Allegheny | Ithaca | McDaniel | Bradley - Add to the list?

College Search & Selection
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S17 is finalizing his list. I’d previously posted here

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1863992-west-coast-west-schools-for-environmental-science-for-a-solid-b-student.html#latest

However, his parameters have changed a bit and as a result, so has the search! I’d love some input on the schools still in play. We will not be able to visit any until after acceptances come in.

The basics.

Solid B+ kid on the verge of an A-. Not so exciting ACT (24, 25 superscore, and at the moment will not retake). Decent rigor though likely will not get the “most” vigorous box. Tough to say on that one, it could go either way and he’s got a new GC. School does not weight or rank. He’ll have taken 6 AP’s at graduation (Both English, Physics, APES, WH and Calc AB), 3 honors classes and one “college in the classroom”.

EC’s. Music, Theater, tons of Community Service, Composting Committee, and some sports (tennis and swim) though not since sophomore year. 2nd degree black belt TKD and 2 jobs.

Summer stuff: One mission trip to Arkansas to work on a farm that provides food to local communities, one summer class at a local directional college that was specific to his area of interest, 1 college credit earned.

Looking for Environmental Science/Studies but ideally a school that also has environmental policy, possibly sustainability studies and really anything sustainable/renewable energy focused without going full on engineering. Wants the opportunity to continue playing jazz as a non major and possibly continue theater tech work.

Tree hugging liberal west coast kid who doesn’t want a ton of sun, prefers trees mountains and rain but also wants to live somewhere totally different…as long as different means east coast or mid atlantic lol. I realize there is one midwest school on the list below but in general he’s vetoed everything (which is too bad but it is what it is). Preferred size is under 15K tops and ideally under 10, or 8. Loves the feel of the LAC’s and the CTCL schools in general have been good fits. He’s decided that the Vermont LAC’s are too remote and has zeroed on on PA, MD and NY. He’d take Massachusetts but I’ve yet to find an affordable option that checked enough boxes.

Budget is really 35K or less, ideally. Though a bit more isn’t entirely impossible it is not desireable. Looking for schools that offer merit at his stats which more often than not, is in parts of the country he has zero interest in. We currently have a list of 5 schools, only one of which is a true financial safety. The remainder have a chance at being affordable based on NPC results but also have a chance at not. S is quite aware of this.

There are some financial safety backups with rolling admissions that if we really had to, we could pull into the mix but he would be happy at the financial safety so I don’t think we will need to go there.

Current list.

Goucher, Ursinus, UVM, University of Puget Sound, Western Washington University

Considering adding Ithaca, McDaniel, Allegheny, Bradley

Oregon State is sort of still in the mix but that’s truly based on program offerings, it is far larger than he wants and far too “similar” to home in his mind.

Thanks!!!

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@eandesmom Hi, we’ve met on other threads. I can’t really comment on any of the proposed additions, though my S18 has Ithaca on his list (don’t ask me why, because he wants an LAC). But, I did want to ask about why he’s not considering Knox (also CTCL) if he’s willing to consider Bradley. They are only an hour apart. Knox has an environmental studies major with an interesting biological field station, what looks like a 3-2 environmental management major, with good theater and music opportunities. Seems like it checks all the boxes. Their NPC was spot on (+/- considering that the NPC was based on the previous year’s COA) when D15 applied, so that should give you an idea of the money end of things.

P.S., Knox is test-optional.

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@1518mom well to be honest he’s entirely lukewarm on Bradley for location but the programs and overall school size are spot on so I’m trying to get him to really consider it. Plus it does look to be a financial safety. I’ve not looked that closely at Knox, I’ll take another peek, thanks! He’s vetoed Beloit and Lawrence as well as all of Ohio so I’ve been generally avoiding schools in the area unless they had something compelling. At Bradley he’d get the school size he wants with some of the engineering related class options if he wanted, without majoring in it and that’s attractive (and not an option at the LACs) .

With his GPA (3.45 UW, 3.7W approximately…we don’t weight) I’m not sure test optional really helps (plus it would add an essay in most cases I think). But I could be wrong about that.

I think the size of Ithaca is appealing for an LAC type kid. It’s larger than most of the LACs but not approaching state school size, and I know that’s part of what keeps it on our list. It seems “just right” size wise. At least on paper lol.

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Ithaca does sounds like a good fit for his preferences. Given Ithaca’s strength in the performing arts, however, I would look into which music opportunities/ensembles are open to non-majors. At some schools with strong music/theatre programs, non-majors are locked out of top ensembles and productions but have separate ensembles for non majors. At others (including many smaller schools) non-majors are welcome in all ensembles if they pass the audition. I am not sure which category Ithaca fits into, so worth checking.

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Has vetoed all of Ohio??? Wooster & OWU are terrific schools that would fit his interests. Their “sweet spot” is the B+ student, and they have amazing faculty and facilities, internship opportunities, and highly successful graduates. D’s friend, a theatre major at Wooster, has already had a lead role in a play, as well as a summer internship with the Ohio Light Opera, and she is only just beginning her sophomore year.

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Hi @eandesmom I wonder if Dickinson in Carlisle, PA might be worth a look? His ACT would fall below the 25% line but Dickinson is test optional. It has a good program in Environmental Science/Studies and the campus emphasizes sustainability, locally sourced food (some from its own organic farm), etc. I don’t know how generous their need-based aid is or if it would work for your budget. They do offer merit scholarships, but in that case, they do want test scores. There is an EA admissions round.

I have not visited the campus but my research has led me to believe that there is a mix of students and while Greek life is visible it is not overwhelming. The town of Carlisle has been recognized in “most walkable/most bikeable” surveys and opportunities for outdoor recreation are not far away. Their internship and career placement office is said to be very good.

I know that he’s vetoed Ohio but from my point of view I don’t see a whole lot of difference between PA and OH, especially if he’s considering Allegheny College! :slight_smile: If he changes his mind, I can steer you towards some good OH options.

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@classicalsaxmom you are correct that it could be more challenging at Ithaca. It is tough to say. They state there is a non major jazz band (as well as a concert band). Neither appear to be audition based and are mostly non majors or majors playing a second instrument. We would need to confirm on the jazz but it definitely sounds like he could play at a relatively low commitment level.

There are also audition based ensembles and all are open to non majors but I suspect the chances there are much lower. You never really know though. I was quite surprised at UPS, where all are audition based. They made it very very clear they are in need of his instrument (trombone) and that his chances of playing were very good, as were his chances of possible scholarship money even as a non music major.

@MidwestDad3 yes, all of Ohio. Sigh. Really not sure why and have tried many times to open his mind to it. That said, sadly, Wooster doesn’t offer environmental science at all or I’d likely be pushing harder as otherwise it seems perfect (and is stalking him with a LOT of mail lol). I think he’s being ridiculous and would like Columbus and should consider Wes. It would be affordable if their NPC is accurate. Upper end but doable. However, the “Wesleyan” part of it is an issue for him, he will not considered any religiously affiliated schools. And while I realize that it’s loose at best at Wes, the “battling bishop” mascot doesn’t make it an easy sell lol!

Ohio University was in play for a bit as they have a nice new energy program but it was vetoed.

@mamaedefamilia Hi! Sorry if I was not clear. No need based aid here as a general rule. At some of the privates it will kick in as their COA is so high to bring it down to our FAFSA EFC or either own calculated EFC, both of which are far higher than we can pay. Unfortunately even if you are paying for your stepkids to go to college, they don’t get counted in the financial picture and it looks like we can afford a lot more than we really can. Which in many cases does not make a difference but at a lot of these target LAC’s, it would. Oh well. Dickinson is one of those, they show a 10K grant which puts COA still at 57k. Far over budget. Sadly. There are LOT of lovely schools that would work for him out there in the reach category, Dickinson being one of them but as to your point, he will be in the 25th quartile…they aren’t throwing money at him either. I’ve looked at Dickinson a ton ot times hoping to make it work but at best I suspect he would get a $7,500 - 10K scholarship on top of the grant. COA still 47-50k, a no go.

With his GPA I just don’t see how test optional helps him. If it was out of line with the test scores maybe, but it’s really not. A lot of his schools are test optional but that generally requires an extra essay and my school of thought has been that if his current score has him in the middle 50, which it does at all the schools on his list, then I am hard pressed to see the advantage of not sending them. I could be wrong although if so, it’s too late on the 5 schools they’ve already been sent to plus I can’t see him agreeing to extra essays!

Allegheny is barely hanging on, and it’s really due to location. He can’t get his arms around the cities nearby and where he could get to if he wanted to. But they are very strong in ENVS, he made a nice connection with them at a CTCL fair, and so for the moment, it’s still a maybe.

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Have you considered Earlham? I know that it’s in the midwest but it has a lot to offer including a huge campus. Likewise, he might consider Hendrix. It’s a top-rated school for teaching and has a Costa Rica trip that’s popular there.

https://www.hendrix.edu/internationalprograms/internationalprograms.aspx?id=35318

Muhlenberg–has strong theater, nice size, excellent grad rate–not too much sun! Pennsylvania but closer to Philly.

Juniata–solid school that seems to give a lot to it’s students.

Marlboro has a Renaissance full scholarship, lots of environmental opportunities, gorgeous campus.

Unity college in Maine is 100% environmental and Maine is amazing

College of the Atlantic

University of Maine at Orono is offering to match in-state tuition

St Mary’s of Maryland is a public institution, on the seashore of Chesapeake Bay with a country club like atmosphere. Close to DC and Annapolis. Not religious at all. Maryland’s Honors LAC

St John Schools of Annapolis and Santa Fe (Two campuses) are private and known for reading. Not religious at all.

Hobart and William Smith are two colleges on one campus, finger lakes area of NY.

Wells college offers a chance to take some classes at Cornell which may appeal.

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Thanks @Dustyfeathers!!! we’ve looked at many of your suggestions. I was really hoping for feedback on the 4 I was asking about, not new suggestions but a quick response as I really do appreciate the ideas.

The kid is VERY specific about location and requirements and doesn’t want too small (under 1200) and would ideally like 5-6k. If the school is outside of the location it is an absolute non starter

Location no’s based on state/climate
-Earlham, Hendrix. I also have personal reasons for not wanting him in Indiana (family drama stuff).

Location no’s based on actual location of school in relation to other cities accessible by public transportation
-Juniata-- was on the list, recently removed, too remote for him

Financial no’s
-Muhlenberg-- would be on the list if it were affordable. They will offer merit at his stats but not enough.
-Hobart and William Smith, not affordable

Other no’s
-University of Maine at Orono. Too big and the ENVS is heavily Marine. He decided Maine was too remote and between Vermont and Maine only wanted to keep UVM on the list. We did look at several LAC’s between the 2 states
-Marlboro, College of the Atlantic - too small
-Unity college - too narrowly focused. He needs options if he changes his mind. SUNY ESF is not an option for the same reason.

I have not looked at the following (although St. Anything gets an immediate negative reaction)

St Mary’s of Maryland is a public institution, on the seashore of Chesapeake Bay with a country club like atmosphere. Close to DC and Annapolis. Not religious at all. Maryland’s Honors LAC

St John Schools of Annapolis and Santa Fe (Two campuses) are private and known for reading. Not religious at all.
Wells college offers a chance to take some classes at Cornell which may appea

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Hi again @eandesmom. Two other schools you might consider looking closer at are Marist and the University of Rochester. Marist was originally a Catholic school but hasn’t been for decades and seems to be at pains to describe itself as independent. Probably about an hour and a half from NYC. Beatiful campus and looks like interesting environmental and music options. UR may be a bit on the reachy side but maybe not. The Eastman school of music at UR is world class and on the surface it looks like there may be opportunities for non majors. Seems like merit is available at both schools for the right student. Just food for thought.

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@oldbrookie thanks, I’ve looked at both and neither seem affordable but are really solid options if they were. Both appear to offer merit at his stats but as usual…not enough. I’ll double check though.

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And double checked, memory was correct lol. Marist would come in around 46. Rochester at 60.

Even if we could afford that, I’m hard pressed to see any college being with a quarter of a million dollars for undergrad.

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The schools themselves seemed like they might have promise but I agree with you, way too much money.

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The schools are lovely, sigh. The costs…not so much.

A lot of our searching has been to find “like” schools at affordable prices. Ursinus for example is on the list basically as a replacement for Muhlenberg. Not that they are the same but many of the qualities that attract my S to Muhlenberg for location, exist at Ursinus.

It does mean on the whole we have to target lower ranked, or lesser known/popular match schools versus any reaches and as such simply find the best match schools we can.

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"Wells college offers a chance to take some classes at Cornell . . . "

Wells is very small–I think probably too small and too isolated given what you’ve said about his preferences, OP. We visited Wells 2 years ago, but D ruled it out based on size and limited course offerings (due in part to its small size). It’s half the size of Earlham.

Ithaca College also offers cross-registration with Cornell, and is much closer: right across the street versus a 40-minute drive over winding roads. But take a close look at how cross-registration works in reality. Find out how many students get to take courses that they actually want or need over at Cornell.

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@MidwestDad3 that’s really interesting, I did not know that about Ithaca. I’m going to do some digging there, thank you!

rsinus has a new semester in Philadelphia with Drexel partnership opportunity threat has promise.

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@eandesmom, for what it’s worth, we toured Ursinus last year and we all loved it. Lovely campus, very nice tour guide, and good merit new merit program for high stats students.