<ol>
<li><p>What is your daughter’s background in the performing arts? Singer, dancer, actress? Does she have a lot of performance background? Roles, solos, etc.?</p></li>
<li><p>What other schools are you looking at? </p></li>
<li><p>What are the 3 MOST important things to you/your daughter in choosing a school?</p></li>
<li><p>Aside from College Confidential, what other resources are you using to help you and your daughter make your decision?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I would say her performance background is fairly strong given almost nonstop participation in local youth theatre for the past few years. I believe she is currently on her 14th production. She solos quite often with chorus, at church and in local shows. Given we are just starting this process I can’t say for certain what the top three criteria might be , but my thought would be a strong vocal program first but one that offers excellent acting/dancing training as well. And the opportunity to perform and learn the business aspects would be important considerations as well.</p>
<p>Well, all schools will tell you that they offer that. Whether they actually do to the degree that your D needs/wants it is another thing entirely. What other resources besides College Confidential are you using?</p>
<p>I guess I don’t understand why Egyptiandance is so anti AMDA. If you feel this strongly about AMDA then don’t apply, audition or attend. I think most kids who attend AMDA are aware that their units won’t transfer to other programs just as most BFA kids who leave a program often have to start over in a new BFA program. I don’t think AMDA is selling a bill of goods to anyone. Have you attended classes with AMDA students and had experience with their lack of commitment? Are you a student at AMDA and are trying to leave and your units won’t transfer? I don’t understand your animosity towards this program.</p>
<p>Hi, Bisou: I am not clear what you mean when you say “most BFA kids who leave a program often have to start over in a new BFA program”. That doesn’t make any sense to me. If you graduate with a BFA from a regionally accredited program, and you want to get an MFA or an MM or a Masters, your degree is good at ALL regionally accredited colleges throughout the country. </p>
<p>If you leave your BFA program in the middle, your new BFA program will take some but not all of your credits. Why? Because ALL degree programs have a MINIMUM of credits you have to do in THEIR program. But USC, for example, will take some of your graduate units from another program and apply it to their DMA program. That’s just standard practice.</p>
<p>What isn’t standard practice is for a degree that costs $160,000 to NOT be transferable to MOST programs throughout the country. Or say you only went for one year – that’s $35,000 of credits that are NOT transferable to your new program. </p>
<p>I think the question we should be asking is the one asked by mcpcwhite:</p>
<p>“WHY would anyone choose to apply to and attend a NON-ACCREDITED school for the study of musical theatre, when there are so many excellent, accredited programs out there?”</p>
<p>The dog in this fight is the dog (poor dog!) we should all have: the extremely high cost of education.</p>
<p>I don’t know what is motivating EgyptianDance, but I jumped in here to respond because I am a college professor at a regionally accredited university and I simply cannot understand why anyone would ever, under any circumstances, seek a degree at a non-accredited institution. There are so many excellent programs out there at real universities and conservatories (audition BFA and even non-audition BA programs) that this choice makes no sense to me, especially given the cost factor! </p>
<p>I think there is some attempt here to compare apples and oranges. While many who transfer into a BFA program from another one might find that their performance arts credits do not transfer…their general education requirements usually DO in fact transfer from one accredited institution to another. I’m not anti-AMDA - I actually thought it was an okay option as a two-year non-accredited program for certain people who did not plan to pursue a bachelor’s degree – and I know a couple of people in their program who seem to be enjoying it and believe they are getting good training. However, I can never wrap my head around the pursuit of a supposed four-year BFA that is not recognized by any accredited higher education program.<br>
The very fact that AMDA appears in the CC threads so often with a question mark (?) about its reputation should be a huge red flag to anyone.</p>
<p>EgyptianDance, I’m not sure where your interest in this topic stems from, but it comes across as you may be attending AMDA (or else have a friend who does) and may wish to transfer and the credits won’t transfer. I would like to think that anyone who enrolls in AMDA does so with their eyes open to this basic fact. It should not be a surprise somewhere down the line when they may wish to transfer. </p>
<p>I personally would not want my kid to attend AMDA. I see why some choose it, particularly the two year program in NYC…because anyone can get in; it’s in NYC; it’s non-academic in nature, etc. There are some people who want just that. And yes, I understand the issue that not all students are the motivated type, which is what you get when you attend any program or school where it is not selective to get in. I do believe that there are some talented people who go (I have seen some graduates perform), but I think there are far better options out there than AMDA, even for a two year non-degree program (such as CAP21 or Circle in the Square).</p>
<p>Hi, Soozievt: I would like to think that anyone who enrolls in AMDA has their eyes open too. Unfortunately, many students for whatever reason do NOT understand that their AMDA BFA is no good for a Master’s in any other field. Kids get really excited about their dream, and the parents haven’t done the research. AMDA is rather vague about the transferability of its degrees to non-theatre schools. </p>
<p>It reminds me of how awhile back people got really excited about those no-paper, low interest home loans, when they didn’t really understand what they were getting themselves into, and couldn’t really afford, which caused that whole mortgage meltdown thing. A whole bunch of laws were passed after that to make sure that borrowers REALLY understood what they were getting themselves into. </p>
<p>From AMDA’s own website: </p>
<p>“For those students who are interested in pursuing their Master of Fine Arts Degree after graduating from AMDA, here is a sampling of the Master’s Degree granting institutions which recognize our National Association of Schools of Theatre (NAST) BFA Program accreditation: Yale, Julliard [sic] School, Carnegie Mellon University, Columbia University, Brown University, The New School, University of North Carolina, University of Georgia, and Ohio University. All applicants are subject to the requirements of the individual schools to which they apply.”</p>
<p>Of course, a smart parent will do their homework, but you would be really surprised by how many people have NO CLUE until they graduate or leave the program that their credits DON’T transfer.</p>
<p>EgyptianDance, well, you can’t fault the school. They are what they are. If someone is going to plunk down thousands of dollars and devote two years of their life to the program (or four if going to the BFA one) at AMDA, it is their responsibility to see if it is an accredited school. </p>
<p>Anyway, you are also talking about two different things here. One is about transferring to another degree program during the course of the undergraduate years. In that case, many who enter college are not thinking about transferring. I mean even my own kids who went to selective schools were not discussing the idea of transferring when they were looking into schools to attend. </p>
<p>The other issue you are bringing up is going onto MFA programs. If anyone has such a goal in mind, that is something to really explore before entering an undergrad degree program. Also, many who obtain a BFA degree, which is a professional degree, do not go onto MFA programs, though SOME do. Often, people do either a BFA or a BA + MFA. I realize there are exceptions and my D has peers who have graduated from her BFA who are now in MFA degree programs. But most went onto professional work and no graduate programs once they got their BFA. </p>
<p>Anyway, AMDA is offering something that some people WANT. Again, I would not want to send my kid there but it fits what some desire. </p>
<p>Anyone entering college and anyone spending huge amounts of money should look into the very basics of what they are entering/buying. Any research on AMDA would turn up this every basic information of not being accredited.</p>
<p>Here is my little AMDA story from last spring…</p>
<p>I live in a rural state. One day, when I was about an hour from where I live, I stopped to get gas at a station in a little village. While I was pumping my gas, a young man was walking by with his dog. He remarked about the college decals on my car. We struck up a conversation. The young man was on a gap year. He had recently graduated from a small private school in the town where I had stopped for gas and it so happened I was coming from a friend’s house whose son attended the same small school and they knew one another. This young man went on to tell me he was going to go to college in the fall for musical theater. It was a funny coincidence and I said my own daughter graduated from a college MT program, and in fact, I work as a college counselor and have advised many who have pursued college theater programs. I asked him where he was going. He told me, “AMDA!” He was very excited about the opportunity. I didn’t want to rain on his parade since he was set with his enrollment. He then told me he had just made a website and would it be OK if he sent it to me. I told him it surely was fine. I made an assumption that he meant it was a professional actor type website and he just wanted input or something. I gave him my business card so he’d have my email. </p>
<p>A couple of weeks later, he emailed me the link to this site. The site was about him, but totally promotional in nature. It was for the sole purpose of trying to raise funds to send him to AMDA which he could not afford. He had videos, former teachers talking about him, etc. on the site. I was pretty put off by it, even though I could sympathize with his needing money to go to school. He was looking for donations to send him to college! I just am not into that. I think working to earn money or doing something like that for college is one thing, as opposed to asking strangers to contribute! But what really struck me was that he sorta “drank the Kool Aid!” His site extolled AMDA up and down as the top theater program in the country, yadda yadda, and how very selective it was and this opportunity came to him and how lucky he was to be selected for such top notch training, etc. I wanted to roll my eyes. I never got back to him because I really do not know him and wasn’t about to send him money to go to school when I have mucho loans to pay off my own kids’ schooling right now. I don’t know how this kid thought AMDA was tops and very selective but if he did not research programs that well, he read the promo stuff from AMDA and was hooked. I hope he is doing well.</p>
<p>What I’m about to say is a sweeping generalization, but since you are just starting the process, it is one you should consider: many of the students who go to AMDA are there because they have been rejected from other programs (either based on talent or academics) or else they simply don’t value the academics associated with an accredited college. I would say that with all the options for BFA, BM and BA programs in musical theatre, vocal performance and drama in both audition and non-audition schools AMDA is for many a last recourse. So either the students don’t want or can’t handle the academics associated with an accredited college degree, or they just don’t have the talent to make it into other programs. If it were a less expensive option, then I could see the program attracting people for that reason, but it is equal in cost to accredited colleges. As for the NYC or LA location, there are still a bunch of options to meet a range of needs at accredited colleges within commuting distance.</p>
<p>It is not the setting I would want to direct my high school student to. Especially since your D seems to have the academics for most college programs, if she is not accepted at other schools (especially with the dedication and advanced planning you are taking now), I would certainly re-consider MT before I would send a child to a program not recognized as college by many.</p>
<p>I think you will have much better options in the end, anyway :)</p>
<p>On answering the question of why would anyone want to attend AMDA, I have know of two kids who are there. These two kids are there for completely different reasons too. </p>
<p>One of the students is a girl I was acquainted with who went to the high school next to mine and graduated last year. This girl was very very talented, one of those kids who you look at and just know they’re going to do great things. From what I learned from our mutual friends and over Facebook, as we were only acquaintances, her only goal was NYC. She loved the city more than anything and wanted to be there as soon as possible. She also didn’t particularly care if she went to an actual college or not as she applied to mainly if not all conservatories such as CAP21, Circle in the Square, etc. At the moment she absolutely loves her program and posts about how wonderful it is all the time and how wonderful it is to be in NYC. Of course she could have applied to Pace or NYU, but this girl just wanted a short program that focused on performing 24/7 without any maths or sciences or things like that.</p>
<p>The other student I know is a boy who is starting there this spring. This boy graduated from my HS 2012 and was like the typical kid on CC. He did his research, applied to around 12-15 schools, went to Chicago Unifieds, the usual routine. As it’s a competitive field he only had a couple schools to pick from, but ended up at a small BFA and did very well in regards to performing and was the lead in the spring musical. Where it all went wrong was the people at the school. The upperclassmen were very rude to the freshmen MT, especially ones that beat out upperclassmen for roles. He had heard that a lot of students transferred after the freshman year but didn’t know why, just assumed juries, until this type of treatment happened to him. The upperclassmen tried to pass it off as a right of passage that they all go through and when they were upperclassmen, but he didn’t want to be treated that way and left the school. Unfortunately by the time he decided to do this his freshman year had ended and he didn’t see going back as an option. He didn’t want to transfer into another program starting over as a freshman in what would be his junior year so this fall he decided to audition for AMDA to be there in the spring. He also heard of the bad rep but decided he really wanted a conservatory after experiencing a year of college. I can’t speak for why he didn’t audition for different conservatories, but that was the one he picked.</p>
<p>By no means am I trying to be a rep for AMDA here, but I do believe that every school can be the right fit for the right kind of person. It’s definitely not the right program for most people, myself included as a college degree is important to me, but I hope that this can help people who are maybe considering the school to form their own opinions.</p>
<p>You will often see these 2 phrases about AMDA on CC that sound as if they are kind of apologies of the program:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You get out of it what you put into it. We were talking about what that means earlier in this thread.</p></li>
<li><p>It is the “right fit” for me, my son or my daughter. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>These are not phrases you hear repeatedly on CC or elsewhere about any other decent accredited MT program, especially one that costs almost as much as Juilliard. </p>
<p>It is SO easy for parents and students to get caught up in the excitement of NYC and Hollywood that they don’t do their homework. And it’s easy to be swayed by anecdotes of very young students loving their programs when they have nothing to compare it to. </p>
<p>By the way, I am no dissing the actual training at AMDA. Some (some!) of it may be quite good. It’s the overall environment of a school that fills its ranks with as many kids as possible for whom AMDA is, as USkoolfish suggests, a “last recourse” school. </p>
<p>Even CAP21 advertises itself as a program for those who ALREADY have a B.A. Here is a quote from their website:</p>
<p>VoiceTeacher on this site has the right idea: take a look at this long post on considering the options if you don’t get into really good programs. Like taking a year off, getting some really great top notch private training, and then reapplying. Better than ending up with $160,000 in school loans with a regionally UNACCREDITED degree, from a school whose reputation may be “last recourse”. </p>
<p>I agree with everything uskoolfish posted in #32. Also, FutureMillie describes a friend who just wanted to be in NYC, etc. and that is one of the things I mentioned too. I think AMDA does draw those who don’t want academics, want to be in NYC, and in some cases, didn’t get into other MT programs. There are some who simply want AMDA as a first choice. I do think that AMDA fits what some are looking for. It would not be my choice. But obviously, they have no problem filling the program. And some who attend are quite talented and some who graduate have done well. There’s something out there for everyone in terms of training and it’s different strokes for different folks. Hopefully, people have done their homework. </p>
<p>EgyptianDance, by the way, very few people have a loan for $160,000 for four years of college. It is not typical to borrow the ENTIRE amount to attend. We have loans for my kids’ schooling but not to cover the entire amount. As well, there were scholarships, aid, etc. I have rarely heard of anyone who borrowed the amount equivalent to the full price tag. </p>
<p>EgyptianDance, are you a student or parent? I am just wondering why you care about AMDA to this degree. Many of us have opinions about whether we would send our kid there (I would not, for example), but are not on a mission to diss the school. I’m wondering what your experience has been with AMDA that you care this much to “warn” others about it. You seem to be skirting that question.</p>
<p>Thank you Soozie…several of us have asked him/her and can’t seem to get an answer. My feeling is this person has never attended AMDA or had any real experience with the courses or the students. I agree there are programs out there that fit a need for all kinds of kids. And I am thankful for that.</p>
<p>AMDA has a lot of disgruntled former students. That’s just a fact. For what it is it’s very expensive and the whole BFA part of the program is a little misleading. The selectivity is also misleading, although apparently there are some people not accepted. Everyone we know who auditioned got in with some kind of scholarship but also needed a bunch of money to attend. Hence, fundraisers. I wonder if they encourage this since Soozie also mentioned fundraising to attend because of how amazingly talented they say you are. I don’t know, it just feels a little off to me. That said I know a few people who attended. Two graduated and are working at a fairly low-level but working occasionally. One dropped out after a miserable year and is now married and back to doing community theater. Now, I’m sure you could say that for any program out there including the top schools, so it’s kind of a whatever. Also, none that we know received a degree. Apparently that is possible somehow but it’s a little complicated and doesn’t happen often I don’t think.</p>
<p>We also know a couple of students who are currently attending the L.A. program and seem quite happy there and we know one graduate who is working in regional theatre. I have come to the firm conclusion that it is not a good fit for my daughter. It is important to both of us that she attend a fully accredited program and she does want to have a true college experience and degree. AMDA seems more along the lines of a trade school which may be an excellent fit for some, but not for my daughter. However, it does appear some very talented people emerge from the program and find success so clearly it is working well for some of its students and that’s a good thing.</p>
<p>bisouu, I disagree. I believe that EgyptianDance has a prior association with AMDA and has posted in an effort to “warn” others. It may be with good intentions (trying to be helpful) or sometimes people post in this manner as a vendetta against a school for some reason. It is always suspect when a new member posts ONLY to diss a school and all their posts are on this subject and they make no other contributions to the site. I know CC doesn’t allow that. I hope EgyptianDance can also post some positive contributions with some helpful suggestions since he/she is apparently in this field and may have something to offer.</p>
<p>I agree that there are some talented people who emerge from AMDA. One observation I have is when my D graduated from NYU/Tisch, she was selected to be in Broadway Rising Stars, a concert at the Town Hall Theater in Manhattan, with about 16 selected recent MT graduates, presenting them to the public and the industry. There were recent grads from several programs in it. A few were from AMDA. Those performers were quite good. Keep in mind that it was sorta the cream of the crop, so to speak. My D has also said she has met talented people who went to AMDA. I have sometimes seen AMDA in the bios of people in playbills in NYC. Of course, it is hard to say which came first, the chicken or the egg and if these are merely very talented people or if it is a result of attending AMDA. I also think AMDA has some weak students who use it as a fallback option if they don’t get into a college program. </p>
<p>I agree with others that AMDA does not seem like a good fit for your daughter.</p>
we should all have: the extremely high cost of education.</p>