Toledo is pretty Michigan-ey in any case, now with rec weed in both, even more so 
Just curious, @OHMomof2, what is it about Toledo that makes it “Michigan-ey”, apart from weed?
I know it’s a carmaking town and a UAW town, and the Toledo Mudhens are the Detroit Tigers’ AAA farm club. There are also many Michigan Wolverines fans there, maybe 50-50 Wolverines and Buckeyes, and while Michigan football does a lot of recruiting all over Ohio, they seem to do particularly well in the Toledo area. But are there other things about Toledo that make it more “Michigan-ey” than other parts of Ohio? And what’s “Michigan-ey,” anyway?
@bclintonk understand I am currently an Ohio resident but not FROM Ohio when I answer this
What you said, plus Toledo is on the lake, right over the border from MI, seems to have residents of both states and seems to be mostly free of the “we don’t give a d–n for the whole state of Michigan” thing that is so prevalent down here closer to Columbus. And it legalized rec weed before Michigan did.
I am a fan of Michigan the state, don’t care about football. One of my favorite places to do a beach vacation, for sure.
Relative to CC, I think their flagship is also better, and has better financial aid than ours.
More Ohio-Michigan rivalry silliness, from Twitter:
Trevor D Logan, from the econ department of Ohio State, tweets:
The study’s first author, Susan Dynarski, from the University of Michigan’s econ department, replies:
I’m not sure how well the Michigan approach would work at Ohio State, where the need-based FA isn’t great. According to OSU’s latest CDS, they only meet 70% of need on average, and they meet full need for only 19% of their students with need. The full-tuition scholarship is nice and it gets the students’ attention, but for low-income students it’s that additional meets-full-need FA component that gets them in the door at Michigan.
As for Toledo: its unofficial nickname in some quarters is “Little Detroit,” it has Detroit-style Coney Islands, many people there use the Detroit Metro airport (just 45 miles from downtown Toledo), in addition to the Mudhens’ affiliation with the Detroit Tigers it has a minor league hockey team, the Walleye, affiliated with the Detroit Red Wings, and its public university, the University of Toledo, gives in-state tuition to residents of some southeast Michigan counties. So I guess it is something of a Michigan wannabe. I say Ohio should set Toledo free so it can rejoin Michigan, where its heart clearly lies.
The authors of the paper say in no uncertain terms that Michigan was a particularly good state to do this experiment in, because the University of Michigan is in general a better choice than other Michigan schools for the low income, high performing students they targeted. In other states, some private schools would be better than the flagship. They cite Massachusetts, where a targeted scholarship to UMass made its recipients worse off than they would have been at numerous private colleges that offered full tuition scholarships and have higher graduation rates.
They caution people who want to replicate their work in other states to make sure they’re improving the lives of the students they target.
Graduation rate is a good point. At Michigan, 87% of Pell grant recipients in the cohort entering in 2011 graduated within 6 years. That’s a bit less than the overall 93% 6-year graduation rate for that cohort, but not bad.
At Ohio State, in contrast, the overall 6-year graduation rate for the 2011 cohort was 83%, and for Pell grant recipients in that cohort it was 74%. So even if Ohio State succeeds in attracting more low-income students, recent history suggests roughly one in four of them won’t successfully complete a degree program. That makes it a much dicier proposition. I suspect much of this goes back to need-based FA. A shiny full-tuition scholarship is enticing, but if you don’t have money for room & board, books, clothing, and miscellaneous expenses, it becomes an untenable situation.
^ it’s guaranteed full tuition AND room/board if you apply for aid. So in effect the families were told there were scholarships for r/b and applied.
I think @bclintonk was referring to Ohio State, @MYOS1634 - not Michigan.
OSU recently began a free tuition program for Pell eligible students. But R&B and such are actually more than instate tuition. If a student lives in Columbus that’s one thing, but students outside 50 miles or something are required to live on campus for 2 years, then obviously have to live somewhere nearby. And they don’t have their Pell grant available for that.
OTOH, in PA, Temple’s now-defunct guaranteed full tuition merit scholarship covered tuition and fees and left the Pell available to help with R&B/books. So theoretically a student could use a Direct Loan and Pell and have not too much to pay after that.
I think this is really a marketing move more than a serious effort to make OSU affordable to low income students. OSU actually takes the student’s Pell and SEOG and Ohio grants before “closing the gap”.
Instate tuition and fees are only $10,700 this year. If OSU takes the full Pell at $6k-ish and the SEOG and Ohio grants, they may be kicking in close to nothing. They wrap any awarded merit up in that also, apparently.
The state up north definitely wins here, if not on the football field 
https://news.osu.edu/ohio-state-to-cover-full-cost-of-tuition-for-ohio-pell-families/
And don’t forget, the “state up north” definitely wins on the basketball court too (back-2-back B1G champs).
Umich with the humblebrag study LOL
Again, this article has a link to the actual study: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/11/opinion/college-gap-michigan-university.html.
If you read it, you’ll discover it’s a serious piece of scholarship. I don’t have a dog in the Michigan/Ohio fight (which seems to be mostly just for fun anyway), but like a lot of other people, I feel happy that young hard-working high achieving low income students are getting a chance at a top education.
Regarding the comment: “In some states, it’s likely a result of a decision to locate the flagship far away from the population centers (not the case in Michigan) where land was cheap when the U was being built.”
Remember that many/most public flagships are land grant U’s and here’s the language in the Morrill Act that first established land grant U’s:
“without excluding other scientific and classical studies and including military tactic, to teach such branches of learning as are related to agriculture and the mechanic arts, in such manner as the legislatures of the States may respectively prescribe, in order to promote the liberal and practical education of the industrial classes in the several pursuits and professions in life.”
Tough to study agriculture in the middle of a big city.
Remember that many/most public flagships (especially outside the East Coast) had as their main mission on establishment the development of agriculture education among their citizens.
^ True that, @PurpleTitan, but not so much among Big Ten schools. The Morrill Act establishing land-grant colleges was enacted in 1862. The University of Michigan was established in 1817, Indiana University in 1820, the University of Iowa in 1847, the University of Wisconsin-Madison in 1848, and the University of Minnesota in 1851—all well before the Morrill Act and the advent of land-grant colleges. Wisconsin and Minnesota later added land-grant status, but Michigan, Indiana, and Iowa have never been land-grant institutions; that status belongs to Michigan State, Purdue, and Iowa State, respectively., none of them true flagships.
Throw in the Eastern branch of the Big Ten—Rutgers (1766), Penn State (1855), and Maryland (1856)—and you get a total of 8 out of 11 Big Ten public flagships established before the land-grant era. UIUC (1867), the University of Nebraska-Lincoln (1869), and Ohio State (1870) are the only Big Ten public flagships established in their present locations as land-grant institutions.
Not so sure about that. The University of Minnesota’s ag school is on its Twin Cities campus, and it’s doing very well, thank you. Though it’s true it wasn’t always an urban location. Legend has it that when the Minnesota Territory was first established, decisions had to be made about the locations of three critical public institutions, and there were only three well-established towns of any note competing for them. As the oldest and largest at the time, Stillwater got first dibs. They took the prison, figuring it would provide secure, year-round employment. The legislature would meet only seasonally, but it was judged the next most important, so as the next largest town, Saint Paul claimed the legislature and the title of state capital. That left the fledgling university for the third-largest town, Saint Anthony, which later was renamed Minneapolis.
^ Upon further reflection, the pattern of state flagships not being land-grant institutions isn’t limited to the Big Ten. Here are some other flagship (land-grant) pairs not on the East Coast:
University of Alabama (Auburn); University of Mississippi (Mississippi State); University of Texas-Austin (Texas A&M); University of Oklahoma (Oklahoma State); University of Kansas (Kansas State); University of South Dakota (South Dakota State); University of North Dakota (North Dakota State); University of Montana (Montana State); University of Colorado-Boulder (Colorado State); University of Utah (Utah State); University of New Mexico (New Mexico State); University of Oregon (Oregon State); University of Washington (Washington State).
The other Michigan flagship MSU claims to be the pioneer land grant university. But it is interesting that while the origins were Agricultural it is in the state capital.
Regarding land grant universities, it looks like in some states, the land grant university became and remains seen as the “engineering flagship” distinct from the flagship in other senses: AL, IA, IN, MS, MT, NC, OR, SC, SD, VA.