My son is a visual artist and seeking education to build a career. However, traditional art education has tremendous problems (seriously - we got money back from one of the top 5 US art schools).
He is a digital artist but loves making with his hands. He was raised in art and is exceptionally frustrated with the way art schools all center their education around post-modern conceptualism (now a 50 year old archaic concept).
After withdrawing from that top 5 school, he has continued to search for the right way forward.
Now an interesting idea has come up. Any thoughts on getting an art school to work with us on it would be appreciated.
I have been in film/video writing, directing and production for 25 years making national advertising (among many other things). My son and I have started a documentary about a well known international artist friend of ours. We’ve hit a really sweet idea that will take a year to produce/create and will involve considerable hard work. The entire video will be about art and the making of art.
THE THEORY: We would like an art school to accept him part time - we’re thinking he takes one class and uses this major project to get credit for independent study.
Based on what happens with all that, then he could decide whether to go to school full time or take the work he’s done a pursue editor/DP jobs directly.
Any ideas about how should he/we/I go about approaching a school to make this happen?
I don’t know any art schools that would let you “try them out” on such a basis. But there are many that have extra classes in specialized subjects–I would search for those. There are schools with certificate programs in different subjects–I think Pratt has a few.
I know you had a bad experience with the art school your son initially selected because their approach was conceptual. Not all schools have that approach and you should research those.
To be clear, this isn’t a “try and buy” approach. Rather, creating this documentary would be the equivalent to an MFA project. The artist subject is an incredible source of learning at a very advanced level of art. And given my connections we’ll be getting some type of distribution - details unknown.
Just seems smart to try to get him credit for doing it AND see if it leads to more education or if he chooses to pursue more advanced real work.
Look at schools like Goddard (low residency, work independently with faculty from a distance, 10 days on campus per semester), Hampshire (independent project-based), or Bennington (field work term).
This isn’t the first thread on this topic (conceptualism at art schools).
There ARE some schools that don’t have that predominant focus or aesthetic.
His most experience is digital - photography, video editing/photoshop, some graphic design. He also has excellent hand making skills, but doesn’t have an area of focus. He’s interested in a lot of areas - had hoped to be challenged to develop drawing skills but the concept emphasis ended being pretty skill free…
I second Bennington as a school that would probably let him do that. My nephew got his masters in art ed there. But far warning - it is super hippy dippy in general. Also it’s very rural, we’re talking bucolic rolling green hills and cows. We love VT for day trips, but my own pragmatic art kid was all ‘hell no’. ;D
There are several major flaws in your idea in my opinion.
Independent projects are usually done by students junior or senior year. They are allowed to do this after taking the school’s requirements and being guided/ instructed towards a final project as a culminating goal. What will other students think of your son stepping in and doing this without taking any classes? What has he done to deserve this honor? Aren’t you also implying that the faculty has nothing to teach him? Yes, you and your artist friend are professionals and successful, but your son is not. A school needs to see your son’s work and growth, not yours. The fact that you are presenting it as a collaborative project would be viewed negatively.
Student films are just that. Conceived, written, directed etc. by students with limited guidance by faculty. They are a collaborative effort among students. Students do EVERY aspect of the film. Clearly your son does not have the experience to do that, cannot take on all roles, and as an outsider, does not have a network of other students to work with.
If you don’t have enough regard for a school to send him there as a full-time degree seeking student, why would they make this arrangement with you?
You need to decide: If a degree is important, have your son navigate the school he chooses just so he has a degree, whether or not you approve of their process or philosophy fully. (By the way, what does your son think of all this–does he share your same disgust of all art schools?)
Or, take the stance that he can be successful by being self-taught or home-schooled by you and let him work on this project with you and then use the reel to try to get employment without a degree. Of course, he will have to explain that a parent worked on it with him, which may be problematic again.
That’s a pretty narrow minded view of school but one consistent with the incredibly narrow way society has come to look at it. Skill is incredibly important in art. And the opportunity to build skill at a very high level is also incredibly important - something the art school we are thinking about doesn’t offer for film - so it’s not competition.
There’s nothing implied in this about thinking there’s nothing for him to learn there - although I have concluded art schools don’t understand what they don’t offer. And skill IS something they are missing.
@atlascentaur I undersatand you championing for your son to get the best education and skills possible. But if he seeks a degree from an academic institution, you are are entering into a specific realm with rules and regulations that both parties are bound to. There’s perhaps some leeway, but not much. To grant a degree, most institutions require 128 credits. In order to keep their accreditation, schools have to abide by requirements.
You seem well connected and knowledgeable about film. Why not have your son get a degree in a related subject (film history, English) part-time, and work with him on projects or help guide him into internships to gain the skills you feel art schools don’t provide? As for drawing skills, I’m sure he can find classes to hone those skills that are non-credit.
@atlascentaur If it’s working in film your son is focused on, then why not just work on films as a PA and get some experience in the field? It’d be more like an apprenticeship which would probably be more worthwhile than getting a degree you/he doesn’t seem to value and he may not need.
Not everyone needs a college degree and it sounds like you guys aren’t big fans of art schools anyway.
I’m personally not a fan of postmodern conceptual art myself. Some people love concepts; I love to see drawing and painting skill WITH great concepts, that’s what floats my boat. Personal preference. That said, we are starting to look at art schools for my teen (it’s early yet), and it appears that many of them take production arts very seriously. How could they not in this modern world of film, television, and digital communication?
I have no idea whether an art school would do what you and your son are proposing, but it couldn’t hurt to approach one and just see what they say. The worst that could happen is they say no and then say, “But if he loves film and production art, look at x school.” If you are worried about rubbing school the wrong way, maybe approach not your first choice of school as a “practice run.”
If anyone wants a challenge where drawing skills are concerned, hands down, an Atelier program is the way to go. You will eat, sleep and breathe drawing. Figure drawing, Cast drawing, Landscape, Portraiture.
Once drawing is mastered you move on to same as before but adding paint and other medium to your now hardcore drawing skills.
Some places may even offer sculpting as well as print making, ceramics, welding, glass blowing etc
Smaller private ateliers can be expensive, but check your city to see if something similar to the Art Students League" exists. (not sure I am allowed to post the link here)
What we found is they all SAY they take production arts seriously. But that doesn’t mean they deliver on that in reality. A few distinctions…
One art college talked proudly about their sound program - sound design is a critical production art. But what they did with sound was “creating sound as art” NOT “sound design”.
Same is true with many film programs. There are “making art first…it happens to be on film” vs “making great films that people want to watch.”
A friend of mine in the film biz went to Tisch in the 1990’s. At that time, each project was graded for a set of things INCLUDING whether it would be accepted in Hollywood. She told me her team created something with a dark ending once - it was marked down because it didn’t fit their intention of teaching film the way it was needed in the film industry.
What they made was probably a fine “art movie” but it didn’t meet their “film industry” requirements.
I do NOT know if Tisch is still as carefully committed to film as it was. Have tried to find out but don’t have an answer yet.
Agree with Atelier programs. And those, also, are not for everyone. As a good artist friend of mine observes: It’s all about finding your OWN way - and use learning from books, classes, other artists, mentors, etc to find your OWN way. A good perspective.
@atlascentaur My D uses “sound art” in her work. But she is not talking production sound either. It just shows that terminology can be misleading. However, I don’t think it’s a case of bait and switch. Just a misunderstanding between you and the schools.
My D is a sculptor and some of her work is installation art with sound. (A piece called Mikvah has her chanting Hebrew prayers until she is parched.The piece includes silicon to create a pool of water at ones feet. In another work she has a table set up to indicate loneliness and again her singing sets the mood and tells a story.)
Her professional profile indicates that she uses sound art in her work.
As for Tisch… He doesn’t want to just throw himself at another program. Good news is he’s learned appropriate adult caution. So we’ll probably do the summer program, maybe try what I outlined above, then see where it goes.
Fascinating discussion with UCLA about their summer film program. They require a creative writing sample. My son asks “why not a portfolio?”. I think… Good question. So I email and ask.
Their answer? Anything other than story would make them just a “trade school”. Um. Er. Uh.
My respectfully written (but fundamentally a bit snarky) reply to them had essentially two parts:
Many learn their way INTO film and stories by focusing on learning the crafts. (That's a very typical scenario in most professions.)
A film school focus on theory of story would explain why (in my business) young film school grads have always proven incompetent - they don't ACTUALLY know how to make great movies - just the top level.
Fascinating. A University has got to make your choices. But I wouldn’t have made those.
Just a quick note. After discussions with UCLA about their summer program (and I have directed many national TV commercials and owned a production company), we have rejected it. Classic of film programs, no wonder their graduates don’t know how to make film.
It appears that USC offers the better options for their summer film work. They have very smart, targeted and productive classes in things like editing (including a class specializing in the AVID system) and Cinematography. The folks at UCLA called cinematography “technical”. Wow. Guess who brings the art to movies? The cinematographers.