All the college transfer posts out there

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
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I’m noticing a lot of college transfer posts (I do realize that statistically it’s not a significant # but seems like a lot because of the self selecting cc group) and it’s got me wondering a lot about fit in college. We talked about fit for BS an awful lot and while I get the concept when talking about very different schools I’ve always wondered how kids get an actual read on a school given most limited exposure. We did a ton of work to get to know the BSs my kids applied to and I really don’t think we had any clue. It’s way harder to get to know a college imo. How on earth are kids figuring out actual college culture and fit?

I’m not taking about academic stress so let’s take that out of it. That’s a much easier thing to determine right? Small fish big pond vs big fish small pond. I’m taking about yale vs Princeton. Or Williams vs Hamilton. How are kids supposed to actually know where they fit?

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IME you figure out the type of the school you want, then visit and see what you like most. If you don’t ‘fall in love’ with one of them, you do more research after, talk to kids attending or alumni, talk to GC about your chances among your top 3 or whatever and then pick your ED school and maybe EA as well and hope for the best. Have the rest of the list for RD applications. If you do end up in the RD round and find yourself with a bunch of choices, you go back for overnight visits and then pick. Compare financial packages too if applicable.

Now for transfers, fair number of CC kids are hellbent on transfer before they even start college, just because they did not land at prestigious enough place or their ‘dream’ school. For regular kids, social reasons and hard time adjusting to living away seems to be more common reason than lack of academic fit. There is a FB group called ‘Grown& Flown’ that focuses on all of this (for parents). I had to mute it because it becomes a rabbit hole quickly but at first it is quite eye opening and certainly provides a lot of pointers as to what to do and not to do when sending your child to college.

3

There are several college guidebooks which try to present the dominant culture at many schools. Fiske Guide To Colleges is an example of such a guide.

With respect to OP’s examples of Yale versus Princeton and of Hamilton versus Williams College, there are well publicized differences which may affect fit for a particular student. Broadly speaking, for example, Yale leans liberal while Princeton leans in the other direction, and Williams College may be more athletic than Hamilton.

Dissaction at one’s current school leading to thoughts of transferring often, assuming academic compatability, is more of a function of a particular student’s stage of life and development than it is of a particular school’s characteristics.

Nevertheless, in my opinion, fit is more important at smaller schools like LACs than it is at large universities where one can almost always find his or her niche. Smaller schools tend to have a strong, dominant personality which is hard to overlook if it makes one feel uncomfortable.

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We visited 15 colleges with our D. The first road trip was a taste of everything - big, small, rural, city, private, public. After that road trip D created the second road trip list based on what she liked/didn’t like. We also did a bunch of day trips from home.

We tried to structure visits the same way at all schools - general tours in the morning, lunch in the dining hall, major specific tour in the afternoon and then meeting with a professor. If she couldn’t meet with a prof, she went to the undergraduate office for her intended major and got whatever information that they had available. (At one school, the admin gave her an impromptu hour long tour of the chem e building and labs and had a ton of insight into scheduling, supports for women in engineering, make up of professors, etc…). For my D’s top two choices, we re-visited so she could sit in on classes, and she did a summer program at her top choice run by the honors engineering professors and admins. She did additional visits with her safety school as well.

What we found was that schools that are similar on paper, really can be very different. D also learned to do a deeper dive on course curriculum, gen ed requirements, accepted AP/DE credits, how co-ops are run, etc…

In the end, I had a kid who decided she wanted a hands on program, with a first year engineering design component, an emphasis on career readiness, with fantastic lab facilities, and a school that would give her the flexibility of using as many AP/DE courses as possible, with a laid back, collaborative student vibe. That’s what mattered to her the most, and I think that all 8 schools that stayed on her list met those requirements. Obviously that also excluded many amazing schools as well.

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It’s a lengthy process and kids by and large end up being happy, if they put enough work into finding schools that fit. I would say that my D and I started researching more thoroughly in the summer after sophomore year. By the time acceptances came in, she had a very good idea of which schools she would be happiest to attend. She’s at one of them now, graduating in May.

I assume your child is at boarding school, so might have a better shot at some very selective schools, but remember that there is no guarantee of anything these days. You’d be remiss to not investigate schools with more realistic acceptance rates too. I agree that Fiske is an invaluable resource. I used it for both my kids, who are both at the best place for them.

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I think this is true to an extent. However, in order to find your niche in a bigger school you need to be flexible and willing to explore multiple things. At a lot of bigger universities just about everything is competitive to get into, so you need to evaluate whether you can still be happy at the school if you don’t get into the economics club, get cast in a show, play on the club hockey team, get a sorority/fraternity bid etc. Most kids get some no’s and just move on to the next thing, but for some this is devastating if they had their heart set on a particular activity. So it is very important to do your homework.

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@417WHB: Great post ! My interpretation is that large universities reflect the real world with respect to competition and the need for one to be flexible.

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Just a side note about the competition for activities at a large university. While that might be true for getting into “varsity” level stuff, most big schools have a variety of clubs for all levels. For example, my D is in a theater group for non majors. They don’t do the main stage shows but smaller, more intimate productions. Very open and welcoming group. While a student may still not get cast in every show, there are lots of ways to help backstage and front of house, plus the club does weekly meet ups outside of rehearsals. The university also have multiple improv groups, a comedy group, etc… Whereas at a small school, there may just be one theater group that everyone is trying to compete.

Another thing to look into while visiting!

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BS students (and other HS students) could benefit from the literature they’ve studied. Irrespective of where they attended in their novels, Tom Buchanan might land at Penn today, Amory Blaine would find Kenyon, Esther Greenwood might approach what she needed at Vassar or Yale, and Buck would seek Williams or Hamilton. Alternatively, consider nonfiction such as Small is Beautiful. If this title sounds appealing, then a purely undergraduate-focused LAC or Princeton might be appropriate. For an overarching philosophy, to thine own self be true.

(References: Fitzgerald, Plath, London, Schumacher, Polonius.)

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@merc81 Your post is far too taxing for this time of day. Really, you should have waited for Elevenses.

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@one1ofeach , the CCs at our school were always happy to connect students with alums at schools they were considering if they didn’t know anyone there. The alum often would host them an overnight visit (as few colleges offer these for non-recruited students. ) Most colleges do decent revisit days as well. And unlike BS, it’s easy to attend sporting events, hang in a coffee shop on campus, etc. While it all sort of blurred into a picture of happy youth to me, my kid seemed far more attuned to the nuances of the vibe.

The kids I know who have transferred have had different stories, some possibly foreseeable, some not.

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Also- you need to know your kid.

Some kids thrive anywhere. They make friends easily- even random kids from the neighborhood that they don’t have much in common with often show up to play ball or hang out. They don’t have too many dislikes in their lives. They ask for help readily- and seem eager to listen to advice. If they don’t get their first choice of whatever- entree at the restaurant is sold out, the EC they wanted to try out for conflicts with another activity, they don’t get cast in the musical but end up hauling furniture on and off the stage- and they’re still pretty happy with their involvement and they move on from their momentary disappointment.

Those kids don’t need to worry about fit quite so much. This describes a lot of kids I know- some of whom ended up at their first choice college, and were really happy, some of whom ended up at their last choice college and were also really happy.

Then there are kids who are just “pricklier” if that’s the right word. If you are raising one of those you know it. That’s where I think fit is really important. This is why the self-selected group of “I’m so unhappy I need to transfer” kids on CC are so hard to help. I try- but it’s hard to tell from a post if you are communicating with a gloomy gus who is going to be unhappy at college- virtually any college, or if it’s a kid who ended up at Liberty who really belonged at Marlboro or Evergreen (to make an obvious compare and contrast on fit). Or the kid who is at Pepperdine who is miserable but would have thrived at U Wisconsin.

So I think it’s hard to help strangers with fit, but a lot easier with your own kid. You also get a gut feel on how your kid is going to react to the academic pressure of college. There are kids who want to be in the middle of the pack, or even the bottom, and really relish having to work hard and have brilliant classmates who just get stuff the first time around, and they don’t worry about getting a B on a paper or a C on a problem set. And there are kids who wilt if they sense that they aren’t top dog. That’s part of fit.

There are kids who love to walk across campus and say hi to 50 people, and even in HS they made chitcat with the maintenance staff and the lunchroom cashier and they love a small, close knit campus where they know everyone. And there are kids who plan to be somewhat anonymous for four years where freshman year they can be a theater geek, and sophomore year they can be a CS nerd and junior year they can reinvent themselves again as a social justice warrior. And they want a big, diverse campus where their friend groups don’t always coincide. That’s fit.

So start with your own kid. I went to a HS where there were over 1,000 kids in my senior class, so I step foot on a small college and it feels absolutely suffocating to me. And I have contemporaries who had 80 kids in their HS classes, and the idea of going to a college with a 40,000 student body sends them into a panic!

You’ll figure it out. But in my experience, worry less about the mechanics of “is U Conn too rural” and more about what your kid wants and hopes for… the mechanics are pretty easy…

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@one1ofeach , I also wanted to add that our CCs do follow up with the kids they’ve placed, so they often have info they can use to help your kid with fit. I recall one school that DS asked about – his CC pretty much flat out told him that it was socially probably a bad fit.

Not saying this will always work, but your kid’s CC may have a better sense of who his friends are and who he is socially as well as how that aligns with how previous grads have found their colleges. I realize not all CCs are so “fit-focused” but if your kid wants that to be an emphasis, he should be clear about that and report candidly after visits about his impressions.

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^ Interesting- I would think that would be one of the things the bs cc’s would all do? What a great fit resource to have - bs alums who know your kid and are attending the schools your kid are interested in?

I think Cate does an East Coast tour for junior year spring break. Iirc, they check in with Cate alums while on the various campuses. I didn’t think of it as a fit thing. But if you think about it, our kiddos will have a vast network of friends out there to help them with fit. Huh. Cool.

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I also hadn’t even considered that but it is a huge resource. Very interesting!

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This has been a very helpful thread. I have wondered how well DS will be able to discern the right fit I the college process. He had a good intuitive sense in the BS process, but it seems there are so many more variables with college. To date we have mostly tried to build a list, not nit- pick and cross schools off. We have our big college planning symposium this week, and you have given me some helpful things to ask about — thank you!

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I will caution, based on experiences of friends at other schools (mostly day and none mentioned frequently on these boards), that it is really important to stress fit over prestige to your CC. Think about all the “I know xyz BS is better because of its college matriculation list” posts here on CC. Private schools know that isn’t a way to judge the quality of the school AND they know college matriculation lists are important to many prospective applicants. And they want to keep parents happy through the process. And some schools, especially students, have their own culture around college prestige. So it is easy for a CC to believe that prestige is most important.

For example, a dear friend’s D spent her final “decision” weekend in tears because she wanted to choose Tufts over Yale and her CC was really pressuring her to choose Yale, which she did.

So one question I would ask of your CC team is what % of kids transfer and what tend to be the circumstances around that. DS knew a couple kids who went to a school to play a sport and for one reason or another, stopped playing and then wanted a different school. It’s a cautionary tale for an athlete, but not something that will affect the rest of us.

Really, as stressful as this is, you will be in great hands with your BS CC and it’s fun to spend time with your kid as he imagines his many possible futures.

@CTMom21 , great approach. Your open mind will serve you well. It’s incredible how many fabulous schools are out there.

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As a general indicator, colleges at which most students find themselves well-matched tend to register high graduation rates.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

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This is a great thread, especially since DS and the CC dept are just starting their collaborative efforts to find him a college that fits.
He is a kid who really knows what he wants and does a lot of research before making decisions. He also recognizes when he’s made mistakes and learns from them (on a call just last night- “well, we had no idea what we were doing with the BS application process”).

He devised a list of 9 schools to visit with acceptance rates ranging from 12% to 66%, all very strong in his desired area of study. They have many similarities on paper and are all under 15K students. The schools over 8K students he’s leery about, so he’s waiting to see if they feel too big. We already have a Spring Break tour planned for 4 schools and an end of year tour planned for the remaining 4.
Suddenly, he sends me a list with a bunch of additions…any of which make absolutely no sense. When I asked him what in the world, he tells me the CCs told them they needed a long list and a short list.

Ummm why would you make a “long list” of schools you know don’t fit for one reason or another just for the sake of a long list??? And isn’t 9 long enough?!?!

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@buuzn03 My experience with the process is that some families, such as yours, are way ahead of the curve in terms of researching colleges and thinking about fit. Those families will not be well served by the traditional CC process, which is aimed at bringing everyone to the place you’ve already reached. My kid was in a similar situation and just went through the motions of submitting required but useless lists, because it was easier than arguing at every step why this isn’t helpful. Having done your homework, you may also find that all webinars, group meetings, communications, and even face-to-face meetings aren’t giving you anything that you don’t know already. So just take comfort in the fact that you’re well ahead and trust your own judgment. You’ve got this!