. They just said it doesnt work at Harvard</p>