What are you saying? That you need a “hypothetical” admit rate? It is what it is. Would you want to re-calculate or adjust admit rates for all colleges that “claim” to be need-blind? Besides, this thread is not about how PA’s admit rate is low, which it is but not the lowest out there, and I believe it was one of the lowest even before it “claimed” to be need blind.
I’ll let @PhotographerMom explain herself (if she wants to), but I’ve always said that being NB is 1. a disadvantage to the disadvantaged and 2. impossible, given the clues of one’s application.
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@stargirl3: If you are to debate on the concept of need blind and how it is and/or should be practiced, that would probably be “out of scope” of this thread. It is not a new concept though, and I think all those need blind institutions know what they are talking about.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Need blind admissions is really going off topic. Additionally, Andover’s need blind claims have been covered exhaustively in other threads, such as:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1640845-can-andover-be-truly-need-blind-in-admission-even-if-it-wanted-to-be.html
What’s not revealed in the stat is how many of the alumni applications were hook-marked as confirmed or potential donors. A parent once told me that her alumna status didn’t help her wait-listed son when she couldn’t pledge her “active participation” that the dean called her for it.
Sucks to be that legacy kid that gets rejected. You can’t even console yourself with 14% admit rate odds.
@jwalche: I can understand that legacy pool in general is where more likely the school will be able to identify “development cases” and potential donors, but I can’t imagine that a pledge of donation is a “condition” for the majority of legacy admits. It certainly happens, which I’ve heard of in both colleges and prep schools. I do think that many multi generation alumni are long term loyal donors, but not necessarily all of them are donating in huge amount that would cost an arm and a leg.
@panpacific I am sorry if I sounded like all successful legacy applicants are donors. I didn’t mean that. Nonetherless I think a poor legacy applicant wouldn’t be able to enjoy that 58% admission rate.
@jwalche: That may be true but it’s not unique to the legacy applicants. Let’s face it. In general, kids coming from well off families do tend to be better prepared for elite schools because academic readiness and extracurricular achievements are related to the family resources. Look at the private colleges including the most generous HYP, kids from the upper middle class and wealthy families take a lot more seats, unproportional to their share of the whole population.
I’m not going to get into the nitty gritty here, but I’ve got a kid that on paper looks like the ideal legacy applicant - with legacy connections to two top schools.
Top grades in advanced classes
Top SSAT scores
Less represented state
Full pay
Athlete (probable varsity freshman year)
She got waitlisted at both. “Sucks to be that legacy kid that gets rejected”. Why yes, yes it does.
@panpacific I agree with you for all your points. My point was that, just being a legacy without confirmed or prospect of donation might be less of a hook than the stat may suggest. It was an objective (I think) deduction without any moral judgement.
@jmtabb sorry to hear that
@jmtabb: I went back and checked a few of your posts. A couple of thoughts. It sounds like you and your kid have been very unlucky this admission season. There is something off, as you yourself suspected. As a poster pointed out upthread, even without her legacy status, your kid sounds like one every school wants - academic, athletic, domestic and full pay. Given the negative outcomes from multiple schools, that something “off” must be something substantial and obvious, more than a bad essay for example (a particular recommendation letter raising serious red flags however could be it). I would reach out to all these schools especially the ones you have legacy connections and sincerely ask for their feedback and see if you could get an honest answer from them. Secondly, could the double legacy status work against you by any chance? Looking at your kid on paper, she should have no problem getting in one of the top schools. For that reason, legacy school A might feel you were “lukewarm” to them, and thought you’d choose legacy school B. And legacy school B might think the same thing and believe you’d choose legacy school A. The non-legacy schools were convinced you’d choose one of your legacy schools or at least believed that your kid had no problem getting in a top school and they’d rather give their spot to someone who “needed it more” and were more likely to attend their school. Just some random thoughts… That’s tough. Sorry your kid and you had to go through this.
Here’s the thing that all of this analyzing sometimes seems to overlook: in the end, at most of the schools we’re regularly discussing here, many more kids are turned away than admitted. I n our particular case, yes, I think the legacy at two schools worked against us. It was a multiple generation legacy at each school and I can see how each would think we might choose the other.
As so many point out on these boards, top grades and top test scores only get you so far. These schools are looking for certain types of kids. Maybe part of the problem is that she doesn’t easily fit into those types.
I’d also say we were naive going into the interviews. There’s a lot I’d do differently if we go through this again.
But in the end, Kids who need aid think it’s that need for aid that kept them out. Kids who have decent but not super high test scores think they needed to be at a higher level to get the acceptance. Kids from New England think it’s because they are from an over represented area. Asian kids think it’s because they are over represented minorities. Families without legacy connections think it’s because they can’t trace their family history at the school going back 100 years.
As a parent of a kid who “checked the boxes” in her favor on many of the variables I can safely say that none of these things is the “golden ticket”.
@jmtabb - I apologize for making such a callous remark that probably has rubbed salt in a wound given your daughter’s outcome. I am sorry to hear about your daughter’s admission experience. Will she be reapplying?
@jmtabb - Is there any movement off the waitlist is everyone insulted enough that no appeal to the schools were made. It seems like these schools want you to pick them and I am sure that you would get off the waitlist if you declared loyalty to a particular school, especially given the legacy connection.
There’s been no movement for us off the waitlist, either for local day schools or for boarding school. We decided as a family that another year to gain some maturity is probably needed and are not pushing the schools and their waitlists for fall, though some inquiries were made at the one boarding school and one local private school that were at the top of our list. In retrospect, I can see that none of the schools we applied to were a perfect fit and maybe that impression came through as well.
The good news is that the local public school is OK, especially in the more advanced classes where we’ll be. It’s just big and overcrowded.
We’ve started getting mail for school visits and applications for next year already (!), but have decided to hold on making any decisions about reapplying until the fall.
@jmtabb… without going into too much detail, we had a similar experience. While we had no legacy, we had a kid who seemed that she should have been a shoe in at least at one school where we applied. WL’d everywhere! We tried again and she was successful. Go for it!!!
Post # 24 : " A parent once told me that her alumna status didn’t help her wait-listed son when she couldn’t pledge her “active participation” that the dean called her for it. "
No offense but I find this HIGHLY unlikely. No school or “dean” would ever ask for a donation/pledge prior to a decision. That’s absolutely ridiculous.
Like the television commercial with the Grandmother displaying her “FB Photos” on the living room wall :
It doesn’t work that way.
Boarding Schools measure devotion differently and it varies from school to school. Legacy isn’t always about " The Money" . Did the alum participate ( on some level ) since their graduation ( AG, Reunions, Class Gifts, Receptions for Prospective or New families, Alum Receptions, AO Correspondence with Accepted Students/ Parents, etc. ) and bring a viable candidate to Admissions? Or, did they show up on the school’s doorstep ( with a borderline candidate ) like some long lost relative seeking special treatment?
I don’t know one BS alum who looked at their child’s legacy application like it was a “Sure Thing”- myself ( and family members ) included and I’m talking about the Viable Legacy Candidate- Heavy Participation- Demonstrated Devotion for Years/ Generations Crowd .
The BS Alum mentality some of you are describing is all wrong. That’s not how the vast majority of BS alums think. We have our own " stuff " to deal with- including the fiercely competitive applicant pool our kids are in.
That was exactly the mom was encouraged. They didn’t ask for money, although it was implied as an option of participation. The mom was asked if she can volunteer for school events and such. But as a working person thousand+ miles away from the school, she couldn’t find any of the options doable, except donation.
Yes, apparently.
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No the child was well qualified as I heard. Unless well qualified overall but without a hook is definition of being borderline.
She didn’t think it was a “Sure Thing” either. But she hoped for some benefit as was so much speculated on media. And was disappointed a bit to receive encouragement of active participation that she couldn’t do.
I agree with you. All I am saying is that just being legacy without confirmed or potential active participation (ok. not just donation. sorry about that) doesn’t seem to automatically benefit from the high legacy acceptance rate, which you seem to agree as well.
A non-rhetorical question: What “mentality” are you specifically talking about that some of us are describing? I mentioned earlier that the alum children applicant pool is highly self selected, so a high admit rate within that group doesn’t make admission a walk in the park. That said, if the 58% legacy admit rate relative to a 14% overall admit rate is representative of boarding schools, then however you slice it, legacy applicants as a whole do enjoy a sizable advantage, (edit: which I am not complaining. These are private schools living off alum’s donation and other types of participation to keep up and running. To build on the tradition is important.)