<p>“I think that input on this thread from the current Harvard students is the most valuable.”</p>
<p>I appreciate your comment, Smoda61. I sort of got chewed out by a parent for saying that …but parents may not really know EVERYTHING that’s going on, especially when what’s going on may not meet with their approval…</p>
<p>^ I never understood why [some] parents and the media in the States make such a big deal about this alcohol issue anyway.</p>
<p>I actually forgot about that whole encounter on the first page. I appreciate your thanks but my comment was not intended to take away from any of the contributions of the parents in the Harvard Forum. On this thread, we have been fortunate enough to gotten perspectives from committed CCers including parents Gadad ( 2 children, member since 2004) and DocT (1 child, member since 2005) but also from Upper class students White Rabbit (2006), Synth (2009), Boyhood (2007), and Just Forget Me (2004). Though I do understand your position that only input from students and not parents input is accurate, my post above was actually directed at secondhand hearsay from visitors of Harvard. I have to admit that if my daughter were an undergrad on campus and had I made Gadad’s post, I would have been bothered if value of the information that I shared had been questioned. When wondering about the accuracy of parental information, you need to know the source and the relationship between the parent and child. I have already had a number of “uncomfortable” discussions with my daughter. Both ones that I have initiated and ones where she brought up the topic. I am hoping that honesty will keep her safer. She fortunately has had the opportunity of watching my husband and I have that same honest relationship with her older brother during his college years. As I move forward, I will be confident in the veracity of anything that I share on CC. Right now, I am still counting on learning from parents and students who are aware of life as a Harvard undergrad. My last comment is that in general a member’s CC history can help you assess their information. As you spend time as a member, you will learn those names. :)</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I see your point. Thanks…and I really had appreciated Gadad’s input and was sorry it hadn’t come across that way!</p>
<p>@ Felixbloch - It is not the “parents and the media”. It happens to be US law. If you feel that unrestricted clubbing is your highest priority in college, then attend college in a country where that is not be a concern for you.</p>
<p>anb - no problem, there is great info here on CC</p>
<p>I wanted to share one other thing. From Harvard’s letter to parents regarding students and alcohol, the 2008 National College Health Assessment reports:</p>
<p>96% of Harvard students who choose to drink eat before and/or during drinking
59% of Harvard students who choose to drink set a drink limit before going out
73% of Harvard students had 0-4 drinks the last time they partied
88% of Harvard students who choose to drink keep track of how may drinks they have when partying
67% of Harvard students who choose to drink alternate non-alcoholic with alcoholic beverages</p>
<p>It would be great to get input from insiders as to whether the above statements are an accurate reflection of Harvard.</p>
<p>Are you asking for verification for those statistics over the entire Harvard population or just our personal response? Either way, I also take those studies with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>@smoda61.
<p>After reading this post, you will likely think "Hm, I just spoke about priorities, not about my opinion on alcohol. However, I still feel the urge to explain why alcohol and clubbing play the part they play in my life. If you are not interested, so be it, you were the one who went personal.</p>
<p>First of all, how do you know my priorities? Lets leave that to the end. </p>
<p>In the six months before my external exams I didn’t touch alcohol once, let alone went clubbing. Now, I am sure your first reactions are “So, what…he can controll himself”. I am sorry, but you are wrong. If this assumption is correct, no worry, its not your fault. </p>
<p>I did not go out, because I thought “I have to study, I cannot go clubbing”. I acted in this way, because I do not see in alcohol *something which provokes certain reactions in your body". I drink alcohol for taste, I enjoy it. I was brought up with the mentality that alcohol is an addendum not a need. An analogy is perhaps appropriate. You add salt to your food, because it enhances your taste. My friends and I, when we got out for dinner, order Chardonnay for fish, because it adds to the enjoyment, to the taste. We do not drink to much, just as you do not add to much salt; it spoils the taste. </p>
<p>Your reaction just shows how tense you react to this entire issue. All you see in alcohol (Remeber…I assume) is <em>something</em> harmful to your senses. It my point of view this is ignorance. This entire discussion is not too much different from Embryo Ethics; is shows the flaws in the thinking of our! modern society. People, especially young ones, tend to misuse it. They do not see see the positive aspects of it (Remember…the taste). Here the parents’ role enters, this is not about law. If children would be brought up and educated about desert wines, digestives, ap</p>
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<p>If you want to spend a lot of money on a bill…a lot of money.</p>
<p>^ Dwight, only if you do not have Blue Cross coverage?</p>
<p>^ajrover, did your friend stay with athletes? Otherwise it would
be hard to imagine what you are saying, I must be on a different
campus 
The parties I go to are more into nerd-science-jokes
and unwinding intellectually</p>
<p>I visited in April actually, not during Spring Break! I’m not trying to put down Harvard I just want to warn people who are naive, like I was, about their expectations of a college. And no, my friend did not stay with athletes, he stayed with a student majoring in political science.</p>
<p>@White Rabbit – Thanks. I was actually just curious about any current student’s opinion on that data. </p>
<p>@FelixBloch – I took the time to go back through the thread and your statements. I actually have no problem with anything you said until you made the statement
So in actuality, you made it personal first when you complained about parents and I felt the need to respond. Unfortunately, the later part of my response more had to do with my having gotten tired of the years of repeated complaints that I have had to listen to from young people from other countries about our drinking laws. I am not saying that I approve of the US drinking laws but they are our laws and foreign students are always complaining about how backward our country is, etc etc when they cannot drink like at home. Years ago, the company I worked for at the time, had a contract in Saudi Arabia. My co-workers, who were assigned to go, were made very aware of the laws of SA, and should they break them the consequences were quite severe. No one complained about SA their laws or how the people of that country chose to follow or not follow the laws. If a US parent did take a stand against underage drinking, why is that so wrong to you? As for foreign students complaining about our laws, they should have been aware of them before they came, hopefully made an educated decision to come and ultimately found the experience to be worth any limitation they experienced while here.
Now as for me, you have no clue what my position on alcohol happens to be. What I get tense about is attacks on parents. As for alcohol, I happened to be married to an Italian and growing up wine was always a normal part of his daily life (marsala wine beaten with a raw egg for breakfast in elementary school). The attitude is actually very healthy (except for that marsala/egg thing) in my opinion. It is much better than the position that alcohol is a forbidden fruit that can only be consumed in hiding. Both my children have had wine, beer, etc since a young age. I remember my in-laws giving my now 22 year old son red wine mixed with ginger ale when he was two. As for national law, I am fortunate that Massachusetts law allows parents (or a legal-age spouse) to provide alcohol to their own minor children (not their friends though) so I have never had to question my decisions. Lastly, we recently did a trip to Italy, my daughter had wine with her meals and cocktails in the bar without a thought.</p>
<p>What do I expect about my daughter’s college experience? She has been honest with me and told me that I cannot expect her to never have a drink. In return, I have only asked her to be intelligent in her decisions.</p>
<p>Did I share enough?</p>
<p>Ciao</p>
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<p>I was under the impression Blue Cross coverage doesn’t extend to remedying the effects of alcohol consumption. I might be wrong though, since my information’s only second-hand.</p>
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<p>Everyone gets drunk after a certain number of drinks. It’s science. Also, alcohol is a poison, and accordingly tastes bad to signal the presence of poison. Claiming to drink alcohol purely for the taste is ridiculous, and simply identifies you as yet another euro-snob.</p>
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<p>I call BS.</p>
<p>Choklit, it is not the number of drinks, it is the time in which they are consumed. The body can metabolize, on average, 2 oz. of hard liquor, one beer, or one glass of wine in an hour. If someone drinks at that rate, they will not get drunk at all. If they drink a little more, they might get a little mellow. It is not necessary to get drunk and sick.</p>
<p>@somda61 I am glad I have realized our positions and mentality are not that different at all. With “some parents” (thats why the <em>some</em>) I was referring to the previous posts (and some from another thread called “Drinking at Harvard” I think) such as “Alcohol at Harvard sounds terrible”, “My son doesn’t drink alcohol” or “I am not fond of alcohol myself”. I was certainly neither attacking the law and definitely not the parents (If it came across I apologize that was not my intention). I simply sought to reveal my position a bit more thouroughly and ask “Why do you find alcohol horrible?”</p>
<p>Now perhaps it is questionalbe, why <em>I</em> sometimes feel offended. Perhaps you take a look two posts further down from ChoklitRain. When I visited Columbia, by the time we entered our dorms a high school student from Philadelphia was already hidding the beer behind his luggage (having smuggled it under his tshirt). He was a cool guy, congenial and smart. He asked us (we where a group of four students from our school) whether we would like to drink with them (by that time they had bought several bottles of vodka). We denied, claiming first we do not drink to get drunk and second we not only want but need to respect your laws as we are guests on a temporary visa. Similar reactions such as Choklit’s came across. </p>
<p>I would love to come to the U.S. for my studies, partly because I love American people. That does not mean I muss approve with everything that is society’s consensus (It would be interesting to know whether the majority of U.S. citizens is in favour of the 21 law). However, personally of all the people I know, including me, if your laws say “No alcohol under 21” so be it. We won’t touch it, its your country after all and we respect that since the rewards are greater. I will hence make “an educated decision to come and ultimately find the experience to be worth any limitation they experienced while here.”</p>
<p>Finally, you are not that different from my parents. You simply expect us to learn from what we have learned from you at home. Your positive experiences with your daughter show that the approach is perhaps not that wrong at all. Thanks for the debate, its quite enlightening.</p>
<p>@Choklitrain - Name calling is unnecessary. Your point about alcohol and it’s negative impact on the body is interesting. At the same time though, how do you then address the medical community’s reports of the positive effects that moderate alcohol consumption can have on the body. Right now, as I type this, I am listening to talk radio and the evils of sugar. I also remember over the years, butter was dangerous so eat margarine, a few years later margarine was panned for the dangers of hydrogenated fat. Now talk radio, just briefly switched to the dangers of sun, getting burnt, and causing cancer. Yet, we need sun for our vitamin D. </p>
<p>@Felix - The discussion was good. As for the reference to “some” parents, look at the “^”. I was the only parent represented in the posts preceding yours. As for the “21” law, I do not know what the solution is. Without proper guidance being available, I am not sure that a lower drinking age is the solution either. Good luck on your quest for the right school.</p>
<p>felixbloch:<br>
You should perhaps try to avoid broad assumptions and sweeping generalizations when talking about something (American attitudes toward alcohol) that you actually know practically nothing about. American society is far from monolithic – as I’m sure you know – and the variety and nuances of people’s attitudes toward alcohol reflects all sorts of differences: class, region, ethnicity, religion, education, and, yes, bona fide individual differences among people who are otherwise very similar. What’s more, there is often a largish gap between what people say and what they do, and peoples’ attitudes change over time. The laws on the books and the enforcement of those laws also vary from place to place and time to time.</p>
<p>So . . . wait until you have some sense of the moral geography before you start pontificating.</p>