<p>Boston College was historically the college of choice for the (South Boston) Southie Irish Catholics.</p>
<p>American</a> Experience | Eyes on the Prize | The Story of the Movement | PBS</p>
<p>See Louise Day Hicks, Billy Bulger, et al.</p>
<p>Interesteddad -- This thread was not started with any particular axe to grind except for this one: Let's get the facts on the table regarding minority enrollment at the nation's liberal arts colleges and universities.</p>
<p>I have started with the LACs. I'll get to the universities eventually.</p>
<p>As for interpreting the facts, I'll just say this: The level of minority enrollment by itself does NOT say much of anything about the relative commitment to diversity of a given college. The level of minority enrollment by itself furthermore says nothing about the relative tolerance of majority members of the student body towards their minority classmates.</p>
<p>I hope this is clear, but I'm sure someone will try to read too much into it.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, Interesting info about BC. I'm still surprised if its reputation from decades ago is keeping away black students since many of the students applying now know next to nothing about the civil rights movement. I'm sure Bostonians know about what kind of people BC used to attract, but it would surprise me if people outside of the area know that.</p>
<p>A reputation for being inhospitable to blacks is difficult to turn around. I don't know what efforts Boston College has made to turn it around. Lehigh, not an LAC, has made a sincere effort to turn around a similar reputation. They've met with much greater success than BC, but all things are relative, and compared to other colleges/universities they continue to struggle. Some unfortunate headlines over the last two years have not helped. If BC has 1 percent black, either they are not trying or their reputation with blacks is in the toilet.</p>
<p>Vossrun: It's still bogus. Substituting blacks from other countries does not help alleviate historic discrimination against disadvantaged African Americans. All it does is pad the numbers, giving the allusion the black community in America is being helped. It isn't. </p>
<p>Imagine being a college/university in a southwestern state with significant Mexican American population and substituting Latinos from Venezuela or Argentina so you can claim you're helping the "Latino/Hispanic" community? That would be hogwash. Well, that is what too many schools are doing when it comes to black students. Foreign blacks should be counted as "internationals" (just like foreign whites are considered "internationals") not as black or African American, since the two terms mean the same thing in American vernacular.</p>
<p>The federal government defines how to count students in a federal regulation linked to from the main FAQ page: </p>
<p>I'm still surprised about BC. I went to college in Boston during the Louise Day Hicks era, and don't remember hearing anything negative about BC. I even had a white friend who went there, so I had visited it.</p>
<p>If younger S's grades had been higher, I would have considered it a good match for him.</p>
<p>I also have friends -- very nice friends including one who is Hispanic -- who are on faculty there, and say nice things about it.</p>
<p>Considering the fact that many southern schools didn't even admit black students until 1964, yet now are paradigms of diversity, I still am surprised that BC isn't more diverse.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Plainsman
"My only issue with the LACs and black enrollment is how some of them pad their "impressive" numbers with blacks from other countries, mostly African and Caribbean countries."</p>
<p>vorosson's response</p>
<p>Since U.S. blacks don't apply and can't be recruited in sufficient numbers, what is your preference? More U.S. non-blacks in place of the foreign blacks? Would the foreign blacks appreciate being counted as non-blacks to satisfy bean counters? BTW, "African-American" is not a Common Data Set category; it's "Black, non-Hispanic."</p>
<p>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The fact still remains that this is a very real and true situation even the topic of much discussion in the Harvard rticle Roots and Race. I know my D, who pretty much knew every black person in her graduating class (70 students, it was hard not to) she was also able to name every single black student in her class at Dartmouth who was not wasn't a first generation black student from the Carribean or Africa.</p>
<p>The overwhelming majority of black students at elite schools are either recent immigrants or the children of recent immigrants of the Carribean or Africa and yes, there are very few African-American students with multi-generational roots in the U.S. This has become an issue because African Americans with multi-generational roots in the U.S. and who come from a history of discrimination in *this country<a href="not%20to%20say%20that%20blacks%20from%20the%20carribean%20and%20Africa%20are%20nto%20being%20discriminated%20against">/i</a>. On the surface, it does seem like one can freely subsititute on black person for another and you have achieved diversity.</p>
<p>I think one of the ways that schools are looking to get a fuller picture is that over the past few years there have been changes in the common app where it now does ask where were you (the student) was born and where were your parents born and they are doing more out reach in places where there tend to be more blacks with multi-generational roots in the U.S.</p>
<p>I agree with interesteddad that there is a lot of outreach as trying to attact high achieving african americans. The issue is also on the other side of the coin; gc are not aware that programs exists, a lot of parents are not aware of many of the LACs because they are unknown.</p>
<p>Yes, the hair issue is a very real thing. When my D was accepted to Williams and Amherst, that was a question that she raised at the time. Unless you know a student who does hair, many young women wore braids until they got home. At Amherst, some students took road trips to Boston. I know even in Hanover, my D who has permed hair would go to the salon with in her first 2 days of returing home for a touch-up and a trim.</p>
<p>My D had 4 wonderful years in Hanover and was very happy that there is in deed a strong black community there. The Alphas have the Pharoahs ball every spring, there are step shows during green key, she had friends in the gospel choir and, had a big sib through the as a freshman and became a big sib to a couple of freshmen and the BADA (black alumni at Dartmouth does reach out to the young alumni and students)</p>
<p>, but I do think there were some things she wished that she would have had; there were no Deltas or AKA on campus as the last group graduated right before she entered and the prospect of pledging one of these sororities was a tipping point in Dartmouth's favor (the AKAs was just started back class spring 2008, but she was now leaving).</p>
<p>I got the 1% number off of a website but I went to check due to the number being out of line with other LACs. The College Board says 5% Af-Am/non-Hispanic. I called BC and they said 6% Af-Am. So my apologies to the board for posting incorrect information.</p>
<p>Full figures for BC: </p>
<p>College</a> Search - Boston College - BC - At a Glance </p>
<p>This look-up works for pretty much any college in the country. SCROLL DOWN a little on the main page for each college to see the ethnicity figures. This is all based on official reporting to the federal government.</p>
<p>MODERATOR'S NOTE: </p>
<p>Various posts in this thread raising broader issues than the original thread-opening post of this thread here on the Parents Forum have now been merged into the FAQ & Discussion Thread 2 </p>
<p>over on the College Admissions Forum. </p>
<p>Some of the discussion here was about definitions of terms, and all those terms are defined over there.</p>
<p>When I was applying to colleges, I strictly focused on the universities near large cities with significant black populations because the Hair isssue was very important to me. Not all black hair salons are the same. I didn't even have a perm (still don't, hair all natural) so I needed constant care.</p>
<p>D attends an LAC that's near the bottom of the list regarding % of Black students. I think there are only about 18 in her class. And like many others, her LAC is also located in a remote area. However, as I've stated on these boards many times, she's having the time of her life. Her transition was amazingly seamless. Loves just about everything at her school - the academics, her friends, clubs, etc. If she has ever had even a moment of regret or a second thought she's hidden it exceedingly well. And no, there is no crisis of identity that makes her different from other Black students. The difference is she went into it with her eyes open, unafraid, and knowing what she wanted to do. </p>
<p>In contrast, during Parent's Weekend I attended a multi-cultural reception/program in which several seniors gave reflections on thier time at the school. Many sounded as though they had a very tough time culturally and socially. Although I attributed many of their comments to a certain lack of life experience -- making fairly benign circumstances out to be major issues -- the fact remains that those future graduates were not likely to be good ambassadors to other prospective students. I have seen such patterns at LACs over and over, and it does hurt recruiting efforts. It's not enough to get Black students into these schools, but they must also leave with positive experiences. And frankly, much of that has to do with interactions having little to do with the administration. Thus, I'm not sure what schools can do corporately do to counteract such conditions. It's as though these students get sold on the school without fully understanding the nature of the environment they're entering. Obviously, disappointment is likely to ensue when that happens. </p>
<p>D has been resourceful about her personal haircare needs. Instead of the going along on the long treks to the nearest cities as others have resigned to do, she has forged a very special relationship with a white stylist at a local shop. Her new stylist, now counted among friends, took it as a special honor to be approached, and has taken the job very seriously. She's not an expert, but has taken the time to listen and learn how to do all of the basics and maintenance requirements --and she keeps supplies. She is so proud of what she's learned that she hardly charges anything -- she says the excitement she gets from doing it along with looks on the faces of her co-workers is priceless. Most importantly, D always looks good. She's also having a little fun at some of her friend's expense since they are openly wondering what her secret is. She says she'll probably tell them about her stylist soon for the sake of their convenience and to throw some added business to her friend. As D puts it, "Sometimes it's amazing what people are willing to do when you give them a chance."</p>
<p>But you see, this was D's attitude BEFORE she stepped onto campus. Being the only Black student in a variety of settings on campus or in town is no revelation to her. The fact that she encounters some people with little prior interaction with Blacks was partly expected, and she does not internalize such instances as being negative. She knew she'd have to be ready to make some adjustments ahead of time, and the prospect of doing so was not enough to dissuade her from the great education and opportunities her school offers to those who want to take advantage of them. I think it's important for most Black students to have a similar mindset if they want to not only attend, but also enjoy their experiences at LACs. Unfortunately, this is something probably easier said than done.</p>
<p>
[quote]
She's also having a little fun at some of her friend's expense since they are openly wondering what her secret is.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That kind of good-humored approach to life, and the resourcefulness she showed to get the good results that caught her friends' attention, will take her far. Yep, a student with a high degree of adaptability can thrive at any college, so that any college that student prefers would be glad to have her.</p>
<p>Plainsman wrote: "My only issue with the LACs and black enrollment is how some of them pad their "impressive" numbers with blacks from other countries, mostly African and Caribbean countries."</p>
<p>I will take your word that some colleges do that. I would only note that the figures for the colleges that I cited came from the Common Data Sets. The CDS clearly distinguishes between resident black students and foreign nationals. In the one case where a college included international students with the US students by race I didn't include that college in my list. Until proven otherwise, I think the CDS's are the best source available on racial/ethnic makeup of the student population at those colleges that participate in the CDS Initiative.</p>
<p>*But you see, this was D's attitude BEFORE she stepped onto campus. Being the only Black student in a variety of settings on campus or in town is no revelation to her. The fact that she encounters some people with little prior interaction with Blacks was partly expected, and she does not internalize such instances as being negative. *</p>
<p>Flavdad, your daughter sound impressively mature and thoughtful- obviously a glass full sort of person.
Ive tried to be that way- I have found more options if you keep open to learning- but that is very scary to some people.
You must be doing a great job-she sounds well prepared for life.</p>
<p>( I used to do textured hair myself- when I was in beauty school in Bellevue- that was in the late 70's however- so it was mostly " natural" hair styles- I fell into it just because I took my time I think & didn't rush- however,even though, I would have loved to do my daughters friends hair, and tried to encourage them to do things instead of straightening, when they wanted a different look- just cause I was " the mom" my D gave me the evil eye when I would mention I would do it for free!)</p>
<p>Most importantly, D always looks good</p>
<p>I suspect with that warm attitude, your daughter is beautiful, regardless of her actual features. :)</p>
<p>FLVADAD, delighted that it worked out for your D. And having no illusions about the campus was certainly a benefit; same for her optimistic outlook. My Ds have attended predom White schools and camps where they were the only black campers - - and like your D, each of mine had a blast. But I don't take their experience to mean that a critical mass of black students is unimportant.</p>
<p>FLVDAD, can you share any thoughts about your D's view of the dating scene? My D is much more used to being the only Black person among her friends, than she is used to being among other Blacks. We went to great lengths ( and expense!) to get a threshold of various high-achieving minorities, and I can't really be sure the diversity has made any difference to her at this point ( 3 months; the high achieving part DEFINATELY has...) . She rejoined localed friends last night and has quipped about transferring for a better dating scene. One of her many White friends was talking at great length about her many suitors at a nearby university (with a 3 percent Black population , one where my D turned down a MAJOR merit scholarship last year!). I was not sure how to respond, and I didn't.</p>
<p>I remember when my son had a rep come from BC when he was in high school. He in a roundaboutway said the minority status was low, why they wouldn't come or apply, he didn't know. While he was talking to the students, I was looking through the very thick BC viewbook they gave the group. I noticed that there were only 2 minorites in this viewbook and I checked a few times. One was a librarian and one was a shot of a baskeball player making a basket. I never said a word to my son, but he told me later, he heard if you weren't an athlete, some minorites didn't feel welcome.
I'm sure there are many that are, but some schools certainly don't seem to be able to shake the stereotypes through the years, for many reasons.</p>
<p>Shrink, the dating issue was one reason I made sure to look for a school w/ minimal self-segregation - - one with visible evid of cross-raccial socializing beyond sports teams (D has dated both in- and out-of-race).</p>
<p>My theory?</p>
<p>It's the dating scene problem. Kids may assume (correctly or not) that dating opportunities will be reduced at a small LAC. If you are looking at a LAC that has, say, 3% black enrollment and an entering class of 500, that's 15 blacks in your class. Say you are a girl, so maybe there are 7 black guys if you are lucky. Assuming none are gay (a huge assumption) and none are married or attached, you have your work cut out for you. If you are in an isolated rural, white area and therefore cannot count on meeting anyone of your own race from the local community, well . . . </p>
<p>Oh, sure. People date outside their race all the time. I would think many black kids (and perhaps other minorities as well) would at least like the option of dating in their own race.</p>