<p>As an AA with both a son and daughter I agree with Northstarmom’s comments. I see a lot of kids that struggle with standardized tests from my church who go to Chicago schools. These kids are motivated but struggle I am sure they will struggle in college without the right support. On the other hand, I know several Africans and are impressed with their drive and ambition. They seem to be better able to handle college.</p>
<p>For my teens, I view it as my job to help steer them through high school and college. I share with them my experiences as a first generation college student so that they can avoid my mistakes.</p>
<p>What proportion of African-Americans go to college - the top third or so? What proportion of Africans get to travel halfway around the world to go to college in the U.S. - the top tenth of one percent perhaps? If you compare the 67th-percentile of any population to the 99.9th-percentile of another, you’ll inevitably get differences.</p>
<p>I can somewhat understand the northern Africans and Egyptians seriously asking. The other guys were just being dolts. I can see why I spend little time on “admissions” where most of those appeared.</p>
<p>Immigrants from Africa had real education before college or their parents had a real education. American K-12 is lacking so much in comparison to other countries, including Africa, that if parents are not greatly involved then results are not very promissing. i knew some immigrants from Africa, who wanted to send their kids back home for schooling. Very sad!</p>
But I think here we are actually comparing African Americans descended since slave times to recent immigrants. My neighbors are from Nigeria. They have sent their 2 oldest sons to Cornell and MIT, and one of those is now in med school. Both mom and dad have phd’s. Obviously, being of African descent is not the barrier now. The barriers are within and within the culture/society.</p>
<p>*We have friends whose kids consider themselves “hispanic” but whose parents are from Spain of French descent. Not sure that’s true to the spirit of the designation, but Spanish was their first language! *</p>
<p>Hey, there are Germans who moved to South America after WWII and their descendents who have moved to the US are calling themselves Latino/Hispanic, even though they are 100% German descent. </p>
<p>I don’t think that those who are really of European descent should be classifying themselves as some kind of URM.</p>
That just brings up the whole question of who, exactly, is a URM, and why bother with these artificial designations anyways. Sooner or later, where your ancestors came from, or how they came, won’t matter.</p>
<p>“I don’t think that those who are really of European descent should be classifying themselves as some kind of URM.” </p>
<p>Why not? Race is a social construct and is therefore subject to interpretation. If colleges don’t want applicants using this fact to their advantage then they shouldn’t take race into account. </p>
<p>“If the purpose is to correct past American injustices AND to help these particular kids rise out of poverty/inner cities…”</p>
<p>AA can only be used to create racial diversity. There was a SCOTUS case that ruled that AA could not be used to attempt to right past injustices.</p>
<p>You should re-read those cases, particularly Justice Sandra Day O’Connor’s opinion in the redistricting case. Also, I don’t believe that the U of Michigan cases completely support what you said.</p>
<p>*AA can only be used to create racial diversity. There was a SCOTUS case that ruled that AA could not be used to attempt to right past injustices. *</p>
<p>I don’t think that applies to the privates which are the ones who do the most diversity stuff.</p>
<p>*That just brings up the whole question of who, exactly, is a URM, and why bother with these artificial designations anyways. Sooner or later, where your ancestors came from, or how they came, won’t matter. *</p>
<p>Very true. I have nephews who are 1/4 Hispanic, yet they (and their 1/2 Hispanic mom) have never lived below an upper-middle class lifestyle and have never lived with any kind of Hispanic culture. These kids do not speak any Spanish (neither does their mom), they do not have a Hispanic last name (neither did their mom), yet, they identified as URMs to help with college admissions. It really was ridiculous. There should be an economic factor included with URM status.</p>
<p>This question of African kids being treated as URM is a difficult one. I do wonder, though, whether it might still pay from a social engineering point of view, as long as a large percentage of them stay in the U.S. after college.</p>
<p>As a whole population, African-American college students are fairly typical African-Americans - perhaps somewhat above average in skills, ambition, and sophistication compared to the entire population of African-Americans, but not dramatically so. Are your Nigerian neighbors just typical Nigerians? I would guess that they are the extreme elite of their nation and society - merely “above average” Nigerians don’t get to come to the U.S. for college. To have a fair comparison here, we’d need to ask how African-American college students compare in educational attainment to slightly above average Africans, which is difficult because the latter group isn’t in our colleges.</p>
<p>In this area, I see both African immigrants and Americans who originally came from Africa. The ones in the library are always African immigrants. Others at my library include lots of Asians- mostly Koreans, and some Caucasians. But the two groups who are missing from the library almost altogether are AA and Latin American immigrants. They are also the kids who have the lowest amount of kids going on to 4 year colleges. It all has to do with motivation.</p>
<p>I imagine that there are Nigerians of modest means whom have made their way to the U.S., but of the Nigerians I’ve known or befriended, almost to a person they are the offspring of the elite; children of diplomats or parents connected somehow to oil weath or other prosperity. Comparing top performers from an immigrant community to average kids in the U.S. probably isn’t a valid proposition.</p>
<p>In the amicus brief submitted by Harvard University, Brown University, the University of
Chicago, Dartmouth College, Duke University, the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, and Yale University in support of the university of Michigan, they state:</p>
<p>This thread is ridiculous. I’m a High School Junior and a Nigerian Immigrant. None of my parents have Phds or are wealthy in any respect. But yet I am in America and am succeeding academically. I don’t think the problem is in where i’m from, its that a lot of AA were raised in a culture that provides them with very little motivation to suceed, meanwhile Nigerian Schools are very competitive and testing orientated.</p>
The parents (50-ish) came to America in the 80’s. All of their children were born here, and could certainly call themselves African-American if they choose. I don’t know what the parents circumstances were back in Nigeria, or what motivated them to emigrate to the US. My point was that their status as AA has not been a barrier to getting their kids uber-educations, and the kids have done extraordinarily well by any standards. </p>
<p>
I don’t think “motivation” is the right term. There are huge cultural differences which influence how people come to think about these things.</p>
<p>‘They certainlly could call themselves African American if they choose.’</p>
<p>Based on what standard? Isn’t that question key in this recurring discussion on CC? Many people say that the definition is not based on geography, hence the argument about caucasian immigrants whom trace their ancestry to North Africa or to Zimbabwe or the nation of South Africa. Is the definition based soley on what we typically call “race?” If that’s the case, then any American whose ancestors immigrated from Caribbean nations or the continent of African would be included. I know plenty of black Caribbeans and black Africans who don’t agree with that. In the U.S. the term ‘African American’ is not a simple construct like Italian American or Canadian American or Irish American.</p>