<p>We are not at all concerned with rank at our house. (Threw out the US News college issue as soon as the next week’s issue arrived.) </p>
<p>But…We do want our kids to be challenged and inspired. If they’ve spent the first 13 years of their education on an accelerated/honors/AP track, I’d like them to find something comparable in college. They whine of boredom when taking a grade-level class as a graduation requirement. So, based on that, their best <em>match</em> (see above) probably isn’t the state directional school with a middle SAT range of 900 - 1020 and HS GPA of 2.5. That’s not a search for rank, that’s a search for fit.</p>
<p>Nobody in our house (besides my knowledge gained from CC) even knows about college rankings and if they did, wouldn’t care. </p>
<p>S1 has an outside scholarship that could be used at many great schools all over the country. He chose one of our big state u’s…and not the one with the great ranking…he had absolutely no desire to go there even though it is highly ranked and fawned over by many.<br>
S2 is a freshman at a state directional school…loving it so far. All is well.</p>
<p>DH (in his family) and my sister and I (on my side) are the first and only members of our families to graduate from 4 yr. colleges. We were honor students in h.s (both in top 10 at same sch) We were so lucky to go to college much less quibble about rankings and reputations. It’s all turned out fine despite my unranked directional sch. education,lol.</p>
<p>No you are not alone. To this day, I have never read an issue of US News. Both of my kids applied to college with no knowledge whatsoever of their schools’ rankings. It didn’t matter to them at all. Oddly…we learned from the school websites (after acceptance and enrollment) that DS was attending a school in the top 60 and DD is at the number 2 masters university in the west. But their reasons for applying to these schools had nothing at all to do with “rankings”.</p>
<p>okay…I’ve never heard this term before… what is a “state directional school” ?? Is that a state regional school? What does the term “directional” mean???</p>
<p>Both Doug and Packmom used this term, so now “I’ve gots to know” :)</p>
<p>I think it means Eastern, Western, Northern, Southern in the name, e.g., Western Illinois University as opposed to University of Illinois. Correct me if I’m wrong.</p>
<p>“But…We do want our kids to be challenged and inspired. If they’ve spent the first 13 years of their education on an accelerated/honors/AP track, I’d like them to find something comparable in college. They whine of boredom when taking a grade-level class as a graduation requirement. So, based on that, their best <em>match</em> (see above) probably isn’t the state directional school with a middle SAT range of 900 - 1020 and HS GPA of 2.5. That’s not a search for rank, that’s a search for fit.”</p>
<p>Amen. My S took a medical leave from a top LAC ( USNs top 50-top half- near top of that) and spent a semester at our local state college. He took tough classes by the state school standards (I know because I am a professor there) and earned a 4.0 w/o much effort. That is not the case with his LAC.<br>
There are also many more job recruiters at his LAC. Many top businesses only recruit at the top ranked schools. </p>
<p>“College is a match to be made, not a prize to be won.” </p>
<p>I also say amen to this. My H went to undergraduate and graduate schools that were not the top ranked. He has been successful in his career. He is an Assoc. Dean and author of several books.</p>
<p>morrismm: >> “But…We do want our kids to be challenged and inspired. If they’ve spent the first 13 years of their education on an accelerated/honors/AP track, I’d like them to find something comparable in college. They whine of boredom when taking a grade-level class as a graduation requirement. So, based on that, their best <em>match</em> (see above) probably isn’t the state directional school with a middle SAT range of 900 - 1020 and HS GPA of 2.5. That’s not a search for rank, that’s a search for fit.”</p>
<p>Amen. My S took a medical leave from a top LAC ( USNs top 50-top half- near top of that) and spent a semester at our local state college. He took tough classes by the state school standards (I know because I am a professor there) and earned a 4.0 w/o much effort. That is not the case with his LAC.
There are also many more job recruiters at his LAC. Many top businesses only recruit at the top ranked schools. </p>
<p>“College is a match to be made, not a prize to be won.” </p>
<p>I also say amen to this. My H went to undergraduate and graduate schools that were not the top ranked. He has been successful in his career. He is an Assoc. Dean and author of several books.</p>
<h2>S, I guess I can see both sides. <<<<</h2>
<p>As far as “many top businesses only recruit at the top ranked schools” - that can be true sometimes - but it certainly is NOT “set in stone”.</p>
<p>Our local state university… UAH (a third tier school) has strong engineering, CompSci, and Physics departments. The university is located RIGHT NEXT to Cummings Research Park (the second largest research park in the nation -google it if you’ve never heard of it) - so its streets are loaded with top companies. They all recruit heavily from this university.</p>
<p>So… if a lower ranked univ has some strong programs that are needed by big companies that have divisions nearby, those students WILL get recruited (and they often get paid summer internships as well).</p>
<p>I doubt that many adults would say that rankings are a good basis for finding a school that works well for a particular student. However, like anything else, rankings can be a useful tool. They can actually help you discover things about schools you did not know and do allow an “apples to apples” comparison on some statistics. How you value those statistics is up to you. You might discover a gem of a school looking at these things. The problem comes with the overweighting of the statistics that the publications use and buying into the importance of these.</p>
<p>That said, I do think that students, more so than adults, can find themselves influenced by rankings. To the extent that talented students apply in greater numbers to top ranked schools because of their perception that they are getting value, it becomes sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy that those schools will have stand-out students at them. Once those schools have great numbers of talented students, others flock there. It’s not to say that a smart student cannot do famously well at many places, but as students look to be with the best and the brightest classmates–which can translate into stimulating activities in and out of the classroom–certain schools stay at the top of the rankings. So rankings do become a tool for finding these places. </p>
<p>People are equating looking at and considering rankings with buying that you’re lesser if you don’t go to one of the ones at the top. It’s not that rankings are so terrible–they’re just horribly abused by misguided students. Students do not realize that they just tell a small part of an elaborate and rich story.</p>
<p>The only reason I ever bought the US News issue was because it contained the addresses and CDS for school to be considered. Location was #1 in importance for D and S and the magazine helped narrow down the lists to schools where they would be competitive for merit money (of course they had to like the schools too ). Now with all the info on CC available for free, it isn’t even worth spending the $10 for the magazine. :D</p>
<p>I’d put myself somewhere in the middle on this. I care primarily about fit, but some of that potential fit may be reflected somewhat in the ranking. My oldest son is very, very smart. He also does better when he’s pushed to do his best, so for him the best fit is probably schools with a lot of ambitious schools filled with kids who already have the drive and innate ability to get good grades and scores. He applied to schools ranging in rank from 1 to about 65. He ended up turning down the top-ranked school in the country for #24. It’s a better fit for him because it has one of the top ranked computer science programs in the country, but it’s still pretty highly ranked overall. He has no regrets.</p>
<p>“I doubt that many adults would say that rankings are a good basis for finding a school that works well for a particular student. However, like anything else, rankings can be a useful tool. They can actually help you discover things about schools you did not know and do allow an “apples to apples” comparison on some statistics.”</p>
<p>Exactly, how many parents on this forum are going to say that rankings are the number one priority? Of course rankings matter but they aren’t the be all, end all. They’re just one piece of the puzzle.</p>
<p>I do look at the rankings. They do have their uses. What I have noticed is that people do not care as much about rankings when it comes their local schools or schools they know already. But for schools they do not know, the rankings do give them some sort of a picture. One thing that rankings usually indicate is whether the school has a strong campus community and whether the students are from many different areas and not a strong commuter school. That is the drawback of putting your child in a school like the Un of Alabama that I am sure is a great school for those who know it and are in the area. To stick a kid there from, say NY, may not be a great idea unless there is some connection there already. The flagship would be preferable because it has a more cohesive college community there, and more kids from elsewhere.</p>
<h2>cptofthehouse >>>…That is the drawback of putting your child in a school like the Un of Alabama that I am sure is a great school for those who know it and are in the area. To stick a kid there from, say NY, may not be a great idea unless there is some connection there already. The flagship would be preferable because it has a more cohesive college community there, and more kids from elsewhere. <<<</h2>
<p>FYI 24% of students at UA come from other states - that is roughly 1 in 4. Also, many of the “in-staters” are also originally from other states (like my kids - we are Californians who moved to AL a few years ago). </p>
<p>On Wednesday, my younger son (a senior in high school) and I got to “sit in” on a couple of honors classes at UA. Since honors classes are small (not to exceed 15 students), the profs had each student introduce him/herself and to say where each was from. These kids came from all different parts of the country, and a few came from Europe, Africa, China, and Japan.</p>
<p>So… I can see that it would be easy for a “New Yawker” to think that UA is filled with a bunch of local yokels, but it is not. And if you were to view (available online) where many/most of its profs come from, you will see a lot of HYP’s on the list. And… UAH (our local state uni) also has MANY students from out-of-state “blue states” because it is often cheaper to go there, then to one’s own in-state school - and because UAH has such strong Engineering, Comp Sci, and Physics departments (and better winter weather )</p>
<p>JL, take a look at the stats for the SUNYs. They are filled with “local Yorkels”. We have very few OOSers compared to many other state systems, in fact that is a big down side for the SUNYs. </p>
<p>I don’t know about Uof A, but usually such schools have more than the usual number of part time, non traditional student, very few kids living on campus–little campus housing available, and those kids who come from out of state most often come from neighboring states or have had an affiliation with the school. You don’t just get a school like that on your radar screen if you live in NY, for instance. The tuition would be double for a NYer as compared to what SUNY would cost, and it would be difficult to get a dorm so you would have to go and find a private place to live. It is primary a commuter school.</p>
<p>I am not meaning any disrespect to the school. My son goes to a SUNY and it is more than 90% New Yorker with most of the kids coming from an hour radius from the school. A lot of commuters which makes it a suitcase/commuter school to the point that it does effect the school atmosphere and provisions. He likes his program and a lot about the school but sees where it falls short in areas that schools like UMD, Penn State, UMich excell as they have so many full time undergrad students living on campus and staying there over weekends. It would be a tough decision for someone here to send a kid to UA Huntsville, just as it would for someone in Alabama to send a kid to SUNY Buffalo (doubt we have more than a handful of southerners much less Alabamans in our flagship school!). University of Alabama flagship, however, would be a different story. It isn’t so much the ranking as the entire make up of a school.</p>
<p>My close friend sent her son to UToledo and they live in Colorado. He wanted to go there because his cousins with whom he is very close are going there, and my friend was originally from Ohio. It was tough for the young man to stay there because of the factors I just mentioned. Toledo is a school similar to Huntsville in terms of on campus housing, amenites, commuters, local kids. That was an issue once he was there even though he had the company of his cousins and their friends to show him the ropes. The school just was not set up for kids who did not live within a couple of hours. Not something one can really understand just reading the description of the school.</p>
<p>It is a blessing if the child is pretty firm on what he wants to major in/do when he grows up. Some “no name” schools have terrific reputations in a certain area…for example, Music at University of North Texas. The old “normal schools” that are now large state universities usually have supurb teacher ed. programs. Getting into and graduating from such programs can often have more clout in the job market than a degree from a top tier schoool.</p>
<p>If your child wants a career in banking or real estate, for example, it is usually a big help to have gone to the big university in the city in which the child wants to work. For example, if you want to be a banker in Ft. Worth, or a real estate broker in Dallas, TCU and SMU, respectively, are where you would make the best possible contacts for your future career.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse; >>> I don’t know about Uof A, but usually such schools have more than the usual number of part time, non traditional student, very few kids living on campus–little campus housing available, …<<<</p>
<p>While some of your concerns are valid in respect to UAH (a local state U). UAH is a bit of commuter school, only 14% are from OOS and only 20% live on campus.</p>
<p>But, the flagship UA (where my son goes) has plenty of housing - beautiful housing - and they are building more; 30% living in campus housing, plus many students live in their frat/sorority houses (about 13% of school is Greek). Freshman are guaranteed housing and many kids live on campus (dorms or Greek housing) all 4 years. It is by no means “a commuter school”. Those who don’t live on campus, live in apartments which surround the university. Tuscaloosa is a college town, therefore few can “live at home” and drive to school. </p>
<p>UA does not have a lot of “part-time” or “non-traditional” students - I think you may be thinking of “directional universities” that have a lot of people working on their masters at night as so forth. UA has over 19,000 full time indergraduate students and only 1,720 part-time students. </p>
<p>UA draws students from all 50 states - largely because even it’s oos tuition is lower than the tuition at some students’ own State U - especially since many oos students can snag some merit aid to reduce those oos costs. </p>
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<p>Wow! “the entire makeup of the school” What does that mean? As a Californian I know Northeastern snobbishness when I see it. Boy, I’d be a little more discreet if I were you.</p>
<p>And… I’m not surprised that many Alabama students wouldn’t choose to go to SUNY-Buffalo (a 3rd tier masters), that has VERY few students from oos. Why go there when you have a top school with a real football team right here. Roll Tide. ;)</p>
<p>I don’t care about rankings but I do care about quality. Rankings are a very imperfect measure, but they do seem to have a general correlation with quality. If you are looking for a top quality general college education, your search will likely lead you to colleges that are near the top of the rankings. </p>
<p>Having said that, I agree that people (especially on C.C) tend to overemphasize rankings. You can get a great, quality education in many colleges that don’t rank too high, and you can graduate from a top ranked school with a lousy education. A lot depends on your own circumstances and your own efforts.</p>
<p>Whoa there, JL. You misunderstood my post, or I did not make it clear. I meant that it would be difficult to find New Yorkers or (other north east students) who would want to go to UAH, not the flagship school UA. Though I don’t think many New Yorkers end up even at UA, I am sure there are many more there than there areAlabamans, or the whole load of OOSers at all of the SUNYs. No question that UA is top Flagship university. I was not trying to say it was not. Sorry that I did not say things clearly and got the wrong idea across. My son would have picked UA over UB where he is any day if the same MT opportunities were there. I would put UA with the Penn State, UMD, U Michigan, Ohio State grouping that I mentioned. So you have me wrong, probably because of my awkward wording.</p>
<p>It’s UAH that I meant was not going to be a big draw, because it, like Toledo, or UB does not have the amenities of a major, well known, strong community, good all around university. Yes, the rankings and reputation (few people outside of area will know anything about UAH) are part of the reason, but it is also because of the type of school it is: lots of part time kids, large commuter population, few on campus dorms, many non traditional students. UA is a whole different story, and regardless of what the school is actually rated, it is considered a major university with major appeal and draw nationwide. I never intended to give any other such impression, I promise you. </p>
<p>I have often directed posters looking for full ride options to Momoftexas’s sthread on full ride scholerships. For those who want to leave home for college and have little or no payment options, that is one way to do it. The disadvantage of those schools, however, is that they are schools that often fall into the category of serving mainly commuter, local kids and it is not quite the college life some kids may be picturing when they say they want to go away to college. But UA is not a school that would appear on that list. ANyone getting a full ride from UA has to be waaaay up there in stats. It is not the sort of school that a lower than top rate student would have a chance for a full ride, unlike the schools on Momoftexas’s lists.</p>
<p>Thanks for clearing that up. I’m sorry if I misunderstood your post. It is true that to get free tuition to UA, one would have to have an SAT 1400+ (m + cr) or an ACT of 32+, but one could get 2/3 of tuition with lower scores. </p>
<p>I do think that many in the northeast do “look down” at southern schools. We saw that when we visited Vanderbilt (Nashville, TN) and there were northeastern kids who were being forced by their parents to do campus visits there because they were trying to find “back ups” for their kids who might not get accepted to NE schools. These people acted as if they were being forced to visit a 3rd world nation. These kids should be grateful to get accepted to Vanderbilt (Vandy as we call it) because it is a “top notch” school.</p>
). Now with all the info on CC available for free, it isn’t even worth spending the $10 for the magazine. :D</p>
He has no regrets.</p>